Replies

1. 
   Sgian_Dubh | May 12, 2001 02:18am | #1

   *
   Tough to do that. Really the best option is usually to cut out the sapwood altogether. The problem is really this; if you stain the sapwood to match the colour of the heartwood at the original finishing stage, and I'm assuming natural finish, no staining that is, then the heartwood will darken and the sapwood stands out again as being 'different'- lighter. If you try and predict what the heartwood will darken to, and you stain to this colour then it takes maybe several years for the heartwood to tone down naturally to what the stained sapwood is, and while this happens the sapwood looks wrong. Eventually, the heartwood will match- you hope, but it will continue to darken, and the sapwood will stand out again. Both heartwood and sapwood are affected by by oxidisation and the effects of ultra violet (UV) rays, i.e., natural sunlight, but the result always seems to be out of sync.

   About the best way to reduce this 'out of sync' thing seems to be to use pigment stains because they act like thin paint, i.e., they block out the effect of sunlight, oxidisation and so on and tend to disguise the natural grain patterns. Apart from this, as before, I've tended to find that cutting off the sapwood altogether works best. There are exceptions to this as you would expect. There are times where sapwood can be used to striking effect, such as in book matching a panel, or highlighting a corner of a structure by the use of sapwood.

   I suspect I've confused you more than you hoped for, but it has to be said that there are so many subtle choices that can be employed for aesthetic reasons that I feel a blanket 'do this' answer is not appropriate. Sliante, RJ.

1. 
   ian_cummins | May 12, 2001 03:27pm | #2

   *Sgian, Your reply confirms my suspicion that there is no magic cure, otherwise I'm sure it would be well publicized by the maker.I've tried mixing various oil stains with muddy results. Are these the same as the "pigmented" stains you mention? Is there a pre-mixed color or brand of the pigmented stain that you prefer or do you mix your own? I have had situations where sapwood could be used to advantage but I have two new pieces of casework where I just didn't see the sapwood until the heartwood darkened. Now I have some unpleasant streaks that just don't work with the pieces. At present they have a thin wash coat of shellac on them. Your suggestions are appreciated.Ian

1. 
   Sgian_Dubh | May 12, 2001 08:40pm | #3

   *Ian, All oil stains I've come across are pigment types. There might be exceptions, but I haven't come across any. It's easy to tell if you're using a pigment stain; the can has a layer of gunk in the bottom that needs to be stirred in. I've never made up my own oil stains. I just buy a can or cans of the stuff and use it as is, or mix to achieve an effect I'm after. If I think the job might be repeated I make a note of the brand, the name, what proportions I mixed, etc., for future reference. I've found the manufacturers to be pretty reliable regarding consistency of colour and so on. Dye stains on the other hand I nearly always mix myself from scratch.I'm not sure I'm able to give you best advice, finishing being one of my weakest areas, but I think a common approach is to mix up what's known by some as a 'wash', and by others as a 'glaze' in a carrying medium, such as mineral spirits, and the basic stain you buy can be used as a start. Universal tinting colours can be added to adjust the colour, and the stain becomes ever closer to paint. Once you've got the colour you want the technique seems to be to literally try and 'paint' out the sapwood using small brushes. As before, finishing is a weakness for me, so take my advice for what it is.If no-one with real expertise comes in behind me, and you need an answer fairly soon, I suggest you search the archives here, and perhaps pose your question at Jeff Jewitt's forum Homestead Finishing I'm pretty sure he has archives on his forum too, and again you could do a search before posing a question. Jeff used to contribute quite often here, but I suspect he's pretty busy keeping an eye on his own forum nowadays. Here's one archived discussion on Cherry for example. Sliante, RJ.

1. 
   Don_Stephan | May 13, 2001 04:26pm | #4

   *As always, Sgian has provided excellent information for you. I'd suggest you get Jeff Jewitt's new book, Great Wood Finishes, for an excellent presentation of dyes versus stains (and all of the various materials and techniques used in finishing). If you want to hide the sapwood now, Medium Brown and/or Reddish Brown in Jeff's Homestead Finishing line of tints and dyes should work, but I expect Sgian's discussion of the effects of aging is correct. A heavy layer of color on top of the wood is the best way to hide variations, but then you might as well use birch and save money.

1. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | May 16, 2001 03:47pm | #5

   *Ian,Click here: Danford C. Jennings "Cherry Blotching?" 3/30/01 7:19amThis is what I have been doing for over a quarter of a century as a professional.Dano

2. 
   ian_cummins | May 16, 2001 11:07pm | #6

   *Dano, I had already tried the #235 Minwax Cherry but I applied it rather quickly. I'll try again with your method of application but I need to claify something. Are you talking about localized staining of just the sapwood or staining the entire piece? I would prefer not to stain the heartwood.Incidentally, like you, I'm bewildered by all the discussion of cherry blotching. To me, this natural characteristic is what gives cherry depth and warmth.

3. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | May 17, 2001 01:53am | #7

   *Ian,I stain the entire piece, this will give a "uniform" tone. You also could try "ragging" on the stain avoiding the heartwood and/or blending it into the heartwood. Experiment with scrap first.Dano

4. 
   ian_cummins | May 18, 2001 11:54pm | #8

   *Dano, I just put the Minwax cherry on a small cabinet using your procedure. It did a beautiful job of blending the abrupt tone changes. Thanks a lot for the info.Ian

5. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | May 19, 2001 02:10am | #9

   *Ian,You are welcome, glad to be of some help.Dano