Replies

1. 
   Kevin | Feb 12, 2007 10:32am | #1

   Cherry sapwood isn't going to darken as much or as quickly as the heartwood will. As far as I know the same applies to all woods which darken with exposure to UV and oxidation. If you can dye the sapwood to approximate the heartwood then I would imagine it'd be a good long while before you'd noticed a difference between the sapwood and heartwood. This is what the big furniture factories do. But then they follow that up with a wipe stain, usually on top of a washcoat of some sort to lock the sapwood dye in.

   But given enough time and exposure to UV/oxygen the heartwood will darken faster than the sapwood. If the dye is dark enough it can mask this, at least until the heartwood reaches a point where it's darker than the dye, at which point you would again begin to see the difference. The dye doesn't darken. So the most it can do is mask the difference.

   I suppose you could do something similiar if you're really wanting to stick with dye. Get the sapwood dyed till it looks like the heartwood and then spray on a toner made of dye to get to your final color.

   Now steamed Cherry would, I think, darken a little bit more evenly. Steaming it causes some of the coloration from the heartwood to impregnate the sapwood and that same substance is what darkens via UV and oxidation. So steamed sapwood should darken faster than unsteamed sapwood (I think!) because it's got more of what is going to darken. But it still won't darken as fast as the heartwood.

   
   

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   Edited 2/12/2007 2:39 am ET by Kevin

1. 
   Woodsie | Feb 13, 2007 04:40am | #2

   Kevin, thanks for the reply.  It sounds like the simplist solution is to stay away for using the sapwood in conjunction with the heartwood.  You make a good point about the dyed heartwood not showing a contrast from the dyed sapwood until it reaches the point where it gets darker than the dye.  Im just thinking...won't the dyed heartwood just continue to become darker right from the beginning? It seems to me that I've made some pieces solely from heartwood that were dyed yet have been getting progressively darker.

   Woodsie

1. 
   Kevin | Feb 13, 2007 05:21am | #3

   won't the dyed heartwood just continue to become darker right from the beginning?

   Yes it will. And that's the crux of why no matter what you do short of painting over it or staining it darker than it would otherwise ever get on it's own there will come a day eventually when the heartwood will be darker than either the sapwood or the dye/stain.

   The heartwood will continue to become darker right from the beginning whether you dye it or not. That is unless it's kept in an oxygen-free unlight room. But of course that would be rather pointless.

   That said... understand that Cherry heartwood will darken much, much faster via UV than it will via oxidation. So keeping something made from Cherry away from UV sources and finishing it with something that's going to inhibit oxidation (most film forming finishes - lacquer, poly, varnish, etc) will give you the very slowest possible rate of darkening.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Feb 13, 2007 03:19pm | #4

   Cherry is lovely, but there is no escaping the heartwood sapwood problem.  Dying and toning the differences away is only a second rate solution, in my opinion.  This is one reason that amateur builders can beat the pants off of mid and lower-range factories that economize on lumber (and the labor to select and match the wood).  There are two first class solutions:  (1) Only let heartwood show, or (2) make the difference work for you by using the pattern of light and dark in the design of the piece.  Solution (3), not quite as good, solution is to use soft maple and dye and stain it to look something close to cherry.  I'd choose number three rather than heavily toning genuine cherry to disguise the sapwood heartwood difference. 

1. 
   Kevin | Feb 13, 2007 06:56pm | #5

   I absolutely agree with you, Steve. And the situation on the lumber supply end is getting progressively worse. It used to be that you had to deal with a little bit of sapwood on the edge of an occasional board, which was easy enough to trim off. Now days you're often lucky if a board has a sizable strip of heartwood down the center, the rest is all sapwood. And the steamed Cherry is even worse, IMO. It doesn't do justice to either the heartwood or the sapwood.

   I'll heartily ditto all three of your suggestions, although I personally would use Alder instead of Maple on #3. I know it's softer, but it also makes an exceptionally good Cherry substitute with the right color stain. It accepts color much more readily than Maple does and the grain is almost a deadringer for Cherry.

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Feb 13, 2007 08:32pm | #6

   I wouldn't argue with alder. 

3. 
   Woodsie | Feb 20, 2007 02:28am | #8

   Steve, sorry for the delay in responding to your response.  I appreciate your taking the time to help with my question.  Your three options are duely noted and are all good options.  I think that I will simply stay away from using any sapwood in this project, but will also use a UV varnish just in case that I miss a sliver of sapwood here or there.

   Woodsie

2. 
   Woodsie | Feb 20, 2007 02:22am | #7

   Kevin, I've been away from my computer for awhile.  Thanks so much for your good comments.  I think I've made the decision to just stay away from using any sapwood in this project.

   Woodsie