I am trying to help a friend who has an authentic hand-carved Chinese chest which will not open. He believes that his parents had it shipped from China around 1930. As a child he remembers it as never being locked and the key is nowhere to be found. There are some very old family photos in the chest and he would like to open it to get the photos out.
His mother passed away recently and he had the chest shipped to him and now it will not open. It was packed well and not damaged in any way that he can tell. The shippers said that they did turn it upside down, but did nothing else to it. My friend knows that it was not locked when it was being packed because he was there. So, somehow, the lock was activated during the shipping. Thus the mystery.
I have attached three images which may help someone decipher this puzzle.
IMAGE ONE
This image depicts the entire front of the chest. I attached two small pieces of white paper which signify where two 1/4-inch (6-7mm) brass pins are located. The lock itself has two (2) pins between each half of the locking mechanism.
IMAGE TWO
This image simply shows that the upper portion of the chest top was made separately from the rest of the chest. It appears that this piece was slid into place via mortice and tenon joinery. It is not dovetailed and this same joinery can be seen in the back of the chest as well. My friend cannot recall whether this moveable (maybe) piece also served as the inside of the chest when opened. He is not inclined to attempt moving this piece for fear of damaging the chest.
IMAGE THREE
This image is of the lock only. The hasp has been positioned in the open position for the taking of these images. The hasp has two holes which fit over two brass pins which have a horizontal hole through each. My friend believes a brass pin was slid through these pins locking the hasp in place. This pin has been lost as well.
Needless to say, any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated.
Phillip
Replies
Maybe the chest is not actually locked. Do you think the lid might just be stuck due to uneven contraction because of change in MC from the move? Is there any play in the lid?
Ben,Yes, there is some play when you attempt to open the chest. This results in the sound of the brass pin(s) grabbing hold of the top preventing it from being opened. It is a metallic 'click' that you hear. We have no idea how these pins operate. The brass pins are perpendicular to the top so they must be spring-loaded and notched to grab onto a brass plate embedded in the chest top. This is our guess, anyway.The pins could also rotate to fasten the chest closed. Again, just a guess.
Has a locksmith been consulted? He may be able to pick it, also, a lot of old locks like seem to use a similar key.
Phillip, I have a chest thats very similar to yours in size and carvings. Its in mahogany. Can you send me a close up of the lock. Mine is in storage until I finish the room where it will reside. I have to go by there Saturday and I will be happy to stop in and see if the key is inside or in the other chests. Mine is unlocked, or was, I hope!Ron
Ron,Funny you ask that question. I had the same thought just after I took the original images. However, I called back and he had left for work. I will call him in a few minutes and I will get that taken care of.I appreciate your interest.Phillip
Ron,Okay! I now have the images of the lock that you requested. I am including five (5) which I hope will help you - and us.Thank you for all your help.Phillip
Phillip
I did some repair on a jewelry box for a neighbor this summer. The hardware looks REAL similar if not exactly the same. In their case though, the hardware had become bent - both the hasp portion as well as the hinges. So I had to take the hardware off to flatten everything out and then re-install it. If you cant pick the lock, removing it is probably a lot easier than it looks. I was able to get the pins in the hardware extracted by putting a chisel (dont use your best one) under the hardware and very gently prying all the way around until you get it to lift a little. Then you should be able to get at the head of the pins with a pair of pliers and pull them straight out. For $0.79 I was able to find matching brass pins at a local hardware store, so if you scar up a couple badly, they're easily replaced.If you build it he will come.
Douglas,The images do not show this very well - they were not intended to -, but there are actually some very small brass screws attaching the brass face plates to the chest proper. I asked my friend about that and he said that the screws simply are for holding the brass plates on. He said they have nothing to do with the locking mechanism whatsoever. However, this puzzle still has a way to go before we solve it so the screws may be coming out regardless.At the present, my friend was still recovering from the loss of his father, now his mother just passed away. And if that was not enough, his wife just fell and broke her arm this week. But, somehow, he has the fortitude to trudge ahead with a smile on his face. I know those pictures locked in that chest mean a lot to him, so I'm doing what I can to help him get it open. He would never resort to destroying this chest because it is a family heirloom, one which he grew up with. So, figuring how to get it open without damaging it is our goal. And I know that this cannot happen without all the help each of you is contributing so freely.Thanks again for your comments.
Phillip Anthony
Well, there calling for snow tomorrow so I went by the storage facility today and looked at the chest.Description of mine. The lower case is carved completely, every square inch. 3/8" thick and applied to the inner casework 3/8" thick. All the sides are applied in the same manor.
The edge where the top and bottom come together (at the latch) has a pair of tapered dowel pins 3/16" diameter and 3/8" long, located about 6-8" either side of center. The pins drop into a flat steel piece screwed to the lower case top horizontal edge.
The four corners are also held more securely with flat 90 degree metal brackets.The lock as you called it is almost identical to your pics. The two round protrusions on mine are for a single long or a pair of padlocks. There is no movement to them except there a little loose maybe because several of the screws are missing and the base plate is just as loose.There is NO visible interior lock housing or mechanism or any evidence that there ever was any means of securing the lid to the base with a keyed latch. It appears that security for the chest was solely for a padlock or other external horizontal rod type device. There is a device located on the Lt. rear to hold the lid open. The hinges are quite small. This may be because they are mounted on the top horizontal edge and screwed into thin 3/8 panels. There is a strong smell of cedar.I went to the office and borrowed a small screwdriver, I went back and removed the several remaining screws. There is no internal mechanism, Never was any!Inside I did however find a small chest that I don't remember. It was carved the same way and style, 12x8x8" some type of cedar.If I can be of any additional assistance please let me know.Ron Christensen
Peabody, Massachusetts
Edited 2/24/2006 1:43 pm ET by Ron01960
Ron, Thank you for all that you have done. I have a few questions. I hope I'm not imposing too much on you."The edge where the top and bottom come together (at the latch) has a pair of tapered dowel pins 3/16" diameter and 3/8" long, located about 6-8" either side of center."Q1. Are you saying that there are two pins directly at the lock and then one about 6-8" on either side of the lock? If so, that is pretty much what we have here. In one of the original images I posted, I used small pieces of paper to indicate where the outer pins are located on Jan's (my friend) chest.Q2. And, when you say "dowel pins', are yours made of wood or are they brass?"The pins drop into a flat steel piece screwed to the lower case top horizontal edge."Q3. Could you tell how these pins were attached to the chest lid?The last two images of the lock which I posted show that the keyhole on Jan's chest is located directly between the two protruding pins. So, his chest definitely was locked with a key.I did look at the back of Jan's chest and noted that there were three (3) small brass hinges attaching the chest lid to the chest proper. And, going by your description, both chests seem to be identical in this respect.Someone suggested that the top may just be wedged shut but that is not the case at all. There is some play but when you lift up on the chest lid you definitely hear a metal-to-metal "thud", so it is definitely, somehow, locked.One last thing. I attached a very crude drawing that should just download to your desktop. My PDF reader opens it up. If this does not work for you, don't go to a lot of trouble trying to do so. It would just help me explain what I could see at each of the outer brass pins.If you can open the drawing (or not), what I have attempted to show is this - if I can explain it adequately. At the edge of the bottom half of the chest, where it meets the upper half of the chest, the wood of the LOWER half is tapered somewhat like a 'V' with the brass pin in the center. This 'V' is only visible if the top is up about 3/16-inch or so. It is not visible with the chest shut tightly. I hope this makes some sense to you. I thought that this was very odd, but that is all that I could see. Both outer pins were the same.Ron, I really appreciate all that you have done on our behalf. This weekend, I will spend some time with Jan to see if we can make some progress on all of this. All of this is very fascinating, and frustrating at the same time. What is more puzzling that any thing else is how it became locked during the journey from Washington state to Chicago. It could be an omen of sorts. Who knows?Anyway, my friend, thank you very much for all you have don.Phillip
Here goes. I looked at your pics again. the paper strips are located about the same place the metallic pins, tapered dowels were on mine.I originally over looked the key hole you have, I don't have any key hole. The brass work is virtually the same except for the key hole. The pins are probably brass because they were dark like old brass.The pins were attached to a small strip, two screws held the strip in place.I couldn't open it up because its stored under a table, etc and I was alone, so I couldn't lift it up very high.The lid was off the other small box, so I lifted both pieces out and I have them in the garage. It looks like the short screws couldn't hold very well in the soft cedar.
You must have the high end model if it has a lock and I'm convinced yours does.The key is probably very primitive maybe a coat hanger could be manipulated a little,like an old skeleton key. My foreman is a lock collector. He was always looking for a challenge. He said, "you had to think like the key". If I had a key I would send it to you. Better still I'll have Larry over for breakfast and show him the pics.I bet he has a key that will do the job.Later, Ron
Ron,I sure appreciate all that you're doing. Tomorrow I will have a visit with Jan and I will let him read your posts. If he's able and has the time, we will also look a bit closer at his chest. I have very basic lock picking skills, but you never know ...I will report back tomorrow sometime. I'd like to ask Larry how the chest could have locked itself like this one did. Maybe he has another theory on this. If he needs more images, let me know.Thanks again,
Phillip
Please post.. I'd like to know the outcome... I was trying to understand what you have but I do not have anything that reads a eps file.. You on a MAC?
Will, I couldn't read it either.They should be attempting it over the weekend. Opening it, that is.Ron
Yes, I'm on a Mac. An eps file can be opened by Adobe Reader. I downloaded it from my own post to see if it would work and it did. Anyway, Jan was not available today so no progress has been made. As I told someone else on this thread, he had just lost his father a few month ago, now his mother passes, and just last week this wife fell and broke her upper arm. Today when we spoke on the phone he was buying groceries for his mother-in-law. I have no idea how he keeps going. I'd be locked up in a rubber room by now.But, yes, as soon as we get together, we'll try to get the lock open using Ron's idea of picking the lock. Should be interesting.Later.
Sorry - From the pics they looked like the same escutcheon pins as on the one I repaired. Good luck.If you build it he will come.
They look very similar. I'll get back to you late weekend.Ron
PHIL, That lock looks like the key is a barrel key
They are very simple to open if you can obtain a blank barrel keythat enters the key way .
Ive opened several of similiar locks But not chinese. The trick is to mark the key's 'bit' ( the business end)With soot from a candle or magic marker ink
Slide th blank in to the keyway and remove the blank Wherever the soot is disturbed, it will show as a shiny spotUsing a small flat 'warding' file, file down a bit of metal in that area. Re ink and try again, If you look into the keyhole with a small flashlight, you'll see an obstruction (Called a 'ward') The ward prevents the key fom reaching the back of the lock
By inking/trying and filing the key, a bit at a time ,the key will reach the back and stop
Now, You must re ink and TWIST the blank left and right and carefully remove the blank. These marks indicate where to file another ward to allow the blank to turn File a little and check again after a while the blank will start to turn but not fully Observ which direction the key turns. Clockwise or anti clockwise? Keep filing till the key will rotate all the way, but no more than is nesesary
There's a website I frequent when buying lesther called Brettuns Village Leathers who has many of those barrel blanks,as he also sells trunk locks and trunk hardware.I notised ib your attached photos, some flat headed screws securing the escutcheon to the lock . Try to gently unscrew these screws. If they refuse to turn, don't force them.
They are probably 'peened over' at the backSteinmetz.
Edited 2/26/2006 12:11 am ET by Steinmetz
Steinmetz,Thank you, sir, for your comments.I have made a hard-copy of your message for Jan to take a look at. I also will take a look at the website link that you provided as well.He has not called today. We spoke briefly yesterday and he told me that he would call when he got a break. As you may (or may not) know by now, he lost his father around Christmas, now his mother just passed, and last week his wife fell and broke her upper arm. Yesterday he told me she now has the flu as well. So, he has a full plate to say the least.I am very grateful for all the information and advice that you and everyone else has provided so freely. I promise, that as soon as he calls I will be over there with all of this information and report back to all of you with the results.Regards,
Phillip Anthony
authentic hand-carved Chinese chest ..
If really important to you I'd get a LOCKSMITH!
OR''''' get some little kids and tell them "YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO LOOK AT OR OPEN THIS box!"
COME BACK IN A HOUR!
Edited 2/23/2006 9:27 pm by WillGeorge
Phil, Attached is the website to inquire about the key blanks
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