Folks,
Please look at the pics of this carving, which is in this case about 8 inches diameter.
I am doing some work on this furniture, which was made in Hong Kong about40years ago. Each piece has this symbol carved into the timber, which is Papua New Guinea Rosewood (Pterocarpus Indicus).
I have 2 questions:-
1)What does it mean? I feel it must have meaning-it’s Chinese!
2) How is it done? Looks too uniform to be done solely by hand carving. If done by machine then I am unable to find any tool marks. Each item has it in a proportionate size. Can’t be something working like a rosette tool because there is no centre mark and the design precludes this.
Will George, if no answer is found , next time you go to China, your mission should you choose to accept, is to solve this mystery!
Replies
Phillip, the cat did it.......
Try a book called "Chinese Domestic Furniture" by Gustave Ecke. He has been dead 15 years or so but I had the good fortune to meet his wife in Honolulu 10 years ago. He explains a lot of the common Chinese diagrams and has meticulously drawn every joint used in each piece of furniture in the book, an extensive number. You may find what you are looking for and a great volume to own. Aloha, mike
Mike, thanks, now you have got me really interested when you say the book has explanations of Chinese joints.
The furniture I have been working on shows great workmanship and it is difficult to see how some of the joints have been made. Also, tops on small tables , for example , are not fixed to frames in any visible way.
All very cunning, and worth getting to grips with.
P.S. the cat is one of those that can get into anything.
Edited 7/23/2005 4:22 am ET by Philip Marcou
I have no idea!..
I doubt if I could find out even in China. It is almost impossible to find any woodworking shops in china (at least in the places I have been).
I have found some but in all of the places I have been my guide could not understand my questions OR the shop keepers response.. LOL.. Leaving one area and going to another and the guide seems lost speaking with others. Sort of like me going to Alabama...
They have so many different languages (?) and the terms we 'round eyed' woodworkers use have no meaning to a translator.
My best guess is that it has no special meaning. From what I have learned most items with 'meaning' are things found in real life like animals, plants, fictional animals, and people.
As I recall from looking at MANY pieces of old Chinese furniture almost all were hand carved and use square/angle/curve geometric forms. I 'think' most of the forms used are found in things seen in nature. At least what is seen without a electron microscope. Other than curves, I no not recall seeing many furniture carvings that were circular in design. Round items yes (like backs of chairs), but not many found in the ornate carvings and trim.
"Looks too uniform to be done solely by hand carving. If done by machine then I am unable to find any tool marks."
Just me, BUT I think I see what looks like tool marks. In fact, like a small flat bottomed router bit track! (By the way.. Nice clear picture!)
I remember watching a old man carving in China.. It was a plaque with a design sort of like what you have pictured. He started out with a 'stamp and ink pad'.. Pressed it on the wood. Carved all the wood away except in the design area so it was above the surface of the stick about 1/4 inch. Then he hand carved the recesses just shy of the edges of the design. He took this and put it in a hand press with the design on it in reverse.. Yes.. It was sort of hand 'forged'!... LOL... After pressing on it (more like pressing and grunting) for awhile I noticed steam coming out! Dang... How impressive it was... After it dried a bit he scraped the design with some items from another collection of his hand tools. Then tossed it in a pile of others and grabbed another hunk of wood... We waved 'goodbye' and went to eat.... Now that is ANOTHER story in China...
Next time in China.. Well, if my daughter decides to get me another grandbaby...
I'm with Will. Looks mostly machine made (although the inside corners would have ti be finished by hand).
There are a number of books on Chinese and Japanese joinery, Philip. Do a Google search - you'll probably pick some up used from Amazon.
Malcom
0.06% of the world's people are Kiwis
Hello again Mook.
I have seen that symbol before, and think I have it in a book of religious icons. Unfortunately, the book was not in the shelf where I thought it should be. If I can find it I will get back to you if nobody else can answer this for you first.
I think I can see evidence in the glare from your flash in the background between the beads that it was done with a router, so I hope you didn't think you were buying an antique.
that it was done with a router, so I hope you didn't think you were buying an antique....
LOL.. Good one.. 40 years old.. Dang.. I must me a museum piece then..
By the way.. I saw on my last trip (this year).. Hunan China in a Silk Embroidery and Lace factory. You talk about hand-made craftsmanship!
Yes this old man went to see Embroidery.. It was wonderful! My daughter had a hard time gettin' me out of the place.. (I was really just lookin' at the older women...)
Anyway, They put the really expensive stuff on/in wooden carved frames.. I could not find out what wood it was. I asked and got strange looks?....
A old lady was carving some of the rails with what looked like a old spinning wheel that was horizontal and foot pedal operated.. Looked like a solid carbide 1/16 inch router bit in the old drill chuck... Really nice work... I thought of Roy Underhill....
Thanks for your responses.
I have ordered G. Ecke's book, which may tell me the meaning of the symbol, but will also detail those joints.
Bearing in mind that this stuff was made in H.Kong in the fifties I can't see that a router or mill type tool was used- also there are definitely no telltale cutter marks. They may have used an "old woman's tooth" type device to flatten the bottom though. The marks some people have observed were carelessly made by me and were accentuated when I sprayed on some shellac-these will go when I rub down-the owner wants a sheen catalysed lacquer finish.(!)
The uniform cross section of that beading and the general accuracy make me inclined to think like Hammer-some sort of 'carving guide' was used, with dedicated chisels fitting into grooves.And probably a dedicated symbol carver chap also...
Will-are you telling us you went to a lace factory?-not a lingerie factory??
I think Hammer got it.. "shou" for longevity.. I have looked around and found it can be very styleized but has that general form..
not a lingerie factory??.. I looked but could not find any .. Dang..
The U.S. Army gave me a free trip to the Far East in 1953, so that is probably where I have seen this design. Memories are fading, so I can't be more specific. A Google turned up a few sites:
http://www.isymbolz.com/spiritual/confucianism/cf004.htm
http://www.neurosurgery-online.com/pt/re/neurosurg/abstract.00006123-200208000-00043.htm;jsessionid=CjnRxbTsGqK6orMgY8b1wNdmNd6DvFPBYBihrjgEU53oAADwdIxs!654213914!-949856032!9001!-1
Roy
Thanks Roy,
I think it must be something to do with longevity, as several people have come up with this and the t shirt emblem is similar.
Deep Brain Neurosurgery? Mind boggling....
Mook,
Don't get too involved with all these far Eastern cultures.
Before you know it, you may get a commission to manufacture a wooden symbol, in true spirit with the Japanese "Hounen Matsuri".
Be sure to post it in the gallery, may this happen.
http://www.yamasa.org/japan/english/destinations/aichi/tagata_jinja.html
Willie,
This place is being invaded by lots of Chinese gentlemen with heaps of money-maybe they can be converted to improved versions of their own furniture <G>
What is Japanese "Hounen Matsuri"?
I can't tell you, as I may get into big trouble here with the correct language.
If you open, the bottom center picture in the link I gave you, it will give you an idea, they take this real serious.
In English, we would just refer to Mr. Dick Wood.
Hope that helps.
Willie,
That is hilarious. Have now learned not to "have a quick read" of my mail before going to work....All is now quite clear.
I must say I am pleased that they chose a lowly timber like Cypress for the ,er, effigy. However, here, this timber is regarded with reverence-I wander if there is a connection.*
I now understand your caveat regarding this type of commission, but would not turn down the work at this stage, provided the client provided his own timber and did all sanding himself and understood that the price would be in direct proportion to the volume of the work, measured in cubic millimetres.
I take it you have been on the tour, and partook heartily in the foodstuffs, including sweets.
Have a good day.
*It grows to a huge size in this neck of the woods.
Philip, the symbol is the Confucianism "shou" for longevity. I've seen some books on traditional Japanese joinery and the joints they used are amazing. No glue or pegs, just complex interlocking keys and what we might call dovetail shapes. I doubt that your piece was done with a machine but a template may have been used to guide the cutting. It looks like there are cross grain marks from a chisel but they are very uniform. I wonder if an iron template was clamped on the piece, it may have incised the outline or just served as a guide. Nice workmanship.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Mook,
I have Ecke's book and while he does give an incredible amount of info on joints and measured drawings of interesting stuff, he does not go into getail on how things were done. Great book anyway...
I'm just guessing from the photos, but I would say a combination of power and hand techniques. A router on a compass would do most of the basic stock removal while keeping everything nice and symmetrical. All the corners and rounding over the bead could be conceivably hand finished. And the last thing would be the pass across the center to take out the compass point mark. In any case, if I had to do one of these that would be how I would try.
DR
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