Choice of compact router table
I am looking to replace my sagging Rockler router table with a new table, and want to save some space at the same time. I am a weekend woodworker with limited shop time, doing cabinetry and furniture for our home. I am looking at several options, and I am hoping to benefit from the expertise here. Options considered are:
To be placed on top of a Workmate:
1) Veritas router table system. Has anybody used the fence system? Has anyone found the smaller table top to be a limitation?
2) Benchdog Contractor Protop Will it sag (I am a little sensitive to that)? Has anybody used panel raising bits in this table?
Router in table saw wing:
I have a Dewalt 746 with sliding table and a 30 inch fence. An option would be to put a Benchdog Promax on the right hand side of the saw. Has anyone tried this?
Replies
WT, I've had the Veritas table for about 3 years now and have nothing to positive things to say about it. The table is bigger (16" x 24") than the Bench Dog you also asked about. Positives: it will definitely never sag; any router in the world mounts to it with very little fuss; it's thin, making above-the-table bit changes quite easy; you can use magnetic accessories (Grip-Tite most notably).
Can't answer as to whether its size (relative to a big table) would be disadvantageous. You could always work out some kind of stock support should you be using it on large panels. Note that they make an insert with the same router-mounting mechanism, for those who use a traditional table.
I just got their fence and sled about 2 weeks ago, and fitted it up but haven't used it yet. It's an incredibly solid and well-machined piece of equipment. Adjustments require the use of an allen wrench mostly, so that might be a bit inconvenient, but if you're making multiples of this and than, hopefully won't be a big deal.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
PS: I have the Veritas mounted to the left side of my table saw. It's hinged and can be let down with all the settings intact if I need it out of the way. When the table is made level with the table saw wing, it makes great extra stock support on that side.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"I have the Veritas mounted to the left side of my table saw. It's hinged and can be let down with all the settings intact if I need it out of the way. When the table is made level with the table saw wing, it makes great extra stock support on that side."
Any chance you could post a picture of this? It's something I've been considering doing in my shop.Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
Rennie, here is the page I made "way back when" I got the table (used) and refurbished it. Please note: My saw now has cast iron wings, which I did not drill; I just C-clamped the table frame to the wing. Recently, another Knots member had additional questions, and I shot a couple extra pictures. If you would like them, click on my name and email me; I'll shoot 'em over to you.
The very last picture (3rd page) shows the table in the "down" position, with the home-made fence attached. Note that the links to Lee Valley are outdated, so clicking is futile.
Now, with the Veritas fence, I may have to make a couple of modifications so that everything clears the table saw. Since I was always planning to actually make a cabinet for the table top, this situation will just get me in gear (I hope, LOL).
"Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral." Thank you for posting that. I'm about to take on a job for 100 birdfeeders. ROFL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks to all. It seems I can not go wrong either way. Hanging the Veritas table on the table saw wing looks like an interesting idea. I think 'll look into that.
WT,
I endorse Forest girl's praise for the Veritas. I've had one for some years now and can tell you it is a robust item with excellent engineering and clever design.
It is a bit expensive if you get all the additional parts - cross cut fence, stops and so forth. But it is SO precise. You really can remove a couple of thou or so using the micrometer fence adjuster. It is very flat/stiff but also just ever so slightly crowned at the centre, so you never suffer the sag problem that tables made of MDF or other particulates can sucumb to, especially if there is damp about.
The only aspect of the table I do not get on with is the Veritas bit jack - a device for raising and lowering the router. I now use a big Triton router (see the mini-review of the small Triton in the current issue of FWW) which has coarse and fine adjusters built into it and also allows one-wrench bit changes above the table top.
As I've said in other posts, I think the Veritas table with a Triton router is the ultimate router table.
Lataxe
"It is a bit expensive if you get all the additional parts - cross cut fence, stops and so forth." Hmmmm, it's been quite awhile since I priced out other quality router table set-ups, but when I did, the Veritas was quite competitive. They did raise the price not too long ago (at least $US). Top, fence and right-angle sled package is $354. I especially like their shaper-style work hold-downs. Yep, that's a chunk at $31.50. I'm hoping I only need one though, whadya think? Their fence stop is less than most high-end makers at $18.95, is it not??
No doubt, I'm glad to have gotten the table used, saved a little money there. Just wish I could have gotten the fence before the price increase.
Question for you: Do you find the adjustments on the fence to be pretty easy? Not a hassle, considering needing to use an allen wrench of screwdriver? I've not tried the fence out yet. Too much yardwork going on at the moment.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Girl,
I confess to not having made any price comparisons of the Veritas system with others of similar quality, not least because it's not easy to find such things in the flesh here in Britain. If you're suggesting in addition that the Veritas is good value, I would say yes, yes, yes!
As to adjusting the fence (and other bits) the first point is that you can; and with great precision. The stops, the hold-downs, the fence and every aspect of the thing is made with tight tolerances and this translates to precise adjustments. But you knew that already. :-)
I do find the allen key bolt heads slightly inconvenient, not least because they use a strange Imperial size which my proper allen keys don't fit. (When will you ex-colonials reject those inches)! :-) The false fence-faces held on with slotted bolts are fine; but I wonder why they aren't allen bolts too?
Anyway, I keep the allen key and short slot screwdriver to hand, within holes drilled for the purpose in the home-made stand that the Veritas table perches on. But I do have a next-order list for Veritas that includes some of their 1/4-20 replacement knobs - same as the allen head bolts but with plastic handles on instead. For oft-changed things (like the hold downs) I will substitute the plastic-handled knobs.
The hold downs work very well, although you need to get experiences at finding the right pressure - so the work piece can be easily pushed through whilst still forcing the work into the cutter. It will take you only a couple of goes to get the feel. I only use them with relatively narrow/shallow work pieces, relying on my hands if the work piece can be held down and pushed well away from the bit.
Two hold downs are better than one - one set before and one after the bit - if you're a worrier like me. One set before of the bit only does work though; and is less time to set up.
These hold-downs are also very useful on my TS, which has a fence similar in style to the Veritas router fence - lots of T-slots machined in it. Being a paranoid Brit concerning TS kick back and such, I use the hold downs as a back-up to the riving knife. Sometimes I use the press-down springs only on the TS, not the press-sideways springs, as TS work pieces are often too wide for the sideways springs.
If it helps, I can send you photos.....but the Lee Valley web site illustrations are pretty good, aren't they.
Lataxe, self-confessed Veritas fan.
Great idea to use the hold-down on the table saw! I'll keep that one in the mental hopper for later use. Let me know how the conversion to knobs works, as that was the first thing that occurred to me when thinking "would I make any changes?"
I'm sure I'll order another hold-down soon. There's a pretty big paying project in the offing, to be finalized next month, samples for advertising in August, and the first production run due in mid-September. Simple project, but fairly lucrative, and being requested by a friend's wife, someone who is very businesslike and sensible. Such a refreshing change (she said, crossing her fingers).
How is your dust collection arranged on this table? That's my biggest challenge.
Is your stand pretty simple, or more of a cabinet? Would love pictures if you have time.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Girl,
I use the Veritas small cabinet to stand the router table in, as it came free with the table/fence package I bought long ago. This stands on a home-made mobile stand with locking wheels. (Most of my bigger tools are mobile, as the shed is small so reconfiguration of the work area is often needed).
Dust collection is generally good as I can either use the Veritas magnetic chute, behind the fence, on the table top; or the dedicated shroud around the Triton router base. I use the former if the red table insert closely surrounds the bit so no dust can drop through; and the latter when the insert allows dust to get below the router table. One day I will get a Y-fitting so I can use both at once.
The vacuum is a small LVHP sold as a Trend but is the same as a Fein. It has auto switch on/off for the router (which also has a no-volt switch for table use) and a 3-stage filter that goes down to 0.3 microns.
I'll post you photos in a day or two, if that's OK.
Girl,
Here are some pics of my Veritas router table set up:
The whole assembly trundles about, so I can orient it to handle larger work pieces in my over-crowded shed. The wheels lock, to keep it still whilst routing. The router is wired into a no-volt release switch mounted on the side of the router table box, so if the router is left switched on it will not accidentally start when you plug it in again, until the green “go” button is pressed.
The double hold down arrangement is only used with small work pieces, particularly if they are long and thin. I use a long, even-thinner push stick to shove the work piece under the hold downs and past the cutter.
The advantage of two hold downs, before and after the bit, is that the work piece continues to be held against the table and fence by the after-bit hold downs once it’s gone past the before-bit hold downs.
As you can see, the allen bolts of the hold downs are a bit discoloured and need replacing with nice shiny plastic knob-headed bolts (see ¼-20 jigs and fixtures bolts in the Veritas catalogue/website).
For fatter small work pieces, instead of the hold downs I use a small parts mitre jig (04K01.01) with two handles on the end to hold and move the work piece. This is also used for routing small curved pieces (ie when there’s no fence to mount the hold downs on anyway).
For big work pieces, I just use my hands, as they have the best “feel” and its safe if hands can be kept away from the bit by holding the corner/edge of the large work piece opposite the edge being cut. I also mount the Plexiglas guard over the cutter in these instances. I don’t know if it would stop a work piece flying at your head, mind, should you make a bad freehand move with one of those big cutters!
The Veritas magnetic dust chute works well if the table insert closely shrouds the bit. The great majority of the dust then goes into the chute/vac as the insert prevents it getting sucked down to the router by the router’s fan or by gravity. The magnetic chute is also good for fenceless routing, as it sticks anywhere on the steel table top.
I would quite like Veritas to make a wider or even curved-wider dust chute, for freehand routing of curved pieces (typically done with a template-following straight bit). The dust comes off the bit at different angles as you move the curved work piece around on the cutter, sometimes missing the chute, despite the suck from it.
If the bit is not closely shrouded by the table insert, I plug the vac hose into the hole within the Triton router’s dust shroud. (You can see the hole where there are a couple of ribs moulded in, to allow a purpose-made Triton hose to screw in). I must get one of these hoses one day, as presently I stuff the vac hose in using a bit of soft rubber pipe as a connector. It works well enough, though. In this case, I leave the Veritas dust chute in place on the back of the fence but block it off. 95% of the dust does then go via the Triton shroud and into the vacuum.
As you can see, the Triton has the handy feature of allowing the collet to be wound above the table top. This also requires the on/off switch to be set at “off “ (when a spring-loaded sliding gate covers it up) so the router can’t be started. In this position, the collet also locks after ¼ of a turn or so, allowing a one-wrench change of the bit above the tabletop. Magic!
The collet is ½ inch but there is a ¼ inset to allow ¼ inch bits to be used.
The right hand (as viewed in the picture) plunge knob of the Triton can be set to make the router a conventional plunger or to allow the handle to be used as a dial to wind the router up and down. This latter mode is used when the Triton is in the router table. You can also easily remove the plunge spring so you aren’t fighting that as well as gravity when you wind the beast up.
Right next to this main winder is a micro-adjust winder. Used together, these knobs allow you to set an exact bit height very quickly. I use a Veritas taper gauge (05N38.03) or a dial height gauge (88N87.06) to accurately measure the bit height.
If I had the room, I would set the Veritas table in a larger box with a long bench to either side, at table height. As it is, I must use roller stands to support long work pieces on and off the table. This works well but is a bit tedious to set up, especially in my crowded shed.
Hope all this rambling is of some help. J
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Lataxe, thanks so much for the pics and descriptions. That Triton looks great in there! Love the dust shroud.
I haven't digested the whole thing (eager for lunch at the moment), but a few little things. Re: the discolored screws and such.....if you can get your hands on some EvapoRust over there, soak 'em in a cup of that for an hour or two. It's the greatest thing for de-rusting threaded bolts and such! I've used it now on a few items, and the bolts and screws come out nice and shiney without having to try and scrub out the threads.
Re: your stock support....could you not build in "drop-leaf" table wings on each side of that box? I'll bet you could! Of course, the trick would be getting them exactly level with the table, but I'm sure it's doable. Check out this bolt-on adjustable height roller stand. I've been thinking it has many potential uses in a wood shop.
Thanks again, I'm off!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
thanks for posting this, I had decided against the Veritas system on the grounds that it doesn't have built in dust collection. Anyone else care to comment on this? Seems important to me.
Storme,
Just to elaborate on the dust collection aspect:
The magnetic dust chute is a handy item with the steel table top. You can stick it anywhere that will work best for how the bit is throwing dust, including under the table.
In practice it does work best attached to the back of the fence; but the bit must be closely shrouded by the table insert or dust will go down tothe router as well as into the chute. That's one reason why I like the Triton because it has its own dust collection set up. Some other routers (eg Dewalt and Festool) have similar dust-grabbing shrouds.
Have a look at the Lee Valley website, as they give quite a lot of info on the Veritas system. I think you can get a free manual; certainly there is a cheap video, which is pretty good at showing the tool, even if the presenter is a bit not-a-presenter, if you see what I mean.
Gawd, I've rambled again!
Lataxe
thanks for the details, I always appreciate your posts.cheers,
-s
Young man, the knobs are a capital idea. I own all of those imperial sized sticks as well as all of Allen's keys and still don't like them ! It would be a great kindness if you could post a list of your choice of knobs as I don't have my toy here in NY. and would like to add them to my pending shipment to Tn. at the end of July. Brother Lee and his elves are masters at having the brown truck show up just day or so after my arrival as promised. Regds. old Paddy
Paddy,
I'll look up me shopping list and get you the Le Valley catalogue numbers tomorrow.
Lataxe
Bless you my son, no hurry as I have till mid July to get my act together. Regds, Pat
L. Just got off the blower with Sue of Mr. Lee's cust svc, she must talk with the engineering elves and will get back to me. Her first thoughts (and she is very well versed in the technical) were if we use that which was not designed for the fence or sled our extensive warranty could vanish. I see three posibilities. 1-Your thumb screws of proper legnth. 2- a variety of knobs with the 1/4-20 bolt afixed. 3- a variety of knobs with the female 1/4-20 thread for use with the proper legnth 1/4-20 "T" bolts.
The phone just rang--- Sue saw the elve in question and he said "GO FOR IT" no worries. He suggests knobs with wings, not the round ones, "to insure good purchase" (he's from the U.K.) on the fence and perhaps only the rear two on the sled as the others get less traffic in adjustment. I am yet again stunned by the speed and quality of CS from the Lee gang.
I will order up a flock of the 3 options above and play with them on 7/31 in TN. but can't report in till mid August when I return. All the best. Pat
Paddy,
You are a first class sleuth man!
I too am away until August so I look forward to experimentation then.
Lataxe
Paddy, I'm about to place an order with Lee Valley, and would like to include the knobs in it. To save me from screwing up here (pardon the pun) could you tell me which knobs on this page you're speaking of and how many I'll need for the Veritas fence and sled?? Thanks so much for passing on the info from LV. They rock, don't they?!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
J, I don't have the table here in NY so I ordered a gagle of types and sizes to see which are the best when I get to Tn on 7/24. I return in 3/4 weeks or mid Aug. and will report in. On your page , M,O,Q for size of knob using the slide nuts and L.N,P using "T" bolts(12k79.70/72) where the bolt comes thru the knob making precise bolt length a non-critical factor. Should we use a nylon washer between the brass knob insert and alum fence as a cushion for folks with big ham hocks like mine? I will test them all.
I also grabbed a bunch of others to try and the losers just go into my jig parts box which needed restocking anyway. I will put knobs on the fence and as the Lv guy noted the rear pair (fence end) of the sled for sure as the others don't move much. I am looking for smallest but most effective / ease of use, without having knobs sprouting up every where like the radio antennas on a Russian trawler. All the best , Pat
I'm on my way to Woodcraft, with one mission being trying out various knots on the Veritas set-up. Thing is, I only see a major need for knots on the hold-down which I don't think was even mentioned above! That's what I've ended up adjusting the most, by far far far far.
Am not clear on the need for knobs on the sled, not sure what "rear two mean" -- whether that means the ones that are actually on the very back of the T brase (on either side of the white plastic knurled knob. The 4 different ones that are on top don't seem like they'd need adjustment very often. Oh well, I'll see what the have.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 7/10/2006 2:01 pm by forestgirl
J. I hope you'r lookin for knoBs as I really don't like knoTs on my router table. Ha
See what happens when you keyboard super fast. Us two finger guys actually have to look at the keys.
The hold downs are my first target also, what a PITA. Next the sled slider bolts, then the fence split bolts if they don't get in the way. I am at a great disadvantage with the rig in TN, I am working from memory. Please let's hear what you find. Regds, Pat
Welllllll, not good news. The allen bolts/screws/whatever they're called are metric [Correction, no they are not. Should have watched the Woodcraft guy closer; I went to Ace and found that 1/4-20 worked fine on the hold-down.], so no joy at Woodcraft. Tell you the truth, I can't image that a full winged knob is needed for any of this stuff [Fooled me. Yes, a knob would be best. Thumbscrew takes quite a bit of force; hard on the fingers]. Am thinking that a thumb-screw would work. I'm gonna hit up Ace Hardware, and if that doesn't work, there's a place about 40 minutes from here called Tacoma Screw. They have everything-screw (no jokes, please, or at least make them pass censor muster, LOL).
When you say "split fence" you're speaking of the metal body, right, not the sub-fences? Those simply move by loosening the knobs that clamp the fence to the table, no??? After which the subfences, if you're using them, might need to be rearranged. That involves the screwdriver, but I'm not thinking of any easy way around that, since they must be countersunk.
The subfences were easy on my home-made fence, because they had a bolt that went all the way through the main fence and were fastened by wing nuts.
None of this bothers me too much, because (with any kind of luck) I'll be doing mini-production runs that, once I get the fence set will involve running 300-600 pieces with one fence setting.
Still, though, I'd love to persue this and when we think we've gotten the best arrangement for the fence, send off our ideas to Mr. Lee. Technically, I think the fence is fantastic, but it could use some more user-friendly details!
Dinnertime. I'll look at the fence later tonight.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 7/13/2006 9:42 pm by forestgirl
J, Great work, not to fret about the metric cap screws, I picked up a bag of each legnth in 1/4-20 with my order of knobs so all my tryouts will be 1/4-20. I dislike allen keys enough to design a better off center"T" handle just long enough to clear your knuckles when doing the top screws and with one wing of the "T" short enough to clear the table top when moving the wood fences. Pat
Oops, forgot to say that if you find metric thumb screws great. I also ordered those floating t-nut ovals in 1/4-20 to fit the knobs. pfh
Edited 7/10/2006 10:29 pm ET by PADDYDAHAT
'Tis good, Paddy. Can I impose on you to provide pics when it's all together?
I picked up some DC fittings while I was there, including this new (so they say) piece. Since I'm still moving hoses around, am thinking it might make some of the quick connections a little easier. Looks like it belongs in the plumbing section, LOL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
J, no imposition at all, I had planned on full disclosure (win or lose) in mid Aug. as Mr. L is separated from us by many miles and a common language. Ha.
The DC connection looks new to me, but ten bucks? I saw male/female quick connects some where that I may look into again. I too am switching my two bagger and trash can till I get around to a cyclone down the road after fit out of dry wall, paint, lighting, compressed air, 100amp sub panel and machine layout. I will be much older before I get this done. All the best, Pat
The quick connect are "O.K." but each has a somewhat tentative hold onto whatever it's connected too. Gravity can prove a bugger, or move a hose and "clunk" down it goes. I'm not too far away from starting to set up permanent piping, hopefully.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
See my corrections in red type above.http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=30513.55forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
J. "thanks I needed that" I am sooooo frustrated not having the rig here. I just have to wait. Plenty to do here. The old station wagon(aka planter) gets picked up Sat. and Mon. they take off two roofs and apply a new one which will give me peace of mind while away. Regds. Pat
Hey, we've got a few of those planters ourselves, LOL!! Sounds like by mid-week you'll be feeling alot better.
I want to think of something that will give those hold-down rods a little bit of a friction-fit, so that if you loosen the screw that holds them to fence, just to move them right-to-left (or whatever), you don't lose the setting on the spring.
I've got a LV order all made up, just about to push the Submit button. Another hold-down, the flip-stop and the vacuum fitting. Plus a 24" straight-edge for setting up the jointer, among other things.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Have you looked at the video the veritas comes with? Might be some what helpful. I only looked at mine last night. Was kinda surprised to see him using a verticle bit for raised panels..I was impressed.
I really like the system a lot. I've alreday ran miles of cross rails (1100 LF) for my cedar fences over it and used some new corner edging bits for the 4x4 posts...ugh...whaddid I get myself into (again)...can't wait to never see another fence(other than the ones ontools)again..lol.If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Sounds like the Veritas outfit is working great for you. Glad to hear it! I don't doubt you could find me and do some major damage had it proved to be a dog, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Evenin' Lataxe...My Veritas RT system should be in the mail to me tomorrow they said arriving next week : ) I ordered the complete package inluding rhe lil' table, and a pair of hold downs (tomorrow morning early I'm calling them to see if they can put two stops in my order if it hasn't gone out yet).Been reading your posts concerning the system and the idea of using those hold downs on your TS is "great". I'm wondering if you or anyone else has any idea how I could use them on my Powermatic 66 cabinet saw being the fence isn't compatable. Do you know of any type of clamp system I might look into to adapt to my fence? Just a thought...would make the cost I spent on the two of those suckers more palitable.How long does it take from opening the boxes to gettin' the thing together ...up and running, take approximatly? Do you remember? No biggie, just curious. Any helpful tips goes appreciated. At least a dozen dog biscuits worth...lol.
Anyway...thanks for all the info you and Fgirl posted...very helpful. Almost makes me wonder if you two are working for LeeValley...LOL...kidding! Just sounds like yer really diggin' the system is all : )PS...Where'd you find those knobs for retroffiting the screws for the hold downs,etc, etc? Another great idea!
And the wooden subfence looks a bit cheesy...good idea to make my own...and a bit longer as well???Be well
andy...
Edited 6/29/2006 8:46 pm ET by andybuildz
Nope, don't work for Lee Valley, though they're only about 4 hours away. Hmmmmmm.....oh dear, a different country. Nope.
The thing that took the longest for me to get together and working right was the right-angle sled. Mainly because I didn't read the directions. LOL. I think the whole thing might have taken me 1/2 hour, maybe a little more, but half the time I was wiping the drool off.
I've called LV the next morning to fix an order. No problem at all, they're great. (ka-ching). I think Lataxe was getting the knobs from LV wasn't he??
The subfences are poplar and incredibly straight and clean. I'm sure a variety of clones would work as good or better.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Andy,
Greetings from Rhubarb City, where the sun is currently beaming down and all is right with the rhubarb patch.
Although one of the fences I use on the TS has T-slots on the top that fit the Veritas hold-downs, the other fence does not. (It's the bandsaw fence, really. but I use it with the TS on the left of the blade sometimes - both machines are Scheppach and the fences are interchangeable). I affixed a T-track channel to the top of the bandsaw fence, with the small flush-head bolts supplied with the T-track. I had to drill and tap the fence top, but it was easy as its made of aluminium.
Guess what - Veritas sell T-track too! (No. I am not one of their employees and have no shares - I'm just one of their groupies). :-)
(Paddy, I hope you see the following too).
The replacement bolts I intend to buy for the hold downs are the 1/4-20 solid thumbscrew ones (see their website page for "jig fixings") of 1/2" and 1 1/2" length, although there are some plastic-knobbed ones that look like possibilities too. I haven't bought any of them yet, as I have to get them direct (the UK Lee Valley distributer does not import these particular items) for which there is a hefty postage cost, requiring a minimum-order size from me to make it financially worthwhile.
The wooden subfence you see on mine has had some use, I can tell you. The ends are gradually chewed down by various bit profiles, as the subfences are moved in to hug the bits for each job. I have 4 different pairs of false fences, including a standard spare set (still uncut); a very long pair (for jointing or very long pieces); a tall set (for panel raising and use with a mitre lock joint); and a set dedicated to the profiles of a cope and stick set (which are big thwokers and need a particularly close hug).
When I first got the table I spent half a day building it up, mounting the router and playing with it. I've swapped routers to a Triton (from a Dewalt 625) since then - another hour or so, including the playing. But I aren't in a hurry, as there are no commercial pressures on me.
Have fun with yours.
Lataxe, with a clap or two for Mr Lee.
Latax, saw it, got it and will work on type, quantity and sizes with the elves across the border. If you run into a shipping boondogle that gets pricey on a commercial basis let me know. I could order extra and ship US post as a gift. If you do, just advise of the forth coming email on knots . My office pro software got cooked but I can see the mail on the remote verizon site till I get it fixed. Regds, Pat
Paddy,
As the ladywife and I walked into Lancaster along the canal towpath this afternoon, I began to wonder about the bolts for the holdowns (amongst other things). LV put allen head bolts in the HDs - do they do it for a reason? (I pondered). For instance, does it need the leverage of an allen key to ensure the HD arms and levers stay put?
I think I will still experiment anyway with the hand-tightened bolts, in due course, just to see. Perhaps I will even email LV.
Lataxe
I planned on talking to their tech elves on Sat. or Mon. for sure and I will report in. If it's a lost cause then the only solution is cutting down one of those absurdly long "T" handle hex keys as a dedicated adjustment tool to be kept close at hand to the table. Later, Pat
Forest Girl,
Thank you, and good luck with your chicken coop!Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
"and good luck with your chicken coop!" OK, I'll confess, that went completely over my head. Maybe I don't want to know?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"and good luck with your chicken coop!" OK, I'll confess, that went completely over my head. Maybe I don't want to know?
From one of your previous posts:
"Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral." Thank you for posting that. I'm about to take on a job for 100 birdfeeders. ROFL!
Bird feeders....chicken coop...a metaphorical misalignment, perhaps. It was funnier when I first wrote it. ;o(Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
That's OK, I laughed! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FREUD 3-1/4 H.P. PLUNGE ROUTER #FT2200VCE is the router that arrived today, Same one you have?
Question: How is a "plunge" router good in a router table? Does/can the plunge function even get utilized while in the table?
I think I just read some (Pat Warners site maybe?) where tonight that a plunge router shouldn't even be used in a RT. Is that so? Gulp~If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Andy, my Freud is an old specimen of the FT2000E, picked up at a WWer's auction years ago. Your version is the newest of the bunch.
Plunge routers have their quirks in a router table, but thousands of WWers use them in a table. There are aftermarket gizmos that make bit height changes easier (see Router Raizer or PlungeBar -- but you must get one for your model router). There are instructions out there for taking out the plunge springs if you need too. I have no experience doing this, but when I start using the router lots and lots and lots, will probably get motivated to do so.
It could be that you'd be happier with a fixed-base router in your table, but if this is the only plunge router you have, might as well keep it! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
So what you're saying is that you think my particular PR needs a lift? Wouldn;t be the worst thing and I was looking at the router raizer which is pretty reasonably priced,,,thanks
andy...If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
"Need" is a subjective word, LOL. Depends on how irritated you get about having to adjust it with the stock knob. I've seen at least one design for a shop-made crank to make it easier, so that would be an in-between solution.
Right now, for instance, aggravation about turning the knob is so low on my list compared to other aggravations I need to deal with (permanent ducting for the DC, for instance; finding room for my hubby since he now wants to share shop space with me) that I refuse to get grumpy about it. But that could change, depending on whatever project might come along.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
PS: Just to emphasize, make sure they have a Router Raizer for your model Frued.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'll have to call a supplier and ask because my model is 2200vce and they call for a 2000 but who knows. I don't see a specific "router raizer" site so Im gonna need to search around a little...Its always sumpin'
Maybe I'll ask Freud too.If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
OK..I've made my decission after torturing a few minds here...sorry..lol.
I am most definatly ordering the Veritas Table Top, Fence,Sled & Stand this week to put to use making fifty billion miles of custom cedar fencing here....among many other things. I've been happy with my Williams and Hussey molder planer but I need something besides that where I can buy bits in a pinch and not at the exhorbatant costs of the cutter blades especially when its a blade I may never use again or use very infrequently.
Anyway...the hold down issue concerns me due to the cost.
I'm wondering if the Grip-Tite Magnetic Featherboard can take the place of the Veritas Work Hold-Down??? I could also use the GTMF on my Powermatic table saw. Whatcha think? Is it as precise and as efficient?
Seems like the best bang for the buck.
Thanks.
Once my sections of fence come together I'll post some pictures.
Here's some pic of the spindles I made and the porch railings that are going around my four porches. The majority of "fences" will be 2x2 red clear cedar with pyramid tops which I've already made and 1x4 crossrails a few inches down from the top and rails on the very bottom...sandwiching in my spindles... All will be stained white.
BE well
andy...If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Andy, get 2 of the Veritas hold-downs. I love Grip-Tites -- have 3 of them, and the fence and roller kit -- but they won't work anything like those springed hold-downs on the Veritas do. No question about it.
If you need to shave a little $$ off your order to help pay for them, skip the stand. It's a no-brainer to make one, and they include plans in the paperwork with the router table. Note my use of rubber stoppers for the spacers, instead of wood. If you can find 4 hockey pucks, might work even better, LOL. Oh, BTW, if you can, get the videotape too.
Thanks for the pics -- you've got some huge projects going there! More the reason to get the most efficient set-up you can. Keep us posted!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I was thinking that the wooden table that came as part of my Powermatic table saw might be ideal to mount the router table right into (the saw is in one of those pic I posted). Ya think? Although I'd probably have to beef it up quite a bit I think...but it IS there already!
And yeh, I thought the magnetic hold down might not work as well as the spring loaded ones. Oh well.
And as far a the cab...W/ the whole set up they're charging about $45 vs $65 I think without it...Whats another $45 for something already done in case I might want to take it from the saw and use it more mobile. I donno...you know how it is...you just wanna get the sucker up and running right there and then the day it comes in the mail especially with all the projects I have to do around here...I donno,I donno,I donno...lol. Those hold downs sure seem expensive,,,specially 4 2...ugh You'd think they'd sell em' in pairs...yeh sure. I might even have some around here from an old table saw but then I'd have to figure out how to attach it to the metal fence. Clamps??? I'm sure I'll figure it out.
I like your rubber stopper idea though...very good idea. Probably better than a hocky puck...nice to be able to turn the screw in it to tighten it up. Nice idea!
aIf Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Wow, Andy, have another cup of coffee, eh? ROFL!! You're a kick.
It was just a thought. The cost of the stand covers 1.29 hold-downs. But it's all pretty small $$ in the long run, so no biggie. I might still have the plan for the stand tucked away somewhere. Those hold-downs slide in the top slot of the fence using an allen screw (bolt? whatever) and a T-nut.
Re: mounting table in a wing extension: The edges of the table need to be exposed for the fence to work. Go back and look at picture B on this page. If you want to use the table as an "insert" you'll need to get another fence option. Or skip the table altogether and just get the Veritas insert seen on this page. And then get the T-slot adapters for the fence. This is really getting way more complicated than it needs to be......
The guy I bought my table top from had mounted it "in" a table top. Huh? Apologies to him if he's still around, but really not a good idea. I still have that table if anyone wants it, LOL!
I can't get a good look at the extension table, 'cause you're workin' so hard in there, but if you saw my pictures....I actually use the router table as an extension table. It sits between the rails of my saw, level with the table. Knock the legs out from under it, and it drops down out of the way if I don't want to lose the settings on the bit and fence.
Jeeeez, that's a neat house! Hope you keep us posted as the work goes along! Cool!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/28/2006 12:24 pm by forestgirl
This is really getting way more complicated than it needs to be...>>>>>>Yer tellin' me....whewwww...just what I'm looking to avoid. I think I'd just keep it mounted in its own cab base. I'm better off anyway. Its not like I don't have enough room in my shop (if I clean it out more often). I'll buy their base and eventually make my own to set that one into or on top of. I spose' I had so many people tellin' me to mount it on my saw that I fell for it...HA. Now tell me we should be in Iraq,,,,ooops.. sorry, forgot I wasn't in the Tavern in Breaktime for once.
Two hold downs....grrrrr...oh well. Like we both didn't know we should use two before we asked ( I saw you asked too so don't deny it...lol).
You know of a good source for router bits? I know the one that has Amana and Freud and those others in it...not that site...I already know about that one. Seems they're all pretty much the same it seems but in case you know of one stupendous one I'll owe ya...lol.
I haven't recieved my Freud 3 1/4 in the mail yet...any day now I suspect. How do you like yours?
Coffee? Not me. I stopped the use of all drugs...lol. Imagine me if I continued on coffee...I'd self destruct. Matter of fact I've been a strict Macrobiotic person since Jan 1, 06. Stopped drinking coffee then too. I feel a trillion times better and I dion't particularly feel bad before. OK OK shutting up.
Thanks again and
Be well
andy...
PS...lol...think its becessary to get an extention for the router bits or does this particular table and the Freud router work fine without one?If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
The Veritas is so thin, you don't need an extension. At least I haven't since I put the Freud in. I can just get the wrench around the collet nut, and it's not even an angled wrench. An angled one would be the cat's meow, but not essential.
I haven't settled on one place to get bits from -- kinda depends on how fast I need one and whether I might be buying something else somewhere.
T'were I to order for some really serious routing, I'd probably go to RouterBits.com and pick up some Whitesides. Reports indicate another good company is Eagle America.
The little base that the table comes with will come in handy if you need to drag the table out and about, around or in the house, for instance. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Cat's meow...T'were I??? Wow...you "are" different...lol.
And yeh, thats what I thought that lil' base'd be good for as well.
Thanx for the links.
Be well
andyIf Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
I have a shop built RT in the right wing of my TS...saves space, works great.
Edited 6/23/2006 1:03 pm ET by Scotty_
woodentrain,
I've had the Veritas top for a couple of years - very satisfied. I only have one router and it only takes a few seconds (literally) to remove the router from the top or re-mount it back to the top. You don't need to change the router base when using in the table. And yet it is very secure when mounted. Very well designed. The fence is very well made but does require a screwdriver to adjust.
John L
I have had the Bench Dog table with a PC 7318 (heavy beast) left hanging underneath for three years, no sag at all. Also no problem with panel raising bit.
Mike
I have the Bench Dog table. (I use it on top of a workmate just like you intend) And its very sturdy! Its heavy enough, I dont even need to clamp it down.
That Veritas table looks nice, but for the price of that you could get ####second router to leave permanently mounted under the Bench Dog table.
Wt. I started with an old sears 1hp. on their tin table, used it for 15 years(sadly, didn't know any better then) then bought a cheap commercial MDF top and refitted alum track in the miter and fence slots . Three years later it had more hills and valleys than the Alps.
In March I was saved by the very generous info from FG and several others posted here. I picked up the entire Veritas system, stand and base (except for the pin arm) for my new shop. It is one of the best buys I have ever made and it works beautifully. I has a Milwaukee 3 1/2 hung ( zero deflection) ,a remote start switch, the magnetic DC and a 2 1/2 port that I cut in below. I used it off and on for two weeks fitting precise blockings for several large vises, made 4 drawers and 5 small poplar parts trays for the interior. Box joints are a pleasure with that cross arm. I have no problem with height adj. without the jack and will defer boring a precise hole to access the routers bottom adj. option. (I would rather wait and see as it's not a reversible modification). The whole business went together in a day and a half including the time for 5 coats of poly to seal all the wood. The ONLY suprise was that you need a Robertson bit (#2 square I think) for assembly. Watch the video, READ AND UNDERSTAND all instructions as there are lot and lots of parts. It's concepts are a little different so the learning curve is about 2 hours of play time, then the lights come on-"oh, that's how I do that!" and it is deadly accurate.
Ya think I like it? Good luck, Pat
Edited 6/26/2006 2:27 pm ET by PADDYDAHAT
I had agonized over what router table to opt for and bought Veritas. I had for some years, do not wont to remember how many, one I made myself of wood. But steel table and their fences are superb. Precision work you can do on it is a another story.
Brundo
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