I’m going to venture into sliding dovetails soon. Pulled out my Lee Valley catalog to check on prices and choices. Choices!! Too many. So, what diameter(s) and angle(s) should I buy for general use? Say for 3/4″+- material. TIA!
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Another proud member of the “I Rocked With ToolDoc Club” …. :>)
Edited 8/20/2005 10:18 pm ET by forestgirl
Replies
Jamie,
Be careful with the Lee Valley bits. I have had 2 different bits lose carbide while in use - they replaced the bits but I try to stay away from them. I would go with Whiteside (made in USA) or Freud. Also, get a 1/2 shank diameter if you can, sliding dovetails can be brutal on a bit because you can't "sneak" up on the cut - you take it all in 1 pass. The diameter you use shouldn't make much difference on joint strength, it's more of an asthetics issue. The cutting length is more important, you wouldn't want to cut much deeper than 3/8 on 3/4 stock. Good luck.
Lee
Lee,
Can you remember if you bought the 2 bits around the same time. Is it possible that Lee Valley had a bad batch at some point ?
Brent
Hi Lee. Yep, I use almost exclusively 1/2" shank bits.
What about the angle. A long time ago, I saw a chart with the different angles and their recommended uses, but it's long gone.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG,
The Leigh instruction book has a very complete listing of dovetail bits (angles and shank dia). If you need a copy, email me and I will scan the appropriate pages and email them to you.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Hey, thanks, that would be great! Send me a "hi" email through the forum, and I'll shoot you a reply, then you'll have my addy for direct mail (I don't think Taunton's software lets you send attachments).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG,
Sorry to take so long but a root canal slowed me down. I have the files ready to send if you will let me know how to get them to you. They are "jpg" files and each file is a single scanned page. Eight pages total.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
sliding dovetails can be brutal on a bit because you can't "sneak" up on the cut - you take it all in 1 pass.
Lee
I always make two passes. First pass with a straight bit to take out most of the waste, the second with the dovetail bit.
ian
That works for the "socket" part, but does it work for the other (male) part?? I'm too tired to try and figure it out1forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG
after you've slept some ... I know you know this, but for others
you cut the male part in two passes, once down each side
"after you've slept some ..." Yeah, right. Just got back in from the shop -- no power tools, except a quick swipe with the miter saw. Setting up a jig, cleaning up some mess.
"you cut the male part in two passes, once down each side" I think this is what Lee was saying. When cutting the male part, you can't make 2 passes on one side (sneaking up), then 2 on the other, can you?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I thought Lee was refering to the female part — you can make as many passes as you like when making the male part — but with the female part the bit is trapped within the slot and if it's a stopped housing you have to back out
ian
When cutting the male part, you can't make 2 passes on one side (sneaking up), then 2 on the other, can you?Depends on what you are doing... If you are using a router table and fence, then just one pass turn the stick 180 and cut second pass.. Re-set fence closer to bit.. Cut/cut.. Etc.One pass on each side will keep the cut centered on the stick..
Two cuts on one side and one cut on the other... Your off-center.. Make sense?I make many sliding dovetails.. Just because I like the joint.
The only bits I use are 1/2" shank, 1/2" and 3/4" 14 degree? I think they are 14 degree. I have my 'good' bits (whitesides) and my cheap Big Box bits... I have never found a reason to get better bits for dovetails because the cuts are fine using the cheap bits..Just me so.. When cutting the female.. Remove most of the stock with a spiral or straight bit first.. However.. Be sure that your dovetail bit has some wood to cut on all three faces. I think the bit tracks better than if your cut with the straight bit is the same depth as you will cut with the dovetail. In other words make sure the bottom cutters of the dovetail have some wood to cut (Not cutting just the sides).EDIT:: When cutting the female
I always ask permission first...
Edited 8/21/2005 11:30 am ET by WillGeorge
Sliding dovetails are great and there are a few things that you might like to know. You want to use the same bit for both the male and female parts of the joint. You don't have to remove all the material at once, start with a 1/4 inch straight bit (or spiral) and remove some of the initial material down the center, then do the dovetail it in one pass removing the rest. I use 8, 10, 12 and 14 degree dovetails and lean towards the 10 degree. They are strong and stable, not that I see much difference between the four. 10 degree bits are common among all the major manufacturers. Next, depending on the project will depend on the size of dovetail bit, although 1/2" tends to be fairly standard. Different bit size will determine whether the 1/4" trick I mentioned above will work. I've only used it with the 1/2" dovetails. Remember also to TEST on identically sized scraps. Getting the male part to fit snuggly on the test piece takes patience. Scott
Jamie,
I agree with what Lee said about cutting sliding dovetails. But I am surprised to here what he said about Lee Valley bits. I've been buying bits from them for almost 20 years and have never had a problem. Of course it doesn't surprise me that they replaced them for him.
Brent
Yep, I was surprised too. First time I've heard anything negative about their router bits. But then again, not too many people use them (relatively speaking). I have two but haven't put much mileage on them. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I don't think it really matters what angle you use for "French" dovetails. If you cut the waste with a straight bit first, it may cause the dovetail bit to dive in a little faster then you want. Using a dovetail dado for attaching drawer sides to a solid front, where side mounted slides will be used, is a common application. Obviously, you want a 1/2" bit for 1/2" sides. It's also common to use a stopped dado rather than ploughing through. If you are going through, use a backing block or it will break out on the exit.
Doing stopped sliding dovetails can be a challenge, especially on a drawer front. You have to cut in to where you want and then back out. It's not all that hard, you just have to have firm control of the piece and keep it tight to the router table and fence. You also need a left and right set up which means the fence has to set to the right for the left hand plough and to the left of the bit for right hand ploughs.
I cut the male part with the piece vertical on the table. Bury the bit in the fence so that just the bevel sticks out. You also want to lower the bit just a whisker so the male part doesn't bottom out. On long stock, you may want a horizontal table. The dang sliding dovetails can take quite a few different set ups, especially if you straight bit first. Some of the store bought router tables can be tough to set up for more advanced joints, replacing the fence with a shop made one, for tight clearance around the bit, and the ability to go left and right is a help.
Ploughing a female sliding dovetail on thicker stock can be done with a double fence for a guide, Push up on the left hand fence then come back out against the right hand one. Using a 1/2" bit for 3/4" material and setting the guide rails accordingly is the way to go. You use a similar set up for tapered sliders. You can cut the stop on the male piece with the same bit at the same depth. Use a block or miter gauge and nibble the end back as needed, just a little at a time. The bit will suck the piece in, so, set the fence incrementally.
The neck on a dovetail bit is the same whether it's a 1/2" shank or 1/4" so it doesn't matter much which you choose. Tapered sliding dovetails will require some special jigs for both male and female parts. They assemble much easier than straight sliders. With straight sliders, you may want to clamp a straight caul to both work pieces to keep them nice and flat as you slide them together. You may have to use a clamp to pull them together. Dovetail dadoes are a great joint for fixed shelves, partitions and table top attachment. They allow movement and can't pull apart. You're talking long term durability when you don't need glue or fasteners for your joinery. The Japanese are masters at this.
"French" dovetails?? Is the Tongue on both sides??
HAMMER I love the post.. LOL..
Dang just say ya can do it!
Hammer, thanks much for the detailed descriptions! Right now I'm going to use it on a jig for the bandsaw table, but when I get to making a bookcase or other piece of furniture using it, you might be hearing from me!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Some tips on the sliding dovetail here.
I agree, use a 1/2" shank. However, to make the cut easier, use a straight bit to hog out the main channel and make the dovetail bit work easier - just make sure the diameter is just less than the width of the top opening of the dovetail bit.
Jamie,
The Sept. issue of American Woodworker has info on making sliding dovetails. The procedure is for drawers, but the basic principals could be applied to shelving and casework, especially with some of the other info presented here.
Thanks, Rick. Have to check and see if I picked that one up yet or not. So many magazines, so little time!
Speaking of American WWer, I just ran across the check I wrote them for my last subscription, marked "2-year Sbx" -- strange thing, they stopped mailing them after one year. Definitely have to give them a call!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie,
No problem, my wife wants a lot of new furniture when we move into the new house in Feb. (coffe table, 2 end tables, side table, 2 night stands and a new pair of dressers) I am going with a roughly mission/arts & crafts/craftsman style approach and have been reviewing my books, and magazines when I saw that issue and bought it for the finishing article and the dresser on the cover for ideas. So while reading it, I saw the sliding dovetail article and your post came at just the right time. Glad to be of help.
I have some ideas of trying to incorporate or meld the mission and shaker styles and add in a touch of oriental design as well - and I am getting a few headaches from this but coming up with some nice ideas. Now I just need to find time to sit down and learn to use designcad - I have had it for 5 months now and have not gotten around to it yet. ( I feel another headache coming on I think )
1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Edited 8/23/2005 2:37 pm ET by Ricks503
Choices!! Too many?? Gee you picked you Hubbie.. OK with that.. Go with what you feel right.. I KNOW ya ALOT smarter than ya' pretends!
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