Choosing a high angle smoothing plane
Hi all – I’m in the market for a high angle smoothing plane to round out my collection of basic hand tools. I am usually of the mindset of buy-once-cry-once and all my other planes are Veritas. That being said, I’m in a period of relative austerity and I saw this in the recent blog post entitled “Quality Tools Inspire Excellence”
“Meet our latest additions: the Jorgensen #4 (right) and the Veritas Low Angle #5 planes. The Jorgensen, exclusively available at Lowe’s, offers incredible performance at a remarkably low price.”
I am internet literate enough to know a paid ad when I see it, but also if the fine folks of this forum told me that this Lowe’s exclusive plane for 60 bucks is actually pretty nice I’d give it a spin. Or should I just save up my pennies and stick with Veritas which has never failed me?
I’m also teaching some classes at a few community wood shops that are fairly strained for budget so serviceable, yet affordable tools are something that interests me in general. I also don’t have a ton of free time to shop around for vintage planes and restore them unfortunately even though I know that is a solid option.
Thanks in advance for your feedback!
Replies
There is that old saying: "You get what you pay for". I think it would be hard to produce a decent plane to sell for $60. Instead of a #4 smoothing plane consider a 4-1/2, wider and heftier. If you want to save a few bucks the Wood River planes by Woodcraft are pretty darn good. I have two of their planes along with Veritas and L-N and they perform very well.
That’s good advice. I forgot about wood river and have heard decent things. Much appreciated.
I just ordered a block plane from this company. They also carry smoothers at a decent price compared to veritas. Can add in additional blade angles and still come in under LV. TWW used them on a recent YT video and seemed to like them.
https://melbournetool.com/the-tools/bench-planes/low-angle-smoothing/
Right on - this company was not on my radar. I will check them out. Thanks!
Full disclosure. Vic is a good friend of mine. We met up with him and Andrea at the Woodworking Show last weekend. I was thoroughly impressed with the MTC plane and especially the spokeshave.
nice - I might have to check it out. Appreciate the response!
One of the more prominent internet WW fellows (Rex Krueger) did a review of the Jorgensen smoothing plane just over a year ago and found quite a lot of good design features but also a lot of quite serious manufacturing flaws.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaCZvaTgrW0
Personally I would buy one of the other better-made Chinese metal planes if I was looking to save money over an LN or Veritas equivalent type. Quangsheng or Wood River seem much better quality, according to all sorts of reviews. But they cost significantly more. Yet still around half the price of a Veritas or LN equivalent.
Here's an example:
https://workshopheaven.com/quangsheng-no-4-1-2-bedrock-pattern-smoothing-plane/
I believe the Wood River are more or less the same plane with a few variations of the parts.
On the other hand, an LN or Veritas plane will keep much more of its value when it comes to resale time.
But, these days, I'd make a wooden plane with more ease-of-use features than the traditional sort, such as a threaded adjuster rather than just a wedge + hammer. You can make a highly-performant plane of any kind for the price of a decent blade, the adjuster and some appropriate hardwood. Those I've made typically cost around £60 (maybe $80). And you learn some new skills. :-)
I love the idea of making my own. Might give it a spin down the road.
I built a nice Krenov style wooden one with a matching standard angle using Hock blades from Lee Valley, each for less than $60 total. You will need basic tools to build it with, but it is much easier than you might imagine, and they work as well as any Lie-Nielsen plane that I have. Note that you will also need to build or buy a small adjustment hammer too, but building one of those is fun as well.
Yea I might have to give this a go. It would be a fun project and could be a cool class to teach down the road as well. I actually have a little book on Krenov style planes so I really have no excuse…Appreciate the help!
Great tips everyone - I think I am just going to bite the bullet and go with Veritas or LN for myself and recommend something like wood river for the two community woodshops. And then next step will be making a few of my own - seems fun/doable.
Just for the future. Jorge son was bought by an overseas conglomerate years ago and is no longer the respected American manufacture it once was and from what I've seen of the product buyer beware.
Thanks! Yea I think I’m gonna pass. I’m imagining that you occasionally luck into a good one but I have no desire to do battle trying to tune up a bad product.
The topic here is planes, but at the risk of getting off topic, I would offer that the new Jorgensen clamps are rock solid. I've purchased about a dozen F-clamps and a few cam clamps and find them rugged and well built. Every bit as good as my Besseys.
I have no idea about the hand planes, but the new company is doing fine with clamps.
I have 3 recent Jorgensen parallel jaw clamps. I picked them up from the local big box store when I was short of the Besseys and Jets I have. I wouldn't buy them again, as the jaws are not parallel.
Just my 2 cents worth. If you are thinking of investing in a premium plane, I would judge LN and Veritas about equal. For a smoothing plane, I would go with the LN #4 Bronze plane. For a small additional investment, you can buy different frogs, giving you a standard pitch (45 degrees), York Pitch (50 degrees) or 55 degree. In addition to being beautiful, the Bronze performs really well and does not rust. Of all my planes, this is probably my favorite. Every time I get it off the shelf to use it, I just take a second to admire how beautiful it is and how well it works.
5 or 10 or 20 years from now, you will never regret investing in a high quality tool. However, if the cost is absolutely prohibitive, the Wood River seems like a pretty good option. I have a Wood River #1 plane and it seems ok. I hardly ever use it, because for the size, a block plane is less unwieldy and just works better for most applications. Having said that, the fit and finish of the WR appear to be pretty good, and the awkwardness of the WR would probably apply to a Stanley or LN of the same model.
Back in 2019 (I think - it was pre-pandemic), I took my Lie-Nielsen no 4-1/2 and put a 55 degree frog on it for using when tear out was an issue. I had switched to a Lie Nielsen No 3 as my daily smoother and the No 4-1/2 wasn't being used anymore so I converted it for those times when tear out was an issue with the No 3. If I were to do it over again, I'd likely get the No 3 with a 55 degree frog to deal with tear out. Not inexpensive. I know that WoodByWright sells brass shims (via Reeds) so that you can take a vintage hand plane and convert it to a high angle plane. If you have a spare vintage plane laying around, that would be the inexpensive option to explore. I need to spend more time behind my cabinet scraper to see how well that works, I just never seem to get around to it.
Another option, and one that I'm a big believer in, is to buy a bevel up plane and then grind and hone the iron to get the higher angle to avoid tear out. I have several low angle Veritas planes with an extra blade sharpened to about 60 degrees. With the adjustable mouth it's very quick and easy to change out the blades.
I second this idea. I have 2 Veritas bevel up planes, low angle jack and the low angle smoother and 3 different blades which I have at 25, 38, and 50 degrees which fit both planes. This gives me a tremendous amount of flexibility and easy set up and swaps.
Like joeleonetti, I bought the bullet and got a L-N #4 with a 55 deg frog. Later I also got a standard frog -- it's such a good plane I sometimes use it that way. Anyway, I've found it very helpful for highly figured wood.
Despite what many people say, I've never found that I can predict what plane I should use. I try them all -- low angle, standard angle, high angle, bevel up, bevel down -- on difficult wood until I get the best result. Maybe that's just me. But anyway, if you can afford the L-N high angle frog smoother, I think you'll enjoy using it, even if it's not your everyday go to. With an extra frog, it can be, though, getting more mileage out of this pricey but great tool.
The 50 and 55 degree frogs were out of stock at Lie Nielsen for a very long time. Years. They recently got them back in stock. So if someone was interested, I'd get one now.
Can you put a 5° back bevel on a standard plane to achieve a 50°?
I avoid planing highly figured wood.
That will alter the presentation angle, but also increases the angle of the sharpened edge reducing cutting efficiency. The iron starts to transition from knife to sideaxe ine profile, and taken far enough becomes a scraper.
Can you put a 5° back bevel on a standard plane iron?
I avoid planing highly figured wood. ;-)
Yes you can. You are better off with a bevel up plane though, it is simpler and with no frog or chipbreaker, a more solid assembly. With an included angle of 58 degrees you can plane most anything without tear out.
You may be better off, but you're out $200+ vs $50. Other than that, is there a really a difference? Serious question.
Read Derek's post below. I can't improve on his first two paragraphs.
How does a LA plane + high angle bevel do on figured wood with no chip breaker?
At what point do you just pull out a cabinet scraper?
I typically work with Cherry both flat cut and figured. With a bevel up plane with a 12° bed, I hone a 45° secondary bevel on my iron for a 57° cutting angle. With this setup I can plane without regard for grain direction with no tearout.
Best thing to do is give it a try.
Bevel down planes, based on the Bailey Pattern (LN, Veritas, Stanley), suck when used with high cutting angles. The high cutting angles can be created by either a high angle frog or a back bevel. The reason for this is that this style of plane has a high centre of effort, and the high cutting angle is more work to push.
By contrast, a high cutting angle on a bevel up plane is much less work. You achieve this with a high secondary bevel.
There are two other ways to achieve tear out resistant performance when hand planing. The first is to use a closed up chipbreaker on a Bailey pattern plane. The second other method is to use a high cutting angle on a bevel down plane with a low centre of effort, such as one from HNT Gordon.
Those interested may wish to read an article I wrote on plane choice:
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes1.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
May I add another good possible choice for a smoothing plane: one of those from Gary Blum. These have a design of cutter, frog and other parts of the gubbins that's different form any other plane.
https://blumtool.com/tools/bench-planes/
Have a look at Gary's short vid on the website about how to adjust the chip breaker and the effects on planing of difficult woods.
I have one of his jointer planes in mesquite which I use as both a final smoother on very large flat pieces like a table top but also for the final jointing of edges of the planks that go into such large flat pieces.
As the plane is used for smoothing, the shavings taken are very thin. The plane has a chip breaker that's designed to provide an extremely close fit to the blade with an almost invisible projection of the blade beyond it. The chip breaker has a steep face so the standard 45 or 47 degree blade angle can cut difficult woods because the chip breaker immediately bends up the shaving and breaks it before it can steer the blade edge into a dive that produces tear-out.
These planes are similar prices to Veritas or LNs but as a smoother mine is unsurpassed - and I have all sorts of other planes of high quality, both bevel up & down, with various cutting angles.
They're worth a serious look.
Derek, you did a test of a Blum plane some years back, with mixed results. I got the feeling you didn't "persist" with the unconventional design characteristics and associated set-up/techniques, though. :-)
Hi David
I had the opportunity to test Gary's planes when he first developed them. They performed very well. I particularly liked how light and balanced they were. I did write a review of the smoother and try plane - that was in 2008 ..
https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/Blumplanereview-SmootherandForePlanes.html
The downside for me was the relative fiddliness in setting them up, and their twin-knob adjusters. But this is against more familiar Bailey-style planes. One could say the same about the Veritas Custom planes - they are just different, and once you get used to them, they are less so.
Trust you are keeping out of trouble. Best wishes for 2024.
Regards from Perth
Derek