I am a novice woodworker and want to finally do a project using mortise and tenon joinery. I’ve been reviewing the various ways to make mortises and tenons and am considering purchasing mortise chisels to chop the mortises by hand. Because it seems many now use a router to cut mortises, I am interested in hearing people’s experiences with the two methods. I suppose I am drawn to chopping the mortises by hand not only to develop my skills with hand tools – but also because little set up is required.
Also – does anyone have an opinion on Sorby mortise chisels versus those made by Hirsch? Both are available from Lee Valley tools and I would be interested in hearing if one performs better than the other.
Replies
Unless you have dozens of the exact same mortise to create, chopping with a mallet and chisel is an efficient and, dare I say, enjoyable way of getting the job done. I personally dislike using routers and hate messing around with the jigs necessary to route out mortises. The first time I tried it, I was shocked at how relatively easy it is to create a mortise with a chisel. And I can chop out a few mortises much faster than I can set up a router and jig. The key is in the layout and the tool. The mechanics of actually chopping out the mortise are not very complicated -- you're not carving a ball and claw foot, your chopping a little rectangular hole. In fact, the chisel actually does most of the work. I highly recommend a video by Rob Cosman on hand cut mortise and tenons. (offered through Lie Nielsen).
As for chisels, I don't have any experience with the Hirsch chisels. But I have heard rave reviews for the Iles pig stickers (Look for them at Tools for Working Wood). If money is a concern, just buy the size of chisel you need for the mortise you want to cut. You can always add more chisels later. I'd personally rather have one nice tool than a dozen of questionable quality. I'm not saying that the Hirsch is lower quality, but from what I've heard, I don't think it is in the same league as the Isles. I purchased the Lie Nielsen mortise chisels. But that was before the Isles were on the market. If the Isles had been around, I may have chosen differently. And I may even purchase some of the Isles regardless. That said, I have been extremely pleased with my LNs. Some folks have claimed that the LNs are "sash chisels" meant for lighter duty work. They may look like sash chisels, but they certainly hold up under heavy duty work in dense woods. They performed beautifully when I chopped out the 2.5" deep mortises in hard maple for my workbench. No complaints here.
HH
What woods have you chopped mortices in, and how different were they? I am thinking about going the mortise chisel route for some end tables and am thinking about mesquite. I'd like to know what your experience is in different woods. Thanks. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Obviously, its easier (takes less effort) to chop a mortise in soft wood than dense wood. But I wouldn't say that it is more difficult to get a good mortise in woods of different densities. If you have a sharp chisel, a good mallet, and crisp layout lines, there won't be a big problem with any wood. The only difference is that it may take a little longer to complete the mortise in a super dense wood like hard maple because you'll have to take smaller bites. But even at the slower pace in dense woods I think you'll be surprised at how fast you can chop a mortise by hand.
Thanks. I think I'll give it a go--I get to buy a new tool! If I don't build the tables out of mesquite I'll use mahogany. I've seen the video by Frank Klaus chopping mortises in mahogany--looks absolutely intoxicating. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Houston,
I find it much easier to chop mortises in hard wood than in soft.
Rich
Thank you very much for the input. I was hoping someone wasn't going to say I am crazy for wanting to do this by hand!
Faus,
I am experienced in various methods of machine-made mortises but am a newbie to handcut mortises with chisels. In fact, this very afternoon I chopped 8 with a Hirch mortise chisel. I have cut a couple of dozen previously, no more.
The first point to note is that it takes a lot longer to handchop the rascals with a chisel than it does to do them with, say, a router - even taking the setup times into consideration. I suppose that with pratice, hand chopping gets a bit faster; but it is inherenty slower to remove wood without the 2 or 3 horsepower help.
Handcut mortises have to be carefully marked out, in addition. I have never used marking out when making machine cut mortises (usually with a woodrat/router or a router+fences) apart from setting a stop or two to ensure all the mortises are made in the same, or matching, location in every piece, in approximately the corret location. The tooling of woodrat and router-bit defines the mortise size and depth.
It is also harder to make a neat handcut mortise - although not as hard as I thought it would be. Correct stance and careful alignment of the chisel when starting the mortise is important, if skewed frames and stepped joints are to be avoided.
Of course, handcut mortises are cheaper in terms of the tooling costs. Also, it is satifying to have that basic skill. Whacking holes with a mallet and a sharp implement is.....Neanderthal! :-)
So far, I have not made a handcut mortise that is as precise as a woodrat-made mortise. In time, I hope my chopping skills will improve and allow me to get neater holes - but a machine-cut mortise will always be more precise, I think. Nevertheless, the handcut ones are fit-for-purpose - they look less neat but provide a good, tight fit.
It's good to have the option to do both. If I was commercially-motivated, it would be machines. If time and effort are freely available to you (ie yor WW is a hobby) the hand cutting of mortises may be both cheaper and more satisfying - unless you seek perfection or close to it. If you want a piston-fit M&T, you need a machine; or possibly a great deal of practice at hand chopping).
****
I have Sorby HSS lathe chisels, which are great. I have heard that Sorby mortise chisels are a shade "soft" compared to Hirch - but I don't know via my own experience. The Hirch (Two Cherries) mortise chisels I bought have kept their edges well and are well-made (straight, leather washer, metal hoops and so forth); although they have an annoying laquer on the blades, cheap-looking varnish on the handles and slightly dubbed-over edges - which are soon removed with an inital honing. (The lacquer and varnish come off easily with nail-polish remover).
Wanda (another Knots denizen) did get a Hirch mortiser which was bent - but I think it was exchanged for a straight one, no problem.
Lataxe
great answer, Lataxe - quick additional question: do you use a swan neck chisel to clean out the bottom of the mortise?
fausoni,
I'm going to give you a "backwards answer" to your question. I prefer to use a router, or a horizontal mortiser than hand chopping them. But only beacuse I can do it by hand. Once I learned to do it well by hand, I found it simply tedious to do. And I don't like tedium. Doing it by machine is potentially much more accurate, but it then requires more care in getting things set up. I like to do that.
Chopping mortises by hand, like cutting dovetails is a skill anyone can learn to do well. It is not a hard thing to do. There is some unnecessary mystery and myth that it's hard. It's not. And everyione should learn to do it well before relying on a router. My router mortises are much better than they would be if I had never learned to chop by hand.
And for many, hand chopping mortises can be a very satisfying experience. Some people would never do it any other way. After all, it is as close to carving as some of us get.
Rich
Edited 1/11/2007 6:20 pm ET by Rich14
Rich,
Thank you. I think with the responses that I have received today, I am going to chop them by hand. It also sounds like the Isles are the best mortise chisels available, so I will take a look at those.
A final question for you - or anyone else out there that responded to this discussion and has experience hand-chopping mortises - is a swan neck chisel necessary to get a flat clean bottom? Is it a mere luxury? Or, does good use of the mortise chisel obviate the need for the swan neck?
Swan-neck chisels will help get clean mortise bottoms -- but why do you want them? A clean bottom will not add to the structural integrity of the joint and, once they are together, you'll never see 'em again. (I usually leave a bit of extra room at the bottom anyway for excess glue to escape to.)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike, Faus & Kummell,
I am using swan-neck chisels to help extract the chips after they are cut. In very hard woods, I feel reluctant to risk the cutting tip of the mortise chisel itself as a lever, beyond a certain pressure.
I have 6, 8 and 12mm mortise chisels with a 6 and 12mm swan neck (the 6mm swan neck will do 8mm mortise excavation too).
The swan-necks do allow a clean bottom to be created but, as you say Mike, why bother? They do help to rid the bottom of any significant bumps that uneven chopping has left; but mostly they seem to serve best as a general chip-excavator.
It helps that the round part of the swan neck levers against the mortise wall, when excavating, rather than against the lip along the short edge of the mortise entrance. I crushed a lip or two by levering with the mortising chisel during my first mortising experiments.
Two Cherries was my choice because the Iles are twice the price here in the UK; and I read a report or two about some examples being significantly bent (although they were exchanged with no problem). But then there was Wanda's bent Two Cherries mortiser, so maybe the Iles are no worse in this respect......
When I cleaned the varnish off, I also put flats on the (round) handles of the Two Cherries, aligned with the blade. This does seem to help one's eyeing-up of the chisel & the work, in order to cut straight mortises from the off. I believe this is why the Iles pigsticker handles are the ovoid shape they are - to help align one's chops right.
Lataxe
"I am using swan-neck chisels to help extract the chips after they are cut. In very hard woods, I feel reluctant to risk the cutting tip of the mortise chisel itself as a lever, beyond a certain pressure."
True enough. I only use a second chisel as a last resort though. I often find that just taking a chop or two on the large chips break them up enough to get 'em out. That saves taking the time to swap chisels back and forth. I'd love to get some of the "pig-sticker" style chisels. I've used them in the past and they seemed to make it easier to lift the chips out as well since they don't tend to get stuck in the mortise as much. I've got a few on my "List of Things to Buy", but the last time I checked, the sizes I wanted were out.
"It helps that the round part of the swan neck levers against the mortise wall, when excavating, rather than against the lip along the short edge of the mortise entrance. I crushed a lip or two by levering with the mortising chisel during my first mortising experiments."
Yeah. Trashing a corner is always a "gotcha" when doing hand mortising. I learned early on to leave my mortises about 1/8" shy of the end lines, and clean up to the line as the last part of the job.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Router works pretty good. This set up independent of workpiece section!
The router is gratingly loud and messy.
The chisel and mallet pleasantly punctuate your progress with rythmic reports and produce a much more local set of chips with no dust.
A router likely requires the building of a simple jig to guide the router and permit easy repeatability. The router takes less practice and less skill to do well.
The chisel and mallet method benefits from well struck sliced marks put in with a wheel marker and marking knife.
You can be set up with a very good router and bit for $250 or less and the router will cut your tenons as well. The marking tools, chisels, mallet, and saws need to do both mortise and tenons by hand, likely approach a similar cost if you buy at least middle quality tools.
The pig stickers are the best in my opinion - either vintage ones or the Isles.
fausonj,
You have gotten some great responses from some great people. Now you see why Knots if so much fun. You ask a question that you think is simple, and you get back 15 answers which are completely different. Why is that? The answer is simple: there is no one method of doing anything in woodwork, which is best for everyone. As a matter of fact, you should think of woodworking as "love". Love is different things to different people and it is different things to the same people at different times. No different with woodwork. You can get very excited about chopping mortises by hand now, and later get very excited about using a Tage Frid U-shaped jig for cutting them with a router.
I have always like reading the messages of Lataxe. He is widely experienced and is a straight shooter. He doesn't try to impress you, or tell you that his way is the only way. AND he is always trying new things. His take on chopping mortises by hand is a great one.
Routerman is a guy named Pat Warner who has written many books on routers. He comes at things from a "router point of view." But I have tried different ways of making mortises and at this stage in my development, I agree with him. NOTE I am not saying that the router method is best. It is merely the one that he recommends, and the one that I use most of the time. Go to Pat Warner's website. You will learn an immense amount of stuff. I have never seen a person more concerned about precision and control. If you learn from Pat, you are precise and safe.
Others and Lataxe have pointed out that it is nice to have a second type of chisel to help in cleaning out mortises. You may not have been aware of that when you started thinking about it.
Here is my recommendation to you. Read what everyone else has to say. Then make mortises a number of different ways. Then you will have the first-hand experience to make up your own mind what way of chopping mortises that makes you the happiest.
Remember, woodworking is like "love". Everybody does it differently, and all are right. (some are safer than others) (some are more prolific than others) (some are more efficient than others) BUT ultimately, the way to cut mortises, the way to sharpen your tools, the way to do a french polish, the way to carve shells, the way to ..... etc etc etc, are all very personal decisions. "Best" is, at best, NOT an operationally definable concept with a generally accepted definition.
That is why woodworking is so great. We can discuss everything for a long period of time, and we can have the discussions again and again.
I really enjoy Knots. I believe it is the "Best" value in woodworking education in the world. The thing I learned quickest on Knots is that there is not one best tool for anything, there is not one best brand, there is not one best technique for everyone. Woodworking is like love. It is very personal.
As the Master in the old Kung Fu TV series might say: "Ah grasshopper, so you are interested in learning about woodwork. Come and study at the temple. When you understand that you are one with the universe, you will be ready to take on your own apprentices. Let the board dictate its use. Let the grain show itself. Let the type of wood make the decisions as to its use. Understand that the tools are merely extentions of your mind. They merely let you amplify what your mind can do. That is why you must concentrate on training your mind. When your mind is trained, the tool will naturally go where you wish it to. Then you and the tool have become one. Go in peace, grasshopper, and learn to make great furniture. But focus on the mind and the skills first, not the technique or the tool."
I hope that last paragraph explained everything. :-)
Enjoy.
Mel
PS I hope you can tell that I enjoy using humor and analogies in explaining things. I took it that your two main questions were: What is the best way to make mortises, and what is the best brand of mortise chisels? My answer is that your questions are not worded in such a way as to get you to the "truth". In truth, there are no generally accepted answers to either of your questions. Once you come to realize that, you can move on. Seriously, I recommend that when you learn how to sharpen tools, how to do carving, how to use hand planes, etc etc, that you try lots of different tools and techniques, and make up your own mind. "Discovery Learning" is far more valuable than "Didactic learning" in which someone answers your question and you don't have the background to make your own conclusions."
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel said: "Here is my recommendation to you. Read what everyone else has to say. Then make mortises a number of different ways. Then you will have the first-hand experience to make up your own mind what way of chopping mortises that makes you the happiest."
I agree, but with one note of caution. Like everything else, there is a learning curve to woodworking. Whether you are using a router or a chisel, your first attempt at creating a mortise will not be as good as your second, or third, or one-hundredth. You have to give yourself time to master the skill. One mistake that many new woodworkers make (I've especially noticed this with sharpening) is to abandon a particular methodology before giving yourself time to get up the learning curve. The problem with jumping from methodology to methodology is that you just jump from the bottom of one learning curve to the bottom of another without ever getting far enough up any of them enough to get a good result (jack of all trades, master of none). The cycle can be discouraging, not to mention expensive.
My advice is to pick one methodology (router or chisel) and master it. You probably already have a good sense of which tool you find more appealing. Then, after you've given yourself time to master that skill, try out others as the occasion arises. If you do this, then you know that when the chips are down you have mastered one way of creating a perfect mortise and tenon. That's a comforting thought, especially when you're staring at an expensive piece of figured bubinga you purchased from Gilmer's.
HH,
You make a good point about practice making perfect (or at least, better). Some in the thread have said that handcutting a mortise is easy; and I agree - with a little proviso that it depends on the standard of mortise you aspire to.
Having got used to the perfection of Woodrat-cut M&Ts a handcut mortise, no matter how even and straight, still looks comparatively rough to me. Same with a handsawn tenon, which can be easily sawn and planed to the correct dimension but does not have the crispness that a climb cut tenon from the Woodrat has.
As Mike explained, one needs to accept the nature of handcut M&T - to understand that they just have to fit and to work, not look perfect. Then it is just a matter of careful marking out, careful chopping, careful.....everything. When it comes out right you do feel good, though.
Rich mentioned the alternative method of drilling then paring the line of drill holes, to make the mortise. Before my current bout of handtool work, I began (over a year ago) with green woodwork, including ladderback chairs. These chairs need 8 mortises each cut in their round posts, for the back slats.
My chairmaking tutor used the drill & pare method, so I did too. In wet ash, at least, it takes ages and is prone to much more errror than the use of a mortise chisel. Typically, it was easy to get the (brace&bit) drill holes misaligned and to over-pare the sides of the mortise.
On the other hand, use of an auger bit with a known tpi at the tip, in a brace, allows you to set the mortise depth very accurately - important with the chairs where there is no leeway at the bottom of the mortise because it must end up just 4mm from breakout on the outside of the chair post. Chopping these with a mortise chisel would be fraught with the risk of breakout.
Of course, wet ash is also fibrous and hornery to chop through the grain. The drill & pare method might be a lot easier in "dry" timber - although I have read reports of the aforementioned difficulties arising even then, if one is not careful......? Perhaps a drill press and a vertical paring guide would help?
Lataxe
Edited 1/12/2007 1:46 pm ET by Lataxe
HH,
I couldn't agree more that every woodworking technique requires experience to master. It is the same for tools. Each one requires time, experience and patience to master. I wouldn't wait to become a MASTER in the first mortising technique that I tried, before trying the second. Just get "good enough". Then try the next. As someone said, how much experience does it take to chop a mortise by hand. If you make a face frame, no one will see your mortises, and it really doesn't matter if they are very tight. You'll get better with time. This isn't very taxing stuff. It's just making rectangular holes in pieces of wood.This line of reasoning can be strung out. For example: Should one tell the student that he must become extremely proficient in sharpening before he even starts chopping his first mortise? I have been sharpening for a long time, and I am still getting better at it. I would recommend learning the two in parallel. I have seen folks learn to cut dovetails with a dozuki and then try a Western style saw and just get angry at it. Not enough practice!!! It is good to give tools and techniques a fair shake by getting the necessary skills before making a final judgment. I have not yet tried Tage Frid's bow-saw for dovetails. I plan to make one and to give it a try. I expect it will take some time to master. But it should be fun. I believe that experienced woodworkers often "scare" newbies with tales of how difficult and mysterious it is to master the art of the dovetail, or the French Polish, or of the mortise and tenon, etc. Too often, experienced woodworkers focus on "the Best tool" (is it Lie Nielsen or Lee Valley???) which makes newbies worry that they don't have either the best tool, or the best technique, or the skill. Rather then try things, the student just freezes out of anxiety. (Paralysis by analysis.) They get what psychologists call "Fear of Failure". It is better to focus on "Need for Achievement". I try to get newbies away from "fear" of learning, while keeping them cognizant of safety. I want newbies to be excited, not afraid to tackle new techniques and tools. I encourage them to:
1) try multiple techniques for the same end.
2) try different tools and brands.
3) get the learning and the experience yourself.
4) NEVER ask anyone else which tool or technique is best, because there is no best.
5) ask others to help you learn techniques, and to open your mind to new approaches, but then take the responsibility to make your own decisions. This approach is not for everyone. The old masters taught by the apprentice method in which you did only what your were told, the way you were told, and you swept the floor a lot during your first year. My approach is diametrically opposed to that. I want them excited and curious while remaining safe. I want them to take control of their own learning as soon as possible. One way to help them learn that is to give some hints on how to ask questions and which type of questions to ask to get the best information. I hope that explains why I answered him the way I did. It might be fun someday to start a thread on different approaches to teaching/learning woodworking. I know that you didn't mean to, but your posts have gotten me thinking about this. It would really be a fun topic. Sorry I wrote so much. My mind started to think on its own. I'll try to control it better. :-) I actually have been thinking about this stuff for quite a while. Your message somehow caused me to try writing it out. Now I'll have to read it and see how it sounds. I just reread your message. I think we think a little differently about these things, which is what makes Knots such a wonderful place.
Have a great day,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
"This line of reasoning can be strung out. For example: Should one tell the student that he must become extremely proficient in sharpening before he even starts chopping his first mortise? I have been sharpening for a long time, and I am still getting better at it. I would recommend learning the two in parallel."
That's not at all what I'm saying, and I don't think my reasoning leads to that. My point is that after researching the various ways of sharpening (to take your example), choose one and stick with it long enough to do it well. It seems like so many people start with one sharpening method, get frustrated with their initial sharpening attempts, abandon it, and drop a lot of cash on something else, only to face further frustration with their initial attempts. After a period of time they have a Tormek, a set of nortons, a bunch of sandpaper, various honing guides, none of which they can use very well, so they start shopping for Shaptons.
The same reasoning applies to this series of posts. The original poster indicated that he is new to woodworking and would like to try out a project with mortise and tenon joinery. He stated that he's considering chopping the mortises by hand and asked if that was feasible. My response was yes, and tried to direct him to some helpful resources for learning how to do so. Your response was that there are lots of ways of creating a mortise and that he should try several to find which suit him best. I personally think that advice leads down the path to "analysis paralysis" more than telling him how become skilled at the task he asked about.
Houstonheights,
I purchased an Iles Pigsticker and am attempting to work my way up the learning curve in poplar. I think I am getting the hang of chopping the mortise itself but have not yet been pleased with the results of the tenons that I've cut. That is, I am cutting the tenons by hand and they just don't seem to fit together as well as I like. And note, while I'm not expecting nor trying to reach aerospace-type tolerances, the tenon and mortise aren't as clean and flush as I would like them to be.
So I am looking for advice in two respects:
First, when handchopping mortises, how level do you look to get the bottom? I find that the bottom of my mortises aren't always consistent in height and clean. I suppose I'm trying to get a sense of how consistently flat the bottom should be (realizing that it cannot fluctuate wildly).
Secondly, have you cut tenons by hand? If so, do you have any general tips for getting a nice, snug fitting tenon? I am using a combination marking tool and have a been trying to cut right through the marked lines with my backsaw, then clean up as needed with a shoulder plane.
Any advice you have as to your methods are appreciated.
who cares what the bottom of the mortise looks like? as long as it is deep enough to fully accept the tenon.
leave then tenon oversized and then use a shoulder plane to sneak up on the proper fit.
A very nice post.I have done a fair amount of steel fabrication and welding, and apreciate being able to make what I wanted to make, but working with wood seems much more friendly and benign. Blacksmithing is a similar feeling. May be because you are shaping and forming metal, rather than cut-weld-grind of steel fabrication. But with all of it there is a sense of accomplishment of creating something from raw stock.
ptu,
Thank you for the very nice words. I have never tried blacksmithing. The closest I have come to metalwork was to make a plane, including the blade. I learned to cut it, shape it, and temper it. It was great fun and very satisfying. But I have only so much time and only so much space. So I'll stick mostly to woodworking. I enjoyed putting together my two messages today. I am glad you enjoyed them, and that we struck a resonant chord.Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Thank you for the response. Just about everything that you have said is enlightening. Clearly there is technique to every art form but if one becomes so focused on the technique, they lose the art - or at least their capacity to think creatively. My question wasn't meant so much as to ascertain whether there was any "best" way to create a mortise as to whether I am crazy to want to chop mortises by hand.
At any rate, I took people's suggestions to look at the Ray Isle Mortise Chisels. I purchased a 3/8" mortise chisel and will happily use it to produce my mortises. My current project is merely a transom but I see it as a small step to producing much grander things in the future.
Knots is indeed a wonderful place. I've already received much more enriching advice than I had bargained for with such a question.
fausonj,
You are on the right track. Take safety very seriously, and always try to increase your skills. Chop some mortises, make some dovetails, try some French Polish, make some carved furniture. Enjoy the woodworking hobby.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
a few things:
a) it's a relatively easy hand skill compared to others. With only a few tools and a sturdy bench you will be confident and happy with your results quickly. Be warned that you may be the only person ever to be impressed with your results (but that's ok). Aso, chopping mortises may be considered a gateway skill into doing other things by hand.
b) I have personally never needed the swan neck chisel. You may need it down the line, but DO NOT add it to the order that includes your first mortise chisel. Don't fall victim to this advertsing.
c) Don't buy your first chisel without, at least, reading the review of the Ray Iles mortise chisel at toolsforworkingwood.com. If you ultimately purchase one of these tools I assure you that you will not consider a different brand when purchasing #2. There are very few products out there in any aspect of woodworking that can boast this, none of which only cost $80.
In all this discussion, It is a little surprising not to see mention of a well-known method that makes life quite a bit easier for the craftsman in achieving good, rapid mortise work. The technique has been described by Tage Frid and Ian Kirby and I recall several articles long ago in FWW but none in recent memory.
Remove as much of the mortise as possible with a drill bit before starting to use your mortise chisel. Tage advocated the use of a drill guide and drill bits ground to produce a flat bottom. But free-hand drilling is possible or using a drill press, of course gives good results. Use a bit somewhat smaller than the width of the mortise.
The flat bottom isn't important but hogging out the majority of the wood first, then "cleaning up" with a mortise chisel and paring the sides with a bench chisel was his method of work.
Rich
Edited 1/12/2007 12:23 pm ET by Rich14
Fausonj,
What I do is clamp my chain morticer onto the timber and pull the lever.. <G>
Oh, You aren't planning on building a timberframe?
OK smaller mortices use a simple forstner bit.. to hog out most of the material. I like to do it on the drill press but you can do it with a hand drill if you want..
Since you can safely overlap a forstner bit with the previous drilled hole you can really remove most of the wood. Tleaving ontly the "tuneup" part to clean out.. much faster thantrying to set up for a router or chopping the waste wood out by hand. NO screaming router to listen to.
Lataxe,
I have "chopped" mortices by first drilling out most of the waste. The rest of the process goes very quickly and easily. It's not even necessary to use a mortise chisel. A very sharp bench chisel is necessary (when isn't it?).
Ideally, a 3/4" to 1" chisel for the sides, which "self aligns" with the mortice cheek as one slices down with one's body weight, while holding the chisel in both hands. The end of the mortice is cleaned up with a bench chisel a little narrower than the mortice.
This results in vey clean faces and corners.
Rich
Rich
Do you use a drill press or hand held? Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Tom,
Past tense - I used a a portable drill alignment guide that I bought at Sears a long time ago (Port-align?) It isn't made anymore and I lost it in a move somewhere over the years. There are others similar, but they don't work anywhere near as well.
It can be done freehand but any thing that helps you drill straight down, parallel to the intended side walls of the mortise helps. A drill press of course is perfect.
This is quick and easy to use:
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=380
Tage Frid used something like this:
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/fullpres.exe?partnum=109-142
It's not the centering from side to side that's important, it's that the jig aids in vertical drilling.
Rich
I'm glad to hear that. I don't have a drill press yet, and I thought with a square and my eye I should be able to get very close to square, at least close enough for jazz. Thanks. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
War story: Many years ago I worked with a fairly proficient woodworking hobbyist. He decided to try hand chopped mortises and bought a mallet and a couple Marples mortise chisels. He had read that getting the chisel aligned properly for the first chop was critical to a good mortise. He had an OHNO moment when he started swinging the mallet but couldn't stop it. In his effort to get the chisel aligned just right, he had placed his thumb on top of the chisel. Needless to say, he had his thumb in a big bandage for a couple weeks.
Best of luck with your efforts.
George
I just purchased a set of mortising chisels from Hartvilletools and they are great, i do a lot of woodcarving with professional carving tools called Dastra made in Germany since 1835. And these mortising chisels are also made in Germany. If you are not satisfied with the tools they will refund your money.
First of all, either one of those chisel brands will work fine. Don't get too caught up in the tool debates or you'll never get any woodworking done. I have Two Cherries mortise chisels and they work fine. I don't know if they hold their edge longer than other brands because I've chosen not to duplicate my investment and waste my time trying to find out. It's pure silly-ness. Life is too short by magnitudes.
Go here to learn how to make M&T joints by hand:
http://www.amgron.clara.net/
You don't need to level the bottom of a mortise because the end of the tenon never hits it anyway. Chop it a 16th deeper than the tenon is long. End grain does not glue anyway.
Edited 3/1/2007 7:38 am ET by VeriestTyro
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