Replies

1. 
   robkelly | Apr 09, 2004 06:11pm | #1

   A kneeler rotates on a stub dowel about 1 to 1.25" dia. The same dowel can be used for the next kneeler if the geometry is right.

1. 
   Jimma | Apr 09, 2004 07:17pm | #2

   Thanks, Rob. Does the dowel go through or end inside the arm of the kneeler? Also, what might be the typical way to stop and hold the kneeler in the up position -- another dowel?

1. 
   BG | Apr 10, 2004 12:17am | #3

   Jim,

   I've never seen two kneelers quite the same.  But it would seem your questions are focused on taking an existing kneeler and attaching it so it can be raised and lowered easily.  In our church we do have kneelers attached with dowels....with a routed tract so they can be lifted up and removed.  Also, another dowel supports the kneeler in the up position.  Having spent a bit of time using kneelers I can tell you the distance from the back of the pew is important...not enough and your belly gets in the way when you try to straighten....to much and you can't stand in the pew with the kneeler down.  Also, weight of the kneeler is an issue when lowering and raising..  

2. 
   robkelly | Apr 10, 2004 10:42pm | #4

   The dowel goes through. That way you can drive it into the hole in the pew, which does not go through, unless it's a "center pew support" which supports 2 kneelers. In the up position it's supported by gravity resting it against a support,  which can be a dowel or a small block. Geometry is important. Do a mock-up first.  It is important for comfort that the board one kneels on be exactly parallel to the floor, otherwise the churchgoer will, instead of praying for whatever, be cursing the guy who made the slanted kneeler, and since he or she is in a place where God is in the habit of listening to people, this will be a much more effective curse than the random curse that gets thrown at you when you cut someone off in traffic.

   Edited 4/10/2004 3:51 pm ET by rob

2. 
   mrles | Apr 10, 2004 10:54pm | #5

   Jim

   The kneelers in my church are probably only about 50 years old and were commercially made. They pivot on a metal stud bolt and have another stud they rest against when in the up position. You might contact a church furniture manufacture and buy the hardware. We had a problem with some of our kneelers protruding too far into the foot space when in the up position and several people banged the top of their foot on them. I took them off and trimmed the corner off some, they had only been there about 45 years.

   Gods Peace

   les

1. 
   Jimma | Apr 11, 2004 12:54am | #6

   Thanks again, Rob, and BG and Les as well. The metal kneelers are known as Atwood-Hamlin Kneelers and came into use, I've been told, about 50 years ago. The wooden kind, which probably predate Peter (hard to believe anything predates peter [!]), are what I'm interested in because my project is in a 19th century chapel that locals treasure for both its antiquity and its mostly heart cypress construction including the furnishings. It's really quite an impressive small church that served the Episcopal community of Maitland, Florida for many generations until a larger church supplanted it for regular services on the same site around 1960 or '70. I've done projects for both the church and the old chapel over the years, some original and some restorations although I'm not a parishioner. The current project is to replace a flimsy pull-out kneeler for the sacristy prayer bench with an upgrade to welcome their new paster. Since the prayer bench is a truly beautiful piece of simple 19th century church furniture made of very thick wood -- maybe two-inch thick figured heart cypress sides -- and aged to a deep almost-walnut color, the staff is quite firm about having the new kneeler match the old stuff. Therefor my need for a restoration approach rather than just plunging ahead with whatever works. We're after "authenticity" here. I appreciate your input, Rob, about the wooden approach and will make a little mockup in the shop to test the geometry prior to submitting my quote.

   As for nasty drivers, I've taken the "precursor" approach. This involves getting in your truck or car and, before you start out, you pre-curse all the other drivers you're going to meet because you know you'll be too busy avoiding 'em once you start out to come up with a proper curse when underway. Very satisfying to do, but first look around before somebody detects a goofball vigorously talking to himself in the driver's seat!

1. 
   ian | Apr 11, 2004 12:21pm | #7

   my project is in a 19th century chapel that locals treasure for both its antiquity and its mostly heart cypress construction including the furnishings.  We're after "authenticity" here

   sounds as though it could be quite a challenge.  are you trying to match the look and feel of the original pews including the heart cypress?   It is possible that the pews were shaped by hand with an aze.  authenticity is always tricky, where does sensitive in keeping with the original modifications stop and out of place and character changes take over? 

   My initial thoughts are to replace the "flimsey" pull-out kneelers with better built (maybe even upulstered) pull-outs rather than compromise the authenticity of the original pews by attaching new kneelers to them.  The parish may like to check whether the back of the pews are shaped the right way for the kneelers not to look out of place.   but I'm not your client. 

   Ian