Circular saw-Worm Drive vs side-spinning
woodenfish3
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I know that in general carpentry most carpenters prefer worm drive. Someone told me that it is the torque.
Does worm drive cut more smoothly in cabinetry? Does it transmit power more uniformly? Is rotation of the blade more stable in speed (so less chance for any jerky motion)?
Do many use and prefer the worm drive in fine wwing, to cut 3/4 plywwod and mdf?
I think the worm drive has a lower profile, is it true?
One hybrid saw does not need oiling. I think it is the Makita. It is also not very expensive.
Replies
Having used both and having a pc sidewinder I prefer the worm drive Skillmag77 I think they follow a line easier and if you use one for a while they become an extention of your arm. Even though they weigh more when my PC sidewinder dies I will replace it with a wormdrive.
Good luck
Troy
You know, if you ask this question over at Breaktime you will get a lot of very heated responses (and at least 5 people telling to to do a search on the topic). But yours is a slightly different question. I am not entirely sure why people prefer one type over the other-usually it's pretty personal. though you'll see the worm-drive saws more so on the West coast and sidewinders on the east.
That said, I have had both for years. I use the worm-drive for framing lumber and the sidewinder for breaking down sheet goods for cabinetry. I like the sidewinder for the sheet goods because )a it is lighter and b) I use my new Smart Guide.
The worm-drive saw is reputed to last longer than a sidewinder on construction sites, but I can't vouch for that. I can tell you for sure that there is much more torque in a worm-drive, and the WD saws are quieter. The blade spins slower too.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
Edited 2/4/2006 9:44 pm ET by JJV
Edited 2/4/2006 9:44 pm ET by JJV
I have 2 twenty year old skil 77 that have outlasted 5 sidewinders I use the worm drives to cut down sheet goods for cabinets and such. 1 has a 24 tooth combination blade and the other has a 40 tooth blade for crosscutting less tear out with the slower worm drive for sheet goods . and they both have built 50 plus decks and 10 houses
Dumpster Sally (The saw, not Finbar in the Elizabethan collar)
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I found the old 8.25" saw in a scrap-metal dumpster, all it needed was a new cord. I used the saw to cut full depth, in one pass, a big hunk of angelique. I'd even had the set of the blade increased to enable me to cut a bit of an arc. What a beast. A sidewinder will do well for wimpy stuff, but when ya got some real work to do there ain't nothing like a wormdrive.
I prefer a wormdrive for framing, which would include cutting sheet goods (sheathing) free hand with a chauk line.
But that's not what you're talking about. For cutting sheet goods, I think a sidewinder works better. As long as you are using a guide -- either a homemade shooting board, or one of the commercial guides (such as EZ Smart). Festool is another, but you must use their saw on their guide.
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"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I have the PC WD and love it. I use it for cutting sheet goods down to size. I put a Forrest blade on it, and use a strait edge. The edges are ready to glue. It's my poorman's panel saw so to speak. The magnesium base is light, and I like the easy measuring capability. The blade is an even measure from the left and right side of base which makes it ease to set the strait edge. I'm a lefty, and always hated how the sawdust blew on me. With the WD it's ejected to the side (when I'm not using my dust colletion hose attachment). I have another old, old, (weighs a ton) skill saw, for general carpentry use. Take care.
I've used and abused both in the shop and on construction. The wormdrive wins hands down for every possible use.
I've got a Bosch and love it. It's lightweight compared to the old hogs. The Skill 77 is good too, a pal has one of the mag-lights. It was my second choice.
I've never used a worm drive but a magazine test a couple of years ago showed the worm drive to be much heavier and it cut more slowly.
well to add to the confusion...
A few years ago, I was working on a project, a refit of a 100' schooner, where we were replanking with 3" white oak and longleaf pine. Each of us were using our own saw. One guy had an 8 1/4" wormdrive, I think a Skil. Another guy had a 10" Milwaukee direct drive, and I have a DeWalt 8 1/4" direct drive. Both 8 1/4" saws had the same blade. My saw cut way faster than either of the other saws, the 10" being by far the slowest. This came as a bit of a surprise to all of us, but it was consistantly faster, and seemed to be as accurate.
I believe that decades ago, when power tool motors weren't as powerful, a worm drive gave a gear reduction which translated to more torque and better performance compared to direct drives of the day. Now, it seems that all circular saws have 15 amp motors, which is the most you can reliably use plugged into common house current, and they all have about the same power, and in my opinion is plenty, whether it's a direct drive or a worm drive. The blade must turn more slowly in the worm drive and therefore cuts slower. The worm drive is also going to be heavier, which can be a blessing and a curse. I really believe that worm drive saws have had their day.
More than anything I think it is an ergonomics thing on the better saws. If you get used to one the other seems strange. That being said I would still buy the worm drive for that reason although I am sure there are plenty of people with more skill (pardon the pun) and experiance than me that would go with the sidewinder.Troy
Framing and heavy beams etc, call for my Skil Mag 77--I have but don't have much use for it. Even tho it's features a Mg frame, it still pretty heavy--13 #.
Breaking sheetgoods my Skil sidewinder works great with a quality blade. Hate the dust control, and will eventually design and build a better setup.
If you get the EZ Guide Syystem, you, working carefully, can easily turn out final- dimension panels for cabinets. It's so good, that you could get rid of your tablesaw if so inclined.
BTW, the EZ System requires a right blade--the big Skil doesn't work here.
Also, I have a small 6" blade 18 volt circular saw that I use a lot.
Based on my personal experience, a worm drive is easier to steer, to cut a straight line with. That being said, I think that the Dewalt "modified" WD is the easiest to use and steer or guide along a line. It is a bit over 3#s lighter than other WDs, and the handle position is definitely a huge ergonomic improvement over the others. The closer handle does make it easier to guide along cut lines. If weight is an issue and all that you will use it for is shop stuff, breaking down panels, etc., you might consider the PC Trim Saw. Uses 4 1/2" blades and weighs around 4 # or so? It is a right handed baby wormdrive that is a joy to use in the shop. Make your own cutoff guides with 1/4" ply and it is as accurate as any high dollar panel saw for a whole lot less. Word of caution, this saw WILL NOT CUT 2X ANYTHING in 1 pass. Check with Tool King to see about a reconditioned unit to save a few $$'s. Have used mine to cut veneered panel with a new plywood blade on several kitchen installs, impressive quality of cut and very little noise. Best of luck to you.
The wormdrive is preferred for general carpentry because the angle is easier to follow on a long cut and it has more torque. Most general carpentry has a lot of "green" or wet wood. The saw will need a lot more horsepower to plow through a pile of wet 2x10s when framing. I've burned up my sidewinder before.
The Makita and the Dewalt are Hypoid saws. They're slightly different than the Skil and Bosch wormdrives. Wormdrives have their gears in an oil bath. You have to change out the oil on occasion. The Makita and Dewalt have gearboxes that place the motor at an angle to the rotation of the blade. They have more torque too, but they don't require the oil bath.
I use my Dewalt Hypoid saw when framing or fencing. I use a cordless sidewinder for cutting down my sheetgoods for my woodworking shop.
Rod
I have been told that it was more of a regional preferance than anything else.
Having used both types of saws quite a bit, this is my take. Hopefully it is useful info for you.
1. more torque, less torque doesn't seem to matter much, a decent saw of either kind will cut through a whole lot of wood, concrete, steel, plastic, etc with the right blade. Both will bog down if the blade gets twisted in the kerf.
2.neither saw will last for ever, with hard worksite use good versions of both types seem to last about 4 or so years before they die, worm drives may tend to last a little longer, perhaps, but they also cost quite a bit more, so I don't know if they are better value.
3.worm drives are a little longer and hence it is a little easier to reach across a 4ft sheet of plywood or similar.
4.the torque of the worm drives does have a down side in that it moves the saw away from th cut line on start up, also some times it can be a literal pain in the wrist (this is especially the case with Makita's hypoid drive (essentially a worm drive), which tries to turn itself upside down every time you pull the trigger).
5.worm drives are heavy! sidewinders lighter, a big deal if you have to do any cutting above shoulder level, and heavier saws are just more tiring to use in general.
6.at odds with what someone else said, I think the worm drives produce more tear-out, but I can't say I have really looked into this. I think the blade has more influence than the saw in this respect, tear-out is pretty much inversely correlated with blade cost, ie. Oldham Chinese blades = max. tear-out, Freud Italian blades = min. tear-out (as an aside, cheap blades are a false economy; they don't cut as well, seem to make the motor work harder (reduced saw life?), and last about 25% as long).
7. I think all worm drives have the blade on the left which gives better visibility of the cut, but also puts all the weight of the saw off the end of the board if you are right handed and are cutting a small amount off the end of the board (of course the reverse is true for left handers), side winders come in both varieties so you can pick your poison!
Finally, pick a saw with decent power 13-15 Amps. If I was buying a saw today I would look at the Skil Mag 77, the DeWalt worm(not even sure if it is a regular worm drive, but it is similar to use), and the Milwaukee tilt lock, I would probably end up with the latter in my truck. Saws to avoid, the Makita hypoid (for the reason mentioned above) and Bosch worm(prone to breakage), and of course all the cheap handy man specials put out by Skil, Black & Decker, etc with their lack of power and annoying safety switches that just make the saw more dangerous to use 'cause you are struggling to get the saw to operate rather than concentrating on the task at hand.
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