Hi,
I’m in the market for clamps. I have only 5 C clamps in my workshop (8″/6″/2″) I find them to be very useful and have used them alot. The only other 2 in my limited collection are 2 24″ quick release Bar clamps.
Should I consider purchasing a pair of pony pipe clamps which are only limited by the length of the bar you attach them to? or should I invest in a few quality Bessey clamps. The Bessey clamps are perhaps easier to work with than the pipe clamps. Less likely to crush wood fibers. Therefore there is no need to use shims to protect the surface of the wood. Plus glue doesn’t stick to them. They might be worth the investment.
What sizes would you recommend for the majority of small/medium woodworking project? (such as putting together frame and panel doors/ bookcases/ bedside table/ chest of drawers/ small cabinets) just thinking of the various projects I’m likely to be building.
And how about the Irwin clamps how do they stack up against the Bessey clamps? Are quick release bar clamps ok for clamping together bookcases and cabinets? Think they apply approx. 550lbs of pressure. or would pipe clamps be better for that application?
I know you can never have too many clamps.. if only they didn’t cost so much!
Wanda
Replies
I can't answer your question.
I guess because I think it really depends on how you work. If you want to work with traditional joinery and hide glue, you can get away with few or maybe even no clamps. The need for clamps stems from modern joinery's reliance on glue joints and PVA glue. I think you're smart to be thinking in terms of pressure delivered (which isn't the same as the number you offered, but I'm guessing you know that).
I really like the convenience of the quick grip clamps, but I would swear my older VISE quick grip clamps are better than the new Irwins. And neither are/were cheap. I have a range of sizes of these. I have 8 5' pipe clamps I've used to make table tops and a few work benches. These are invaluable so I think this is a good place to start. Just be sure to price the pipe and the threads when you comparison shop between difference styles of clamps. I also bought the rubber "cheese" protectors. So the per clamp price including pipe and cheese was well into the teens of dollars. Not cheap by my standards.
I have a wolfcraft(?) band clamp that I like. Got it as a gift so no idea how much it cost. I used rope before that and this band clamp is a lot nicer to use.
So I don't have any recommendations for you. Sorry. I would say having only many long clamps is not convenient. I like short clamps for short jobs. Not sure about the besseys, but the Irwin/Quickgrip come in 2', 3', 4' lengths. I really wished they could clamp 2', 3', and 4'. If you want to make a 3' wide table you need the 4' clamps.
Good luck
Adam
I have a collection 1/2 and 3/4 Pony pipe clamps and they arn't used much anymore(not fond of the sloppyness of the jaws) Very fond of my Jorgensen Cabinet master clamps 3- 18"ers and 4- 36"ers. But when I get some more parallel jawed clamps they will be the new Jet clamps which seem pretty substantial for the buck.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Wanda,
I am by no means an expert, but I have lots of clamps, and I have some recommendations.
Pipe clamps: Don't buy pony brand.They run from $10-$15 per clamp. Buy them from harbor freight. Pretty much identical clamps, painted a different color (mine are red), but if you watch for harbor freight to put them on sale, very cheap (I paid $2.95 per clamp for mine. Bought a bunch at one time) Harbor freight has weird pricing, though, you can get 3 catalogs in a row from them with 3 different prices on the same product. Keep your eye out, you can get them for $2.95 to $3.95 on a regular basis. They used to have ads in wood magazine with really good deals like I'm talking about and free shipping ( a few years back)
Bessey clamps: Up until I started my own cabinet shop, I didn't have any, because of the cost. Now I have about 12, and need 20 more. But, along the way I bought 8 or so Gross Stabil clamps from Woodcraft (black and yellow, with Scott Phillip's signature on them). They are cheaper than the bessey's, and in my opinion, much better. The bar seems to be a tad thicker, they come with nice rubber/soft plastic pads on the face of the jaws, and gross stabil claims that all of the parts on the clamping heads are replaceable should that ever be necessary. Oh yeah, did I mention they were cheaper? Most importantly, the 40 inch clamp will clamp 40 inches, The 24 inch clamp will clamp 24 inches, etc. Bessey can't say that. I have tested this in my shop. I can't comment on the Irwins but if those are the "quick grip" type clamps, I wouldn't waste too much money on a bunch of those. I have a total of 4, and find they don't exert as much pressure as I would like. They are ok for holding parts down on your bench to sand or rout or cut with a circular saw, but I believe they have limited use for high pressure clamping situations like furniture construction. I also have a dozen or so "f" style bar clamps, which come in handy, and can be acquired inexpensively (again, try harbor freight). As far as size goes, only you can make that call, because you know the types of projects you build. Longer clamps are more expensive initially, but they can be used for smaller projects. You can't use a small clamp for a large project. I'm not saying fill your shop with the biggest clamps you can get, but take that into consideration. Remember, clamps are something you will need a lot of possibly, so you don't want to sink a ton of money in them if you don't have to. And if you are patient (not like me) you can get by with just a few besseys/stabils and you can plan ahead and just do your glue-ups in stages. Good luck!
Lee
Edited 9/15/2006 12:37 am by mapleman
Nothing is more frustrating than when you clamp a featherboard or stop block in place, or secure stock at the DP and the minor vibrations from machining cause the clamp to loosen-up.
I have solved this problem completely with the Bessy "Click Clamp". They are of the "F" style, have a jaw opening of 5" and a throat of 3". The item number is KLI3.004 KLI12AC. I can't recall the price.
They don't have a screw advance, but instead a lever and a notched cam. They release with a simple push on the red release trigger.
Although I never got any slippage from the "clutch" style "F" clamps, these are a pleasure to use.
Practice...'till you can do it right the first time.
I like the Bessy but I'm going to look at the Jets, If you want pipe clamps you might look at the ones from Rockler. If price is your main concern check out Harbor Freight, they have cheap pipe and bar clamps among others.
Jack
Cheap clamps cause headaches. Good ones won't mark your work, slip or twist while using them. The big difference is in the cutting of the screw threads. The various brands may look similar but you soon discover the difference as the clamp binds and slips. The same is true for things like a bench vice. Take a good look at a Pony pipe clamp in 3/4". The Acme threads are square in section, straight on the sides and the center of the screw is flat and smooth. Most other companies cheat on the screws. You can usually spot them by black paint or chrome plating on the screw. This is a dead giveaway that the screws are sub-standard.
The 3/4" Pony pipe clamps are good clamps, very versatile, low cost. I have other brands on the clamp rack and they are a last choice after the orange ones are used up. For F style joiners clamps you can't beat Wetxler's. Compare these to Bessey clamps. The Bessey's have a painted screw, a chrome serrated bar. The serrations can pinch your fingers, sometimes they lock the loose head in position so you have to beat it to get it un-done, the paint on the handles is gone in a short time, the loose clamp pad binds and the plastic caps are for selling to hobbyists. HD Bessey Tradesman 5 1/2" x 12", $24, Wetxler HD 4" x 12", $26.81, made in USA. Use the two side by side and you won't be grabbing the Bessey's until the Wextlers are gone.
For C clamps, the Jorgensen 104, 106 are very good. They have an I beam shape, nice flat fixed head and a working cast swivel head. If the swivel has been crimped around the screw end or has a hole in it for the attachment, stay away. Spending a few extra dollars on clamps will be well worth it over the long run, buy cheap ones and you will fight and curse them as long as you own them. Not something you want to do when it comes glue up time.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Howdy Wanda!
My nickel's worth:
I have a dozen 36 inch pipe Pony 3/4" pipe clamps and a dozen 60 inch Pony 3/4" pipe clamps. They cover most of my large/strong clamping needs. If I need a longer clamp, it's easy to use a threaded pipe coupler and build a longer clamp from the existing ones. The best price I've seen for them is with Woodworker's Supply, where, if you buy 4 or more at a time, they are, IIRC, around US $11 apiece. Pipe seems to be the least expensive at places like Lowe's or HD, rather than at woodworking tool specialty stores.....
There are also some F-type bar clamps for lighter-duty clamping in the clamp inventory, but the most versatile and useful clamps I've found are hand screws. I have a half dozen of most of the sizes Jorgenson makes, and they have been invaluable for clamping/holding just about every-/anything.
I've found the least painful way to build up a clamp collection is a bit at a time, either on sale or when you can get quantity pricing. (It took about 2 years to build up the pipe clamp coll... er, inventory.)
No experience with the Bessey's, so I can't make a recommendation either way.
Good luck; clamps aren't glamourous....but they sure are important!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen!
James
I was in much the same situation you are. A few pipe clamps got me through for a long time. However, they are heavy. I have gradually built my collection over several years. I find I like the bessys well enough, but have fallen in love with parallel jaw cabinetmaker clamps. I have a couple of different brands and have no complaints with any of them -except the cost! About once a month, sometimes more often, I will buy one of these types. Maybe someday I will have enough. :-)
About lengths. You'll find you will naturally want to use the shortest ones you can get away with depending on the project. In my case, I would buy a few in the various lengths required for whatever project I was working on at the time.
Hope this helps.
Here is a review from FWW that you may find helpful.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuidePDF.aspx?id=26134
As Adam has advised, many types for many tasks, so your question is tough to answer. I find that for panel glue up, the parallel jaw type clamps are a pleasure to work with. I have both Jorgensen and Bessey, but prefer the Bessey. Of the many woodworking cliches tossed about, perhaps "you can't have too many clamps" is the most valid, or not. Maybe the best way to build your collection is by the project -- buy as many as required, and eventually you'll have what you need. You should stop at some point though as owning 1000 clamps tends to make you look insane.
If you ask me, and in fact you kind of have, I'll say go with the pipe clamps to start.
When I first started buying clamps the Ponies (I bought a dozen and they are still the standard to judge against) were about the only ones that were commonly available. The imported ones started to show up later and they were junk. I don't know what they are like now but I believe the quality is better, so you may want to consider them.
I now have more kinds including the Bessey's but the pipe clamps are still the most bang for the buck when you're starting to stock your workshop because of the ability to change the length to suit the project at hand. With a 12" or 18" long pipe they are serviceable for small work. With a bit of scrounging or salvaging (and perhaps one of the imported pipe threading sets) it doesn't take a long time to collect a variety of lengths to suit the range of work that your doing. I've got a couple of 8' pipes that didn't cost me anything and I haven't used yet, but they're in the shop if I need them.
Since you're not a lottery winner (I assume) you can get 4 to 6 Pony's and pipe for about the same money as a pair of Bessey's. It always seems to take at least 4 clamps to glue up a project, so the more the merrier. Hopefully in the future when you have more money and the need you can get more specialized clamps.
Another poster recommended the wooden parallel clamps. I'll second that as well because you can do things with them that no other clamp will.
Hi,
"I find I like the bessys well enough, but have fallen in love with parallel jaw cabinetmaker clamps. " What's the difference between the 2. I thought Bessey clamps were the same.
I've been slowly building my tool collection. I usually buy what I need for each project. Usually I end up buying at least one new tool for each new project I tackle.
Think It's about time I bought myself a decent set of Pony clamps. In the meantime I'll keep saving until I can afford a few parallel/ Bessey clamps. I bet those are a lot easier than using pipe clamps. If only they weren't so darn expensive. The 2 quick grip clamps I have work in a pinch to glue up legs and small projects but they're better suited to clamping things down on the workbench or clamping jigs to the rip fence.
Wanda
Bessey is just the name of a company, they make a number of different style clamps. Be very cautious with the Quick Grip style clamps on machines, they vibrate loose.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Wanda,Woodpecker's is having a sale on Bessey K-bodies right NOW.Visit their website (http://www.woodpeck.com) and join the e-club (its free).Sale prices are:24" K-Body $26.99 (regularly $34.99 = 23% discount)31" K-Body $30.99 (regularly $38.99 = 20% discount)50" K-Body $36.99 (regularly $44.99 = 18% discount)http://www.woodpeck.com/besseykbody.html regards,wyo
Edited 10/19/2006 7:55 pm ET by wyo
Wanda,
I started with some Irwin quick grip clamps - before they were Irwins. I use them for quick set ups on jigs and machines. I bought some pipe clamps. They sit in a corner unused. I bought some Gross Stabile "parallel" clamps (which had red in color pads). They were junk. They didn't actually stay parallel. That's why Gross Stabil came out with the newer yellow line.
I bought some Bessey K-bodies. I loved them. I bought some more Bessey K-bodies. I loved them. Bessey had a 25 year sale and I found sets of (2) 24" and (2) 50" for $84. I went clamp crazy. I love them.
More recently, I found a good deal at Amazon. They were selling a Bessey Tradesman 30 piece set for a great price. They also were giving $50 off and another 10% off hand tools (clamps were classified as such). I got a set of 4 8" Kli-clamps for $55 and the 30 piece set for $222. I now have a lot of clamps. But, not enough.
I made a rocking chair recently with 40" bent laminations for the rockers. They took about 30 clamps and the best ones for the job are the little 6" ones (as the bars start banging and cramping each other if they're longer than about 12". One of the people I spoke with told me to hold out for a Harbor Freight sale on their 6" knock off clamps. On sale for $2 each. I'm now waiting to spend another $60 on clamps...
Rod
Hi,
If I lived in the US I'd be ordering from Amazon.com. They have some wonderful deals. Only wish Amazon.ca would sell tools.
I've heard many good things about Bessey clamps. I was out today looking at clamps. Have you ever used Jorgenson cabinet maker Clamps? For some reason they didn't have any Bessey clamps at Home Depot. Not sure if the Jorgenson are as good as the Bessey. I own a few 12" J/clamps which I find pretty good. The quick grip Irwin clamps are ok but they aren't cheap. I have a few of those which I use for clamping things to my tool bench.
Now if only I could luck into a super sale on Bessey Clamps. :)
Wanda
Wanda,Most of the woodworker's supply outfits (like Rockler's) have sales from time to time. Even on sale, the Bessey K-bodies aren't inexpensive.As was mentioned, Jet has a new line of K-body style clamps that look real promising.Also, Woodcraft recently started selling Bessey K-bodies that are Woodcraft green. Note that these clamps are made in India, whereas the original K-bodies are German. Probably not a huge deal.Regarding Amazon, they do have some amazing deals. I recently purchased a 12" Delta jointer for $1843 delivered.
Jorgensens are a quality clamp.
Paint them red and you would be hard pressed to tell them from Besseys.
Only difference I have noticed is that the corrugations on the bar are not as fine, so it seems as though it takes an extra quarter turn to get the clamp head to start snugging down, but this is nit-picking. If I did not have both, I would never have noticed the difference.
I also bought a Jet for the ability to set it in bench dog holes. I think if I were to start over, I would consider going with all Jet. They have a scale on the bar, the ability to be set on the bench, and a quick release lever. They are also slightly less expensive in the Metro Detroit area.
Any of the three would be a good choice.
Wanda,
I got my Bessey K-bodies for that great price through lee valley. I'm sure that you could find a mail order out of canada that would match Amazon.
Rod
Wanda,
I like the Jorgensons better than the Bessy's. They have larger heads and handles, also a bit heftier. The big issue I like is the little foot on the end of the Jorgenson (I think the new bessy's have this too)...it allows you support the clamp by the head and the foot and slide the handle back and forth. Lastly, I hang them by the foot(less work)
A couple of years ago they had an anniversary sale (50% off) and many of us cleaned up....
For some reason HD stopped carrying Bessey clamps about a year ago. That kind of goes along with their general philosophy of carrying good, but not great, tools. Decisions like that are dollar driven in the big box store world. Bessey will be found at most woodworking stores, however. The new Jet clamps look interesting too; especially if you end up having to order from the web. I have many Bessey clamps and they perform well.
We never do have enough clamps, do we? You forgot the small spring clamps. I also have two five gallon buckets full; about a 100. I really like the Irwin but like you "love" the Bessey.Ray
Wanda,
You might checkout your local Lowes this weekend and in the coming weeks. I understand they are phasing out all Irvine, Wilton, and Jet clamps in favor of the new Bessy clamps. Maybe as much as 50% off.
Bill
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