I’m mulling over a jointer purchase and would like some input from you guys. Most of my work is cabinets/bookcases, so I don’t really deal with wide stock too often. But frequently have longish parts (60″-72″ would usually be the longest). Will a 6″ jointer with 46″ table successfully flatten and straighten a board 72″ long? Or do I need a longer table.
A new grizzly 6″ X 46″ jointer is $384.00 delivered. A new 8″ X 75″ is $739.00 (almost double, but I recognize that this is a GREAT price).
$739.00 is fine if 46″ won’t cut it, but I don’t think I need an 8″ jointer as most of the rough stock I buy is 6″ or less anyway.
The other thing is the size of the machine and the power to it is quite a bit different, but both are problems I can deal with if need be.
Thanks for your help.
Bob
Replies
Hi Bob ,
It sounds like mostly you are edge jointing not face jointing . The 46" X 6" machine can be all you really need , longer and wider are not necessarily better and straighter .
Imo your method , the way you use the jointer will be more responsible for the results you get , not the exact specs of the machine .
When the knives are sharp and set perfectly along with the correct feed and pressure method you won't go wrong with the 6" .
happy jointing dusty
Bob,
I agree with what dusty has to say about size. If you don't forsee using wider stock, the 6" may get you by for quite a while. I have had a Jet 6" jointer since 1994 and have not had any issues with flattening (up to 6" wide) or jointing long boards (occasionally 9 foot lengths).
Since I opened my own business , I will be upgrading to a larger capacity jointer soon, as I am now frequently getting 8"-10" wide boards and would like to flatten 1 face before planing.
The nice thing about the 6" jopinter is the ability to upgrade to a spiral or insert cutterhead for about $300 extra.
Lee
May I pose an ignorant's question here?I thought the purpose of a planer was to flatten and smooth. Why would you use a jointer to flatten a board before running it through the planer?
BruceT
To get parallel sides.
Hi Bruce,
To expand on Peter's response-
If you start with a board that is bowed, the planer will make the sides parallel, but the bow will remain. Passing the board over the jointer on 1 face will flatten that face, so that when you run it through the planer, both sides are parallel, and the board is straight. IMO, as important as a planer is, a jointer is a much needed tool for straightening bowed or cupped lumber before planing.
Lee
Bruce & All ,
We are truly lucky that there are so many ways of doing the same thing.
There are pros and cons to face jointing before planing , the most obvious benefit is you can flatten the bow or cup on one side then plane the other into parallel .
However depending on the application , there may be little or no benefit from this procedure example : face frames , they get clamped and glued in most cases to the cabinet front , any bow is irrelevant for this , on the other hand stiles and rails for doors want to be real flat and that is one place you would realize the benefit .
The problem I have with face jointing a board until the bow is gone may leave your board 7/8" on one part and 5/8" somewhere else , as only the high spots get milled on the jointer mostly .
Careful selection of the material and where it gets used is how I get by , I pull the flattest stock for door parts before I rip faces and other parts that can be less perfect .
regards dusty
If you're at all even contemplating a bigger machine, I'd say get it. You'll nearly never hear of someone who regrets having extra capacity. The 8" jointers typically sport a 2hp motor which will put you into 220v operation.
I get by with my 47" x 6" Grizzly...6' is doable, but longer beds would help do a better job. There are a few 6" jointer with longer beds in the 55" to 66" range...Jet, GI, PM, Sunhill, etc.
The Sunhill SM-150 6" w/56" beds is on sale for $458 shipped, and is essentially the same design as the GI and Jet, used to be from the same factory but Jet may have changed.
http://sunhillmachinery.com/SM-150%20Jointer.htm
Edited 8/5/2007 3:45 pm ET by Knotscott
Dear Bob,
Like yourself, most of my work is cabinets & bookcases. I have a 6" Powermatic with 66" tables. I added a Byrd spiral cutterhead (http://www.byrdtool.com/journals.html) as soon as the straight knives were dull and have never been happier. My experience has been that the 8" would of opened up a lot of possibilities for me, in that I tend to mill from rough stock. My first operation is to face the stock. Because of the 6" limitation, I can only start with 6" material so if I am lucky, I'll end up with 5 1/2" or more likely 5" by the time I am done. A lot of my work calls for faceframes in the 2 1/2" - 3" range which means that I have a fair amount of waste no matter what I do, as I can rarely get 2 pieces out of 1. With an 8" machine, I would be finishing stock out at 7" which would be a whole lot more efficient, plus I know I can purchase 8" or smaller stock, as opposed to 6". Overall, I think that an 8" machine would be a much better investment, and if you can swing it, go for an indexed head as well. No knife setting, the blades never seem to wear and when they do, loosen a bolt, rotate the cutter 90 degrees, tighten the bolt and you are done. If you work commercially, or just want to woodwork and not machine work, it is the way to go. This would get my vote:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0593
Now, before you choke on the price, look at what I spent for a 6":
1) PM 54A....................... $750.00
2) Byrd Cutterhead .........$350.00
Total...............................$1100.00 That was five years ago! AND I had to install the head.
Best,
John
Edited 8/5/2007 9:14 pm ET by Jmartinsky
Hi John ,
I've been in business for over 25 years and have never owned a jointer wider then 6" , I have worked a few rough boards over the years but I buy my lumber already surfaced and sometimes straight edged , therefore have no need on a regular basis to face joint anything .
My suppliers run the stock through a machine that planes and then sands the wood to eliminate any tearout or chipage and produces a superior surface then can be achieved with any small shop equipment on a routine basis .
I do use my thickness planer every day . I am not limited by width like you indicate , have you ever considered using stock that comes surfaced ? and do you also have a planer at your disposal to use ?
The statement you made of 5-5 1/2" being the widest lumber you can start out with is imo limiting your scope of possibilities .
regards dusty
Dear Dusty,
Well, first of all, I would LOVE to buy material that is surfaced and straight edged. The Poplar that I get is pretty much useable from stock, but anything else (Maple, Oak, etc.) is either outrageously priced or it is simply surfaced on three sides. The problem had been that I end up with the "banana in - banana out" situation. The suppliers that I have found around here (CT) will not joint the board first and therefore I used to end up fighting the material all of the time. Now, if the project calls for it, I joint the material and mill it myself and I end with straight, stable material.
You also mentioned: " The statement you made of 5-5 1/2" being the widest lumber you can start out with is imo limiting your scope of possibilities"I fully agree.Best,John
Bob,
So you want a jointer.
I'd recommend a Lie Nielsen #8, but if you find that too heavy, then a #7. The mechanical jointers are noisy, hard to adjust, and they make a mess, etc.
Thought I'd post this just to make you think for a second.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
And you have NO limitations as to the width of the board!
No need for hearing/dust protection which allows listening to your favorite music.
Also saves on the electric bill so you can buy more hand tools..................
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I'll have to add my two cents here. My jointer *was* difficult to adjust. However, its the only second hand stationary tool in my shop and adjustment was much easier after a $30 set of knives. Turns out, its the quietest and easiest to use power tool I have. Does not seem to create any dust either -- just shavings I plop into a bag. I bought a couple of hand planes but have not taken the time to learn how to use them properly. Too easy to use the machine. Perhaps because I have not jointed my fingers yet... Andy(How high am I supposed to count when I leave the shop?)
Hi Andy,
I have a 6" Jet second hand jointer that I really enjoy using. The first thing I did was to make some jigs for pushing stock thru so as to avoid jointing the fingers. I'm in the process of making a mitred box, all sides, top and bottom and the jointer surely makes this a lot easier.
I've been trying to come up with a jig/shooting board to fine tune the joints but so far the jointer seems to be doing the trick.
As for how high to count when you leave the shop, I would guess that 10 should be sufficient. Unless of course you make pieces to government spec.; you know, measure with micrometer, cut with an axe and file to fit. It's about the use of an axe where 20 might be a more appropriate number!
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 8/7/2007 6:57 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
You should definately take the time to learn to use your hand planes properly. You won't regret the time spent -- you MAY actually enjoy it!
Just my $.02.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Dear Mel,
I tried one of those, but I could never figure out where to plug it in. It sure makes a nice doorstop, however! The blade digs right into the concrete floor and I have found that if I don't move it too often, it will tend to rust itself to the floor. Perhaps, one day, I will pass it on to my son so that he can throw it out.Best,John:-)
John,
glad to see you have a sense of humor.Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
There's another advantage to having a wider jointer besides being able to flatten wider boards.
If you have a board with tricky grain that is giving you tearout on your jointer, one way of dealing with that is to skew the board so that it passes over the cutterhead at an angle, much like how you would skew a handplane to its direction of travel. You would not be able to do this as easily with a narrower jointer.
Overall, I've found that extra width on a jointer is much more useful than extra length.
Morning Bob...
"There's another advantage to having a wider jointer besides being able to flatten wider boards".
"If you have a board with tricky grain that is giving you tearout on your jointer, one way of dealing with that is to skew the board so that it passes over the cutterhead at an angle, much like how you would skew a handplane to its direction of travel. You would not be able to do this as easily with a narrower jointer"..... wilburpan
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And I'll add to Wilbur's excellent point that I purchased a jointer with few quick turns of a couple of nobs on top and very easily accessible.. the fence will skew to an angle to give fence support while making the skew cut on stock as he mentioned. Most jointers will do that, but on most jointers the manufacturer designed them in a way that it's such a PITA to do it's not really worth the effort.
Regards...
Sarge.. john thompson
You guys really know how to give advice....I appreciate all of the responses. I've decided on the grizzly 8X75 (G0586). Should be all I need (well until next week :)Thanks again.
Bob
Evening Bob...
Caution.. If ya hear unusual noises in the shop after you retire and decide to check them out... Shoot first and ask questions latter with a Grizzly loose in your shop! :>)
Seriously.. I doubt you will regret the decision down the road. If anything else.. you might find yourself mumbling things under your breath like, "I wish I had gone ahead and gotten the 12"... ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
It's just part of what most of us have already gone through.. so welcome abroad the good ship "big iron" and Enjoy my friend!
Regards...
Sarge.. john thompson
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