Replies

1. 
   RMillard | Jun 07, 2010 05:42pm | #1

   jg0258,

   I saw the leg tapers slightly fat and hand plane so transition is uniform. Creeping, is a concern even with extra material, but my biggest issue is keeping the planed face square so the transition point isn't skewed, or in other words not straight across. 

   Rob Millard

   http://www.americanfederalperiod.com

   http://www.rlmillard.typepad.com

2. 
   WillGeorge | Jun 07, 2010 06:21pm | #2

   I just had to reply but I would bet better answers may come to you.

   If you are 'sure' that you can cut a perfect 'break line' using a thick board with your miter guage then I would think that it has something to do with the jig you made or the stock being cut is not square.

   ... Is your stock surfaced square on four sides?

   ... Is the base of your jig 'flat' and not tapered somehow?

   I am not knocking your jig or your skills at making it. I only mention the jig base because you gave no information on what was used to make it. I have purchased Baltic birch (not from China) that was no better than a 'good' grade of common bigbox plywood. It just had more (bad) layers...

   When making jigs.. I like making them.. I always drum sand ALL of my plywood. Even the quality, multi layered, Baltic birch type. Not that a drum sander is 'perfect', but does more than a reasonable job at flattening what will fit into it. I sand both sides.

   I would (really, if I had the problem) go back and make SURE that you are getting a true (90 degree) break line using some thick scrap and your miter guage before I continued further.

   I have had issues using a thin kerf blade ripping tapers/miters. A 'standard' kerf blade cut well where the thin kerf blade failed my expectations.

   But then again, just a old woodworkers thoughts.

   EDIT:

   I just saw Rob Millard's post...

   He has a great point. I take his words as in my crude way of thinking,,, Make it look good with a hand plane at the transition.

   I recently made eight tapered bed legs that were 96 inches long that had a 'break line' . I would never try to hand plane the whole length to 'clean it up'..  Mine, with a flat based taper jig gave a slightly off 90 degree break line. I finished them off with a low angle hand plane and a card scraper. I would love to see how a true Master would do it. I'd bet he/she would never try to hand plane the entire length in one pass. I could be wrong. I have been many times before.

   I will be watching this post for 'good' information...

    

1. 
   jg0258 | Jun 07, 2010 06:48pm | #3

   Hey Rob, have pity on a poor guy huh? You are a master I have only been doing this for 3 years... :-) How the heck do you make sure the plane blade starts exactly at the break line without creeping, is it just practice? Or do you have a trick? 

   Will, thanks for your answer, the jig is straight since the edge of the jig rides along the blade and I do get a clean square break line, but as always a blade does not leave a clean surface, not clean enough to finish anyhow. I guess one solution would be to buy one of those sanding disks you tape to the blade so it cuts and sands at the same time, but I would like to learn how to do this by hand. 

   PS, I am using a TK blade, maybe I should change to a full kerf 80 tooth blade, what do you all think?

1. 
   RMillard | Jun 08, 2010 06:57am | #4

   I like to use a long bed plane because the sole is longer in front of the blade, which makes it easier to get the plane "settled down", before it starts cutting. I use to set up a raking light, coming from the front, that highlighted the transition. Now I just draw a line at the transition and work back until the plane just touches the line. I use a Wilton vise with a tilting jaw that can firmly hold the tapered leg.

   I'm afraid I can't help you with the selection of table saw blades, for two reasons, I rarely use the table saw and when I do it is fitted with an inexpensive blade from Irwin.

    I saw the tapers on the band saw. I do this, because I assemble the table dry, on a flat surface and use a framing square to find the true center line of the tapers . The tapers are laid out manually from this true center line. which means each taper is different and makes a jig more trouble than it's worth. This is probably not important on large tables, but on small tables, even a slight deviation in the apron shoulders will throw the leg out of true and with the legs so close together this can be noticeable and distracting. 

   Rob Millard

   http://www.americanfederalperiod.com

1. 
   jg0258 | Jun 08, 2010 08:15am | #5

   Thanks for the tips.

   I tried tapering on the band saw, that was a successful failure... :-) I guess the degree of tapering has a lot to do with a clean break line as well. 

   At the risk of looking stupid, what is a taper center line? I though you just figured where you wanted the taper to start, where to finish and let it rip. 

1. 
   RMillard | Jun 08, 2010 08:48am | #7

   I should have described it better

   jg0258,

   With the table assembled dry on a flat surface, a framing square with its short leg on the flat surface, is used to drop a line from the centerline of the leg near intersection of the apron and leg. If the shoulders of the apron aren't perfectly square, the legs will run out at various angles. Even a very slight deviation from square on the shoulder joints will result in a fairly significant deviation when run out in the 24+ inches of the height of the legs. The line drawn with the square becomes the centerline of the taper, and the taper is laid out from it. Sometimes the deviation is insignificant, but other times it is surprisingly large. On a small table when you sight across the legs, you can see if they are not true, but laying out the tapers this way eliminates that mis-alingment.  All of this individual layout is probably a minor point, but I see it as one of those little steps that leads to a better piece of furniture, and it adds almost no time to the construction. 

   Because of the runout, each cut is different, making a jig time consuming to set up, which is why I use the band saw. With the bandsaw there is a usually a bit of inaccuracy where the blade leaves the wood. This can be lessened, if not eliminated, by starting the cut at the foot and when you reach the end of the cut, applying slight sideways pressure on the leg, pushing towards the off cut piece. This side pressure keeps the blade from jumping off line when it no longer has support from the off cut piece.

   Rob Millard

   http://www.americanfederalperiod.com

   http://www.rlmillard.typepad.com

2. 
   jg0258 | Jun 08, 2010 10:32am | #8

   Once again thank you....

   See, these are the small details that make things better. Dumb ass that I am I made the tapers first and then the mortices, and of course a few times the legs looked like those from a newly born giraffe. 

   Thanks for the tip in the bandsaw as well, my problem was that at the end of the cut it would leave a small lip that was hell to clean up, I will try your way since it is always good to know more than one way to do things. 

   Frosty, I think there is a video on this site with the method you mentioned. Seemed to cumbersome to me but it does seem to work. 

3. 
   swenson | Jun 08, 2010 08:29am | #6

   I make a light pass on a jointer, untapered end against the fence, tapered end against the infeed table.

4. 
   Jfrostjr | Jun 08, 2010 11:35am | #9

   A different tapering procedure

   When I first read about this procedure, I thought "they must be nuts!" - but it works. How much clean-up will be needed depends on the quality of cut from your jointer. My results are very good.

    Taper on the Jointer:

   1. Mark a line in the leg that is at the EXACT half-point of the length of the  taper. Square the line around the leg.

   2. Set the depth of cut on the jointer to 1/2 the total amount of the taper - it is aggressive but it has always been OK for me.

   3. Locate the exact point at which the jointer knives begin to cut: Unplug the machine, set a square on the infeed table and rotate the cutter-head until the square stops moving. Mark that point on the fence and carry it up a couple of inches.

   4. Start the first cut at the BOTTOM of the leg. Proceed with the cut until the line on the leg meets the line on the fence. Remove the piece and rotate the leg to do the second face.

   5. Flip the leg end-for-end, then press down on the foot end of the leg as you feed against the cutter. The top of the leg will, and should, be raised off the table. Make one continuous pass along the length of the leg and the result is a perfect taper - done very rapidly and repeatably. The same process is used on the second face. The result is one, clean taper line from start-of-cut to the foot.

   I have never had a taper where the "one half of total taper" from step #2 exceeds the maximum depth of cut on my jointer - but I've come close. On that occasion, I came to the conclusion that a repeat of the same procedures to achieve my total taper should work - but I have never tried it.

   Frosty

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Jun 14, 2010 10:28pm | #11

   To Frosty and Rob Millard

   Thank you for sharing your techniques.  It's to learn these different ways of working that I visit Knots.  I've never heard of Frosty's technique nor thought about dry-assembling before laying out the final leg shape as Rob does.

5. 
   BarryO | Jun 14, 2010 01:09pm | #10

   Once you try tapering on the jointer, you'll never go back!

1. 
   swenson | Jun 15, 2010 03:04am | #12

   tapering on the jointer, you'll never go back!

   You got that right BarryO.  ShopNotes had a good piece on setting up to do it this way and I made two sets of very large table legs using their method and was very pleased with the result.  It involves lowering the leg into the spinning cutters and moving it forward, but the trick is using their set up and marks and doing multiple passes.  Sounds a bit dangerous, but done their way it isn't.

   I used to use a homemade jig that used a hole in the center of the leg foot as a rotation point so that any number of sides could be tapered without the problem of the legs change in shape effecting the cuts.  It rode in the mitre slot on my table saw and worked like a charm as long as the blank wasn't too thick for the height of the blade.