Replies

1. 
   kennedy136 | Mar 10, 2003 05:59am | #1

   ENFRIM,

          I have one and overall am happy with it but,  There's always a "but" ,  as it came the adjusting mechanism wouldn't retract the blade all the way when the frog was slid forward enough to make a tight mouth.  I wound up adapting a part from another plane and now it works fairly well albeit with more slop in the mechanism than I would like.  Now to the plus side of the equation.  First it looks and feels good and it will stay sharp longer than anything else I have.  The two piece chipbreaker is nice as well.  I would advise you to take a look at the new Veritas no. 4 before you buy the Cliffton as if I had it to do over that's what I would get.  It is also less money although not a lot less.  I have two of Veritas' blockplanes which I absolutely love. Good luck.

                    Mark

                                                            

2. 
   dirtstirrer | Mar 10, 2003 08:23am | #2

   ENFIRM,

   Might I suggest a third option? Find an old Stanley to use. Great old tools, ususally. Bedrocks are even better. If not, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the LN products, and I bet you won't ever loose money on either of these two options. Just my opinion, for whatever its worth. Oh yea, you can probably by 4 Stanley #4's for the price of either the LN or the Clifton.

   Steve

3. 
   Lar55 | Mar 10, 2003 04:02pm | #3

   I have the Clifton & it's great, no problems.  Clifton and L-N are the best made on the market (IMHO), you can't go wrong with either. L-N may have a slightly better finish.

4. 
   alanplanesaw | Mar 10, 2003 07:42pm | #4

   If you do a lot of planing, I would suggest you go with the LN.  I have a lot of Stanley planes.  I have enjoyed re-conditioning them, tuning them, sharpening and honing, etc.  I have learned a lot and enjoy working with them.

   However, what I have also learned, is that when I am ready to do some serious work, I would rather spend my money right the first time and get a plane that is basically ready to go right out of the box.

   Alan   -- Planesaw

5. 
   TomFerreira | Mar 11, 2003 02:05am | #5

   Don't know much about the Clifton first hand but I got a Veritas 4 1/2 for x-mas and really like it. It is heavy, well balanced and well made. The price is also in the same range as the Clifton.

   TDF

1. 
   BrianMcG | Mar 13, 2003 07:43am | #13

   Hi Tom, I got the Veritas also and agree, It's great.

6. 
   jimhamster | Mar 11, 2003 06:38am | #6

   I have a Clifton #5 and it's a beauty.  Well made, holds a sharp  edge all day.  I'm convinced.  I also have a couple of LN's.  Their large shoulder plane is amazing.  It's sooo sharp I manage to cut myself with it every time I use it!  No matter what you do, buy a good plane, it's money well spent.

1. 
   qldwoodie | Mar 12, 2003 07:13am | #7

   Well, I suppose there has to be one dissenting voice to balance the discussion.  I notice some of the regulars have remained silent, so here's my cent's worth.

   Last year I went against a lifetime of habit (of being a cheapskate) and bought a Clifton #4.  I'd been after an old Bedrock for years, but they aren't so easy to come by in this part of the world, and on the strength of the 'rave reviews' they've had in several w'working mags, I thought I'd go that route.

   The first disappointment was the tote - what a crude and sloppy thing to do with a piece of half decent wood. It looked like something an apprentice might cobble up on the first day on the job.  It took a half-hour or so with with rasp, scraper and paper to make it look and feel a bit more like what I'd expect from a 'quality' tool.  The other disappointment is the cap-iron.  If you must waste time making silly 'stay-set' cap-irons, at least make them accurately.  Mine is uneven, so that when I clip the end into place, I have to have the body skewed to get an even exposure behind the cutting edge.  I question the value of them in any case, and venture that the reason they died out 60 years ago is that they offer no real advantage ove a regular cap iron.  Any time they might save in resetting the iron (and that can only be a few milliseconds, since the amount of slop ensures the exposure will NOT be exactly the same as before, and you still have to check lateral set) is more than lost by the remaining bit getting in the way when you are cleaning up the back. Not to mention that it probably wont fit in most of those funny honing-guide thingeys without disassembling.

   Once fettled a bit, it worked quite well, but no better than my well-tuned regular Stanley #5, which is standard apart from its HSS iron.  I guess on balance, it took much less tuning than a current equivalent from the hardware store, and if you've never handled a well-tuned plane, this would have been a lot closer to doing a good job right out of the box than some of the current offerings ever will. 

    I'd offer the same advice as a few of the other older w'workers have done in similar threads - if you can afford one of the fancy collector planes, you'll be getting something that will at least work out of the box.  But tuning up a decent flea-market job could be worth more than the cash difference in the value of what you'll learn about planes and planing.  Whether wood is your hobby or profession, that will return a lot of dividends over a lifetime!

   IW

1. 
   Ole | Mar 12, 2003 10:30am | #8

   Hi !

   Talking about Clifton planes.... anybody got experience with Clifton shoulder/rabbet plane No. 420 or other models ?? considering adding it to my shop.

   ORH.... I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

1. 
   DP | Mar 12, 2003 05:00pm | #9

   One of the magazines (Popular Woodworking, I think) recently did a review of the Clifton and the L-N smoothing planes.  You might want to take a look at that if you decide to go the new route. 

   I have both the Clifton 420 and the 410 along with the large L-N.  The Cliftons are both very well made and work well although I find that most of the time I find myself reaching for the L-N even on small jobs.  Some folks complain that the L-N is too large to fit comfortable in the hand but I've never found that to be a problem.  None of them required much tuning when I got them although the Cliftons' blades did need more work than did the L-N.

2. 
   jimhamster | Mar 13, 2003 10:12am | #14

   While I like my Clifton #5, on the shoulder plane definately get the big guy from LN, it's amazing!!

7. 
   Adze | Mar 13, 2003 04:27am | #10

   I have both a Clifton 4 and LN 4.5.  There is a noticeable difference in the finish, and the Clifton is inferior.  For starters, there seems to be a dimension problem on the Clifton.  Unless the chip breaker is set very close to the edge of the blade, the blade cannot be completely retracted when the mouth is closed tight.  

   Secondly, on my specific plane, the blade is not square to the mouth, even though both the edge of the plane and the mouth appear to be square.  This problem can be corrected by honing the blade at a slight angle or placing shims under the frog.

   Thirdly, the two pins that hold down the frog were different sizes (Clifton did send me replacements) such that the frog could only be secured by one of these pins.

   Finally, the mechanism for adjusting the blade is significantly stiffer than the LN's.

   That said, once these issues are addressed, with equally sharp blades and equivalent settings, there is NO DIFFERENCE in the relative performance of these planes.  They both do a super job.  It really a question, yet again, of how much time you have iron out any bugs.

1. 
   kennedy136 | Mar 13, 2003 05:19am | #11

   Adze,

         I find it interesting that you experienced the same problem with your plane (not being able to fully retract the blade) that I mentioned with mine.  I think it was the second or third post in this thread.  This indicates that it is not an isolated problem.  Once tuned mine works well but for what they want for it if I had it to do over I would buy the L-N and get the 50 degree frog with it. I am amazed however in the quality of the blade as it stays sharp for a long time, much better than anything else I have had except for my veritas block planes.  I'm glad you put your two cents in.

                                                 Mark

8. 
   enfrim | Mar 13, 2003 06:18am | #12

   Thanks to Everyone for the advise!  As it turns out the mail order house ("the best things") was out of stock on the Clifton No.4.  I elected to go with the LN No.4 in cast iron.  The prices are alomst identical and the LN was in stock.  Can't wait for UPS to show up.   Thanks again for taking time to respond to my post.

   Enfrim