Hello, To All!
Just purchased a large – and heavy – 8/4 board of Cocobolo. It will be used solely for box tops. The box tops are of the frame and panel style so no gluing will be involved.
My question is this. I would like to know how those of you who have used cocobolo, finish it? The grain is incredible so planing it is out of the question. I suspect that one of you will tell me that a finely honed scraper is the only way to go. And, I do not believe that sanding will do any good at all due to the oiliness of this incredible wood species.
Because of the way I plan to use it, it must have a nice smooth finish because it will be closely scrutinized.
Thanks for you help in advance.
Phillip
Replies
I have used a fair amount of cocobolo in small projects, like boxes, and as trim on other types of work. I have used sandpaper in the higher (finer) grits to develop a luster, then applied wax as the final finish. The abrasives don't seem to load up for me, but I'm not taking off a lot of material, either. Since it's so hard, I'd suggest using really good saw blades so that the surface is relatively smooth even before finishing. I use Forrest blades.
Jimma -Thanks for your input. Just as a test, I used 600X sandpaper last envening and it worked fine, but my personal preference in my work is that it has to be perfect and then I'm still not happy with it. This is my personal demon. Anyway, after using the 600X for a short time, I could see that it still had a lot of nicks in the surface so more had to be done to it. What really bothered me was that the swarf clung to the minute nooks and crannies like glue. My usual habit after sanding anything (important) is to blow all of this out with compressed air and that has always worked fine for me. This wood may not be so obliging - in this regard - and this is due, no doubt, to its inherent oiliness.I hear you when you mention sharp blades. I use Forrest's and I had planned to used a fresh Woodslicer when I re-saw the first panel today.You mentioned using it for trim. Did you use adhesive for this? I've heard that nothing will bond to this wood, but every situation is different.Thanks for the information,
Phillip
I have successfully used TiteBond III with Cocobolo.
I posted all the details in The Gallery: http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-knots&msg=18950.1&search=y
The finish was Shellac. Although, I don't know that I'd use it again.
Which region is your Cocobolo from? My favorite is from Nicuragua. In fact that's the only Cocobolo I buy. Heh... I'm very visually oriented and that drives my purchases. Of course I just do it as a hobby. So, I can afford to cater to my own whims that way.
On sanding Cocobolo... I use Mirka's Abranet mesh sanding discs. Instead of being paper-backed they are based on a mesh which works fabulously with any oily wood because the dust generated by sanding isn't stuck between the sandpaper and the wood. Of course they are hook & loop discs. I'm not aware of anything similiar which would be comparable to sheet sandpaper. Actually, these mesh sanding discs work far superior to standard paper-backed discs on any species of wood for the same reason that they work so well on Cocobolo. They also don't wear out nearly as fast. So, you get more usage out of a single disc. It's a great product! About the only thing that paper-backed sanding discs significantly outperform these Abranet discs on is sanding metal.
Kevin,Thanks for the info.Just like you, the grain of this very $$ board got my attention. I purchased it at Owl Lumber in Lombard, IL. I asked them where it came from and all they knew was South America. The have some very nice lumber. At any rate, I want my box tops to stand out so highly-figured grain is what I look for. I'm getting a bit tired of continually looking for suitable stock for my panels. My next box will probably have have inlaid leaves or something. Variety is good for the soul.I learned two things from your message: I had never heard of Abranet and I positively never, ever heard of Rain Sticks. These are very fascinating and your work is very nice. I hope your hard work was appreciated. I can only imagine how long it took you to make one.I went to the web searching for Abranet and did locate several vendors. I would definitely like to try it. I use Mirka sandpaper, the 5-inch for my disc sander so I would expect them to make a good product.Also, thanks for the name of the glue you used. After working with cocobolo today, I can see that it is not as oily as I thought at first. I had a time re-sawing it, but discovered that it joints, planes, and routs without much trouble. Taking small cuts also helps, but we should always do this anyway.Thanks for all your help.Regards,
Phillip
After working with cocobolo today, I can see that it is not as oily as I thought at first.
That's been my experience as well. I had envisioned something that would feel almost waxy. But, it doesn't at all.
I was told two different things when I asked around about gluing Cocobolo. 1. to just glue up freshly cut wood and it'd bond just fine. And 2. to wipe the surfaces to be glued with Acetone first so as to remove the oil.
My experience was the same as someone else who chimed in here... wiping with Acetone seemed to draw more of the natural oils to the surface. Plus it visibly discolored the surface since my Acetone-soaked rag came away with quite a bit of color. Clearly at least some (I suspect it's most) of the beautiful color of Cocobolo is part and parcel of the natural oils in it. So, I went with the first suggestion and made sure I either had freshly cut joints or that I sanded the joint surface shortly before gluing. All of my tests as well as the Rain Stick have held up flawlessly. And if you noted the date stamp on my post in the Gallery... it has been almost exactly one year since I finished the Rain Stick.
For wet-sanding projects you might want to check out Mirka's Abralon. Which is identical to the Abranet except that there is a foam layer between the abrasive surface and the hook & loop backer. The point of the foam is to hold water or whatever the medium is when wet-sanding. I've never used it. But, I've communicated with wood finishing folks who have and they refuse to use anything other than Abranet. That's how much they love it.
I know I must sound like I own stock in Mirka. But, the truth is that Abranet is their only product that I use. And I use it because it works very well and because there is nothing like it on the market. For regular sandpaper I use 3M sheet paper and Crystal Bay sanding discs.
I accidentally left a cocobolo handle soaking in acetone overnight once. The next morning it was like almost pure white!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Kevin,I had a heck of a time finding a place to buy Abranet. A place I felt safe leaving my credit card anyway. Finally settled on Homestead. This is Jeff Jewitt's place. They had an assortment pack with two foam thingie's. What I got was five each of 120, 180, 240, 320, 400, and 600 grit: $36. Thought it was a bit high since I found a place that sold the just the Abranet disc's for $21. Where do you get yours at?Everything I read was totally positive about this abrasive. Should work out fine. Thanks for telling me about it.Regards,
Phillip
Phillip,
I get mine from http://www.industrialfinishes.com/ , which is where I get all of my automotive paint and supplies. They don't sell online, though.
As popular as Abranet seems to be with woodworkers, and that's what I use it for too, I actually got pitched by a salesman buddy of mine who services the automotive refinish market. Apparently these things are all the rage at body shops too. Abranet doesn't stand up to metal very good at all, as I mentioned before. But, for sandable body primer... man, it sands like a dream with Abranet! Lasts roughly 3 times as long as paper-backed sandpaper performing the same exact task at the same exact grit. I was skeptical of that claim. But, my boss and I tested it side-by-side before we agreed to buy some Abranet and the claim is legit. It really does last longer. Which is to say that it cuts effectively longer than paper-backed does.
The foam thingies sound like backers. Their purpose is to go between the mesh disc and your sanding pad so that you can work curved surfaces with your sander. I use mine more as a hand-sanding pad, though.
If you already have a source for Mirka sandpaper, you might try asking them if they'll order some Abranet for you. It's worth a try.
Kevin,I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this, but it's been at least ten years ago that I bought full boxes (50) of 5-inch disc's for my Bosch orbital sander (you can see that I do not sand much). These three boxes were in 220x, 320x, and 600 grit. At any rate, yesterday I happened to take a look at those boxes and they were Mirka's. So, I've been using them for years not even realizing it. And, I will say this, these disc's always do the job! I cannot say the same for the others which I have had to purchase in coarser grits.The three boxes of Mirka's were purchased from Woodworker's Supply which is a franchise. Think I bought them in Albuquerque, NM. So, I'll take your advice and log on to their website. I never liked buying from them because I always had to pay tax because I was living in NM at the time. Yesterday I got an email from a gentleman who suggested I use drywall sanding sheets for dimensioning the Cocobolo. If you've ever used the stuff you know that the backing is a woven material which is extremely open - and very aggressive. I was recently looking for a fresh supply but could only find it in 4 x 9-inch strips which fits the holder used by drywall tech's. I'd love to be able to find this material in 12 x 12-inch sheets. That would be ideal. I researched Norton yesterday, but could not find it. Perhaps I should talk the someone at Lowe's and see if they can order it.Take care and thanks again.Phillip
Try Klingspor. Their website has a phone number you can use for help.
I don't know the origin of the cocobolo I've used, but it is very dark, almost black, and with little grain. Of course, I did select it that way. As to the glue, when I first got a batch of cocobolo I made several test joints using Titebond II and wiped some with naptha, some with lacquer thinner, and some with no solvent at all. The surprising thing was that the untreated joint -- which was a 90-degree butt joint -- held and still is holding after five years and many attempts to break the joint. Of course, it was freshly cut wood. I've made quite a number of boxes out of cocobolo with pieces for the sides that are approximately 3 inches wide joined at the corners with butt joints. They were finished with 600-grit abrasive ( probably not paper) and waxed and they both look great and feel like a baby's you-know-what. I've never had any residue problems. Two years ago I even made about a dozen bookmarks from it that were only a few thousandths thick (I resawed with a bandsaw) and with scrollsaw designs in them. They also were hand sanded and waxed. I love the stuff, but I'm conservative about what I use it for. Here is a photo of an ergonomic hammer I made for a dentist ... out of scrap (not the dark stuff).
Edited 8/19/2005 4:26 pm ET by Jimma
And what is that dentist going to do with that hammer? <G>Philip Marcou
Beats me...I asked him he same thing. Said he needs it when something, like a crown, has to be removed. The handle is threaded so the stainless part can be removed and put in an autoclave. Previously the staff just put the whole thing in. This wasn't too great for the wood handle of course.
I would imagine that wet sanding with turp or paint thinner, one could get to 2000 grit and have a real nice polish on cocobolo. I'll have to give it a try.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
John,Thanks for your advice on sanding. What you say makes good sense.Several years ago I made a coffee table from a slab of walnut crotch. After I finished it I accidently made a few scratches in it an I was livid. So, I emailed Taunton for help and did get some good advice but what I heard mostly is that my sanding methods were all wrong. Since I do what I do from experience, and can see the results of my efforts, I will continue to do what I do even if I do go 'against the grain'. Briefly, I'll explain my method: I use pumice and rotten stone but without oil or water. I use it after I buff the wood down with 100x through 600X (or so). After this, I begin with 2F pumice, followed by 4F, and then the rotten stone. These are applied with hard felt blocks. I have no doubt that anyone who reads this will disagree, but I'll stick to this because it know it works. In fact, the wood surface looks like it has been oiled and you can see your own reflection in it. When I change grits or pumice, I always blow out the swarf with my air compressor as best I can. This is time consuming, but again, I know what the results will be. And, It goes without saying, smaller projects are ideal for this labor-intensive method. Anyway, I forgot about the minute scratches because I was apparently the only one who could see them.So, this is how I will buff out this box top insert of cocobolo. I will post some photos when I'm finished with it. I attached some images of the walnut coffee table.Regards.
Phillip
The table looks great. I'm working on a pair of walnut sofa back tables today. So if I understand you, that walnut table has no finish except elbow grease? John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
John, My apologies to you for leaving out the finish I used.I used Tried & True Linseed Oil which was applied warm and encouraged to penetrate with the use of a hair blower. I suppose I could have tweaked it a bit by thinning it with turpentine, but I did not do that.If you have time, I'd like to see some photos of your tables when done.Regards,
Phillip
"it has to be perfect and then I'm still not happy with it"
Philip,
I've had good luck using epoxy for glue-ups, wiping the glue joint repeatedly with an acetone-saturated rag to draw out and remove the oil immediately before assembly.
Watch out for cumulative sensitivities to cocobolo - it'll sneak up on you if you're one of the unlucky folks it decides to dislike.
I've had good luck wet-sanding with silicon-carbide abrasive (usually when applying Liberon finishing oil); and yes, a card scraper can be very effective for removing small defects and flattening!
Might sound a little weird to some, but the more I listen to what the wood tells me to do with it, the more praise my projects receive. Sometimes a project can look like a million bucks precisely because it is conspicuously imperfect - when the imperfections are the result of thoughtful craftsmanship and not blundering or inattention to all of the details:Sometimes a project begs for subtle, visible, tactile, handplane tracks instead of a machine-flat surface; Sometimes sapwood begs to be used;Sometimes an encased knot demands to come to the party; Sometimes a wane-edged board is a perfect fit; Sometimes wax is the only finish a piece needs.
Maybe it's just another way to seek perfection.
Good luck with your project - post pictures when you're done ; - )
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Jazzdogg,Many thanks for all of your comments and advice.I know I'm a fool when I strive for perfection only to learn again - and again - that perfection only exists in one's mind and never in reality. I don't believe that I will ever learn. And so, on I go ...Your comments about imperfection reminded me of one of the things that I learned while chilling out on the Zuni Indian Reservation after my return from Nam. That is this. During my stay, I befriended and watched many Zuni master craftsmen create beautiful Squash Blossom's and other equally exquisite pieces of jewelry. As time passed I returned to civilization, as it were, and soon learned that the demand of Native American jewelry was precisely because it was not perfect. 'White eyes' (gringo's or non-Indian's as they were referred to by Native American's) did make jewelry which was perfect or nearly so. This custom jewelry just sat in displays gathering dust. Lesson learned.Your words about grain were bang-on and inspirational. I have read every word that James Krenov has written. Bottom line (for me) is that the iridescent shimmer which reflects the path of the plane is visual proof that the craftsman was human and not mechanical. In my opinion, it is these objects which become heirlooms as opposed to those which some quickly replace in a vain attempt to stay in 'vogue'. How wasteful! Thanks for droppin' in.
Phillip
Hi Phillip,
Thanks for your kind words. I have observed the same aesthetic - embracing the humanity endemic to imperfections - in many cultures; notably Japanese craftsmanship. Unfortunately, not the same values promulgated by many who embrace the acquisitive aspects of our contemporary society.
Sawdust in your shoes,-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Phillip -
I would say the wood is waxy, not oily. Sure gums up drill bits!
Also, you may not believe this, but I've had it happen a few times. Drilling Cocobolo real fast with a dull bit on a drill press and the build up in the hole on the bit and the heat can actually cause a mini explosion caused by the deseling effect of the wax, heat, and build up of pressure. Sorta like a very small lady finger firecracker. Just a small pop and a whiff of smoke as the bit is drawn out. Kinda suprised me the first time.
Also, the wax make it almost impossible to use an overhead drum sander. The belt will gum up quickly when taking to deep a cut.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Try wet sanding it with teak oil as a lube to keep your paper from gumming up so fast.
Mike,Thanks for the warning about drilling. That's amazing. If that had happened to me - without having any prior warning - I would have thought that the wood was warning me about drilling holes in it. And some say wood is not alive after being harvested- Ha!I'm not sure where Katy, TX is (we moved to Chicago from NM about 2 years ago) but have you ever worked with mesquite? I bought a wood working book which depicted a gentleman who carved incredible sculptures from mesquite. He also associated a psalm with each. Every piece looked like it was made of marble. They were beautiful.Funny you mention a drum sander because that was something I was going to look into due to the tear out of Cocobolo from the use of the planer. My preference is to hand plane rather that sand a piece to death but on some stock you have no choice but to sand.Thanks for all your advice.Phillip
Katy is about 35 miles straight west of downtown Houston, on I-10. Haven't shup up the shop and turned on the AC yet this morning and I'm setting here pouring sweat! Even the dog is wanting to go in the house!
Oh yeah, nope, haven't worked with mesquite, yet.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Edited 8/22/2005 12:43 pm ET by PlaneWood
I have used my Performax sander for final dimensioning of cocobolo with Klingspor abrasive belts and only somewhat agree with the above comment on loading. If you try to take off as much as you might on other woods, it will load up as it will with too fine a grit. So "final" is kind of nominal, meaning you have to allow a few thousandths over the final dimension in order to sand (or scrape) off the abrasive marks left by the drum sander. In my experience, an abrasive belt with a grit finer than 120 is unusable on cocobolo as it will load and burn, so I don't go above 80 for dimensioning applications. That said, it might be argued that the drum sander isn't appropriate, but it will make short work of reducing an irrregular work piece and it will avoid tearout. Do you know someone who might run a test piece for you?
Jimma,This whole Cocobolo experience has me at a x-roads, so to speak. It has always been my belief that shaving or slicing - as in using a plane - is always better than sanding as it leaves the wood burnished. That's in an ideal or perfect world, I know.I not so long ago made a coffee table from an 80 pound slab of walnut crotch. I posted some photos of that table on this thread a few days back (see 25164.16). Because I do not have a hugh belt or drum sander, I had to flatten it by hand. I used a scraping plane to take off the peaks. I used my own handmade wooden planes to do the rest. There were times when I had to skew the plane to trick the grain. I learned as I went. I was one with the wood. We were adversaries, but we had somewhat mutual goals: I wanted the best result in the shortest amount of time and the walnut slab wanted me to make it a useful and functional piece of furniture. I think we both won.Now, if that walnut slab had been Cocobolo, my experience's would have been much different. I think. If I can avoid sanding I will. I much prefer to use my planes - when it is appropriate. Cocobolo, in my opinion, is a gift to anyone who is fortunate to have a piece of it. Having said that, the craftsman must learn to work it properly and effectively. My brief experience with this wonderful wood species has imparted enough knowledge to me to realize that what you say makes very good sense. Sanding may be the only way to dimension this wood. Just as with the walnut slab, there are places where the plane will glide as if on rollers, in others sections where the grain swirls every which way, it is best to scrape or sand or do both. I am no different than any other craftsman, I have to listen to what the wood is telling me. No one wants to see tear out. And, in particular, not in a beautiful piece of Cocobolo.And to answer your question, no, I do not know of anyone who could run a test for me. At any rate, I jointed, planed and sanded this piece of Cocobolo as best I could . The first box is done. The next will be in walnut. I attached two quick images.I appreciate all of your comments.
Phillip
I guess you gotta do what ya gotta do.
Not to rain on anyones parade, but several years ago I had a really bad reaction to Cocobolo dust. My arms and face broke out and it affected my breathing for several hours. Just be carefull and use the usual protection.
Dennis
Dennis -Yes, some sort of reaction that has been on my mind. My 'financial advisor' warned me this morning before she left that I should use my respirator. I had planned on doing just that anyway.My usual attire is shorts and t-shirt. I do plan on using my leather apron today so if I break out it will be my fault. I will report back on all of this.Thanks for your input. What type of project were you using cocobolo on? Just curious.Regards,
Phillip
I was building a series of boxes, I love the color and grain pattern of Cocobolo. I've turned it for small knobs and handles. I used Watco's teak oil to finish it with good success. But of all the exotics I've used it scared me the most!!
Dennis,Is there something special about Watco's Teak oil as opposed to their Danish oil? Last evening I tried a Q-tip of Watco's Natural Danish on a corner of the cocobolo and it appeared 'normal' to me. In other words, because of the amazing grain of this wood, it would take something very special to improve on it. So, that is why I'm asking you about the Teak Oil.I normally make my boxes from elm or walnut and the panel insert can be just about anything so long as it does not degrade the box. My favorite finish is Tried & True Linseed Oil. I sometimes use a hair dryer to keep it hot as it goes on. Anyway, I really like to know why you choose Teak Oil. I have never used it before.I just finished re-sawing a 3/8-inch slab from this board and I think I set a record. I used a fresh Woodslicer on my band saw and had to go very slowly as the blade - for some reason - had a tendency to favor the center of the tree, if you will. Perhaps I never noticed this phenomenon before, but it was sure evident on this cut. Live and learn.Thanks,
Phillip
Phillip,
I was sanding some cocobolo, a few years ago, and when I got up, both of my legs were covered in hives. (I was wearing shorts at the time). Since then I've been careful. I wear a dust mask when sanding or resawing it. Otherwise I've not had a problem. I've heard alot of people have. It (the cocobolo tree) is a nut producing tree, and therefore, lots of people have allergic reactions to nuts. At least that's what I've heard. I've used gorilla glue and had not problem with the glue ups. I've done the wiping with acetone prior to glue ups but have had no problems if I forget that step. I make small boxes and haven't used it large scale.
Robin
Ditto on poly glue, I use Excel or PL because it's 1/2 the price of Gorilla. There's another school of thought that wiping w/ acetone just tends to pull fresh oil to the surface. I've done it both ways with no failures either way.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
The Petronius who authored the Satyricon didn't live in B.C. time. He died around 66 A.D. without leaving any advice on working cocobolo, to our immense chagrin.
Reginald
Hi, Robin!Thanks for your words of advice.I did use my respirator but stuck to my usual attire: shorts and T-shirt. So, far, so good. I thought that I did feel a slight burning in my throat, but that could be just my imagination. I use my vac faithfully, and I have an air filtration system that runs continuously so no doubt this all helps.I very seldom break out with anything, but you can never tell. I did read up on this particular wood species, so I was somewhat prepared.I use Gorilla glue on occasion. I just finished my bottle last week. Seems that all I heard and read about the difficulties of gluing this wood were somewhat off the mark. Perhaps, it's just good preparation that makes for good results. What a concept! What kind of boxes do you make? Mine are for a chocolatier so they have to be a certain size, but I'm yearning to make some changes. I've been wanting to inlay gingko leaves so that may be my next project. Most people don't have a clue just how difficult it is to fabricate a nice box.Thanks for all your help.
Phillip
Phillip -
I work with Cocobolo a lot. I run it through my planer and through my jointer. The only problem is that the blades need to be sharp and have to be sharpened often cause of the nature of Cocobolo.
For finishing, I seal it with dewaxed shellac and then finish with lacquer (spray gun). Zinsser Seal Coat (dewaxed shellac) does a good job for the sealer.
For pieces that contain lots of wax, wash the surface with Acetone (use rubber gloves and do it outside in a good breeze).
Without the sealer, no film type finish will stick, in my experience.
Oh yeah, the only glue I've been able to get to work is System Three T-88 epoxy.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
Edited 8/19/2005 9:43 pm ET by PlaneWood
Mike, Thanks for taking your time to help me out.It was just a stroke of luck but I had just replaced the blades in my planer when I began this Cocobolo project. I only had to edge joint the piece I was working, but because of the swirling grain, I did have noticeable tear-out from the planer. I had no doubt that this would happen so I just left it about 1/8-inch proud. I sanded this off which eliminated most to the tear-out. I'm beginning to think that I should look into buying a small drum sander for all of this.My boxes will go to a chocolatier and he cannot have any odor in these boxes so shellac will definitely be used on the inside. The first prototype box was covered with Tried & True Linseed oil and looked very nice. The chocolate guy really liked the way the box looked but he said that the smell, no matter how slight, could be imparted to the goodies inside. So, it appears that I will have no choice but to use shellac. I've used shellac a lot and am familiar with its properties but it just does not bring out the grain like T&T does.The Cocobolo will be used solely as an insert, in the box top. I guess it is truly a frame and panel top, so no glue will be involved in that regard. However, I may want to make very small feet from Cocobolo for the box bottom and may want to use some adhesive for that. Small screws may be better. Time will tell.Again, thanks for all the information that you provided.Regards,
Phillip
I agree with Mike, especially using epoxy.
Have you tried Owl in DesPlaines? Much bigger and the selection is focused toward fine woodworking, the Lombard location focuses on cabinetry and construction mostly.
O.K. First time poster, long time lurker. I have had the greatest pleasures working with this wood. It finishes well and to a great luster. I use grits to 2000 as stated previously here but use Watco teak oil as a wet sanding lube. You can finish with a coat or two of wax for protection, but it probably won't give you any more luster than you get from that method of sanding. Gorgeous wood and don't be afraid of it...Tim
Tim,Welcome to the forums! We are all honored that you have decided to 'come in from the cold', so to speak. Ha!Yes, this is my very first Cocobolo experience and so far, so good. I was not admitted to the Emergency Ward, and don't stutter - anymore that is. All kidding aside, I did read up before I began working this wonderful wood species. It is terribly expensive and just the rental on the use of the front end loader to get it home nearly broke the piggy. Man, this stuff is HEAVY!Anyway, the board just caught my eye with its incredible grain and it also gave me some relief from having to constantly be looking for appropriate stock for my box tops.You're the second person going on about Teak Oil. Is it that much better or superior to Danish? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.I hear you on the 2000x grit. If you read my post to Elcoholic (25164.16), I use pumice and rotten stone which probably achieves the same end. I could not - use oil with the pumice because the swarf would embed itself in the grain and I would never be able to get it out. This is why I use the pumice/rotten stone dry because it allows me to blow it out of the nooks and crannies with my air compressor. Different strokes.I need to get to work. Stay tuned. Again, welcome and thanks for your comments.Regards,
Phillip
Yes, I use teak oil because it is thinner and is more readily absorbed into the wood as compared to tung or danish. In fact, it's formulateed for dense woods such as rosewoods (Dalbergias, Cocobolo= dalbergia retusa). I'd suggest to go as fine as possible with the sanding, although I'm not sure of rottenstone and/or pumice on it. Try a small test piece. Before glueing, wipe all glue surfaces with denatured alcohol. I've used Titebond III and polyurethane glues wthout a problem. Hope this helps..Tim
P.S. I have a special billet about 5' x 8" x 2.25" with some gorgeous oranges and reds just waiting for that special project to come along. Also, it may have a tendency to cup if re-sawn too thin.
>> I use teak oil because it is thinner and is more readily absorbed into the wood as compared to tung or danish.
Who's "teak oil" do you use? Every formulator has a different product.
Howie.........
My favorite for dense woods like the rosewoods etc. is Amazon's Golden Teak, but I use Watco with other hardwoods before a few coats of tung or Waterlox if I'm using an oil or oil-based for a finish.
Firstly somewhere in some book lies the quote that wood, "does not have oil in it". To that quote I'd have to agree because if I take a board of say cocobollo or teak or some other wood said to be "oily" and lay it down on a piece of kraft paper I'd expect to get an "oily" stain left on the paper from the wood. This ha sneve been the case in all my years of working with various species of wood. I'd agree some woods may "feel oily" like cypress, teak, cocobollo, etc. but I think the goop you're referring to would probably be more appropriately called resinous.
As for sanding Cocobollo I did a rather large project about 7 years ago that had about 30 Bd. Ft. of Cocobollo in it. All I can say was that I used a lot of sandpaper starting at the 150 grit range and used progressively less (a lot less) after 220 grit. By the time I got up to around 400 I think I went through about two sheets or so. Besides sanding alot I did a lot of scraping and planing when the tearout wasn't too bad.
Ted,Thanks for your comments.I think, after what I have learned so far, is that I have to agree with you. The exterior of the board I purchased gave the board an appearance which suggested that it was loaded with oil. However, after re-sawing I realized that the interior was much drier than I had anticipated.It works just fine in regards to jointing and planing. The planing left a lot of tear out, but I assumed that would happen due to the grain configuration. Because of this, I left the board about 1/16-inch proud so I could sand off the tear-out. This did not quite work out as planned - to my satisfaction anyway - so I will have to leave a bit more excess next time. In regards the sanding of it, my paper loaded up in no time at all. Someone suggested Mirka's Abranet but so far I have not found a vendor to my liking. This is a mesh type of sanding medium which, from everything I have read, is far superior to any other type of abrasive for wood. At any rate, as with any new project, I have learned much which is good.Thanks again,
Phillip
I used an Aluminum Oxide Stearated paper from Klingspor. Yes I had some clogging of the paper but I found I could minimize it by 1) frequently dusting off the surface of the work. 2) controlling the pressure I exerted on the sanding block. 3) frequently dusting off the sandpaper and when necessary gently scraping any of the crud off that had started to accumulate on the paper. By the way I found the dust to be extremely noxious and I'd recommend wearing appropriate breathing protection as well as protective clothing. On a hot day I had the dust settle inside my collar and the perspiration made it soluble enough to penetrate my pores. Needless to say I had a pretty substantial reaction that followed me around for at least a month and perhaps longer.
OK so I'm nuts.. Been called worse..
Try some 3M Drywall, Plaster sanding sheets.. Come in different grits.. Usually just 220 and 120.. open grid so you can 'bang' the stuff out.. Maybe get it close to what you need and use the better sheets after.......
EDIT:: I forgot.. I even wash then out with water pressure.. Let them dry a day or so.. And still work...
Edited 8/23/2005 11:54 am ET by WillGeorge
Will,Thanks for the good idea! I've used it before. What I have is 'Durite' and that brand is made by Norton. Problem I have is that it is very hard to find in 9x11 sheets. Home Despot and Lowe's only carry it in 4-inch wide strips to fit the plastic holder used to flatten out the rough plastering surfaces. I want to avoid buying a drum sander because I just don't like to sand. I'd rather plane surfaces, but there are times when you have no choice but to sand.If you think you're nuts, try this one on. I have an idea to turn my Jet oscillating drum sander (the vertical type) into a manual drum sander that I will be able to hand feed the Cocobolo through. If my thinking is not too far off, all I will have to make is a fence so that I can feed the stock into the 'cut' if you will. This tool has been gathering dust for a long, long time. I may have to replace the table with a new MDF one, but that won't be a problem either. Doing this will give it a longer reach.If I could find that Durite stuff in larger sheets it would be ideal to quickly rough dimension difficult grained wood such as Cocobolo. I may take a look at Norton's website if I can find.Thanks again.PhillipP.S. I noticed that you live in Chicago. We live in Oak Park.
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