I’m new to the forum. I am an amateur hobbyist but really enjoy working with wood. I have built a few projects, but in the last 2 years I haven’t taken the time to work on anything. My wife gave me as a recent birthday gift a 2-day class in CT taught by Gary Rogowski and it has really rekindled my interest in the hobby.
I have a workshop space in my basement which is about 13’6″ x 14′. After taking account for the storage cabinets along one wall and a workbench along the opposite wall, the 14′ dimension gets reduced to about 10′. I have some power tools including a contractor table saw, a Craftsman planer, a CM saw, a drill press, a couple of routers, etc.
I have already determined that I need to buy a bandsaw (the majority of articles on the topic put that at or near the top of the priority list). I’m looking seriously at the Laguna 16″ saw (not the HD), with the hope that I’ll never have to buy another. I need to get some 220v power to my shop, but I’ll find somebody to do that for me.
Now to the question: I am seriously considering buying a combination machine rather than buying other machines one by one. The Laguna X31 has a table saw, planer, jointer, shaper, and slot mortiser. If you take affordability out of the equation, my main question is whether the space I have available is just too small to accommodate a combination machine? What is the typical “usage envelope” around a machine like this? I don’t expect to be ripping huge sheets of plywood. I do plan to start making some stools and smaller pieces of furniture.
Two other related questions: in what way is a shaper different from a router mounted in a router table? Also, what exactly is a slot mortiser used for?
I would appreciate any guidance on how crazy the idea is, and if anybody has any strong views on the Laguna machines I suspect that will come through too… 🙂
Brian
Replies
I have NO idea.. I couldn't afford one of those if I sold everything!..
I would just talk with the company you wish to purcaase from and ask (insist) for a recommended 'minimum' space floor plan needed to safely operate the tool..
I'll bet they have something ...
Also, I would think the idea is FAR from crazy if you can afford it!
"Two other related questions: in what way is a shaper different from a router mounted in a router table? Also, what exactly is a slot mortiser used for?"
A spindle moulder or shaper has much more torque than a router and uses a much larger cutter - that translates in being able to do panel raising, large size rebates, tall mouldings such as crown mouldings (up to 4in high on the X31) in a single pass as opposed to the router's somewhat limited pass per capacity.
A slot mortiser is used to cut round-ended slots or mortises which can be used to make loose tenon mortise and tenon joints, or by squaring out the ends to make conventional mortises leaving the tenons to be cut on the table saw or spindle section of the X31 (or if so inclined on the bandsaw)
If you are going to attempt to work in such a small space, can you get the X31 down there? And how heavy are the individual components? More to the point, will you be able to get it out when you move? Your workspace is restricted, unlike a garage where extra space for planing/thicknessing, panel sawing, rip sawing, etc can be had by opening the doors, and that will ultimately restrict the size of timbers/panels you can work. If you can get it in and work with it I reckon you'll have to be very clever with your bench heights, etc and the X31 will have to go onto a castor base to get the best out of it. I suggest you draw everything out to scale on pieces of paper, with other pieces of paper to represent the largest potential sizes of timber stock you envisage using then see how you are going to work in there. Remember that you will need to be able to get around the machine as well.
Not trying to pour cold water on the idea - I started with a Lurem C210 combo in a similar sized cellar many years back. It was "interesting" at times!
Good luck!
Scrit
Edited 12/8/2005 9:46 am by Scrit
Brian,
Fine Woodwoking published a review on combination machines (issue #161). The article is great and will clear a lot of questions.
When you talk about combo machines, is a matter of prices and you get what you pay for.
From all I have seen, I like the Felder CF 731 or CF 741. It is a whole new world that one of the combo . Another nice one is the KNAPP, but for the money, I guess the MiniMax is the ticket. It is all about the money.
If interested I have the phone numbers for the Felder and Minimax rep. Great guys.
Brian,
I would love a combo machine, and loked very seriously at an old second hand one last year but couldn't justify the outlay as a hobbyist.
Having said that, the Felder has extras such as a mount that allows you to use router bits in the shaper. This would significantly increase the versatility of the tool for a hobbyist with small runs of mostly small profiles compared with tooling up a shaper for everything.
Without being didactic (I DON'T have one of these and have only ever used them in a big shed) some of the machines appear reasonably modular. Therefore one aspect of selection might well be breaking into smaller bits for moveing in and out.
Dave
I had an older Robland combo machine in my previous shop that had about 12' x 12' of floor space, it worked fine, I built about 200 blanket chests in five years plus a lot of other stuff. I only went to separate machines when I moved to the country and have a big barn shop. Combo machines force you to think hard about the sequence of your work, re-setting up to do a missed piece can be a pain. But you really get a lot of bang for the buck. I say research them and go for it, (I like the Mini Max based on what I have read and saw in their video).
bwiele,
Welcome. My initial thoughts is that you should wait a bit and see how things evolve interest wise and production wise. I've got about the same space as you and it can be a real struggle making it all work....especially when it comes to the glue-up and finishing phases of a project.
The combo machine may be a great idea because I'm sure you'll soon want a router table or shaper and, quite frankly, I can't fit a good sized jointer(8")in my shop. However, I did manage to put a lathe in which is a lot of fun. I'd love to have a wide belt sander for cabinet work and because I'm resawing so much more with the bandsaw...hardly never buy plywood anymore. So, my point is things evolve....and one of these days I've gotta get serious about dust collection.
Hi Brian,
Owning a combo machine is not crazy, many of use own them.
As another poster suggested about the minimum floor space needed. I would also inquire about the ability of the combo you pick to be brought into your basement workshop. Many of these machines are humogous and heavy, which is a good thing assuming that the beast can be brought into your basement workshop, or is a bad thing if it can not.
My Minimax jointer/planer combo (all 1100lbs of it) machine just barely fit through my 30" walkout basement door with a 1/8" to spare. Most of the full blown combo's are much bigger and heavier that my jointer/planer unit
Best of luck
Edited 12/8/2005 8:23 am ET by BOBABEUI
Thanks to all of you for your feedback. I have a walk-out basement with double-doors, and my shop door is 36" wide (planned for reasons such as this). I have to make one 90 degree turn, but I was able to get a 100" bench top in without standing it up by use of space in an adjacent room. The manufacturer has given me some assurance it will fit. I'll probably hold their feed to the fire on specifics on dimensions before I order anything. They are having a pretty good sale on the X31 right now, including the mobility kit and free shipping.
Edited 12/8/2005 10:51 am ET by bwiele
Here's a link with answers to every question you have re the X31 (I googled to learn what an X31 looked like and happened to hit the mother lode - grin):
X31 Info at WoodCentral.com He specifically discusses the concept on "one alley" for accessing all the tools.
Cool tool. Good luck. Color me jealous...
I'd really have to love a machine to spend that much time writing a review about it! Thank you very much for finding it. The author clearly had a lot of extra work assembling it, but the overall tone seems pretty positive about the machine. I know there will be some assembly for a new machine (particularly if anything has to be removed to get it into the shop), but I don't expect it's more than a day's worth of effort. I'm pretty certain if I buy the Combination machine and the Bandsaw, that I can work a better price.
I'm going to get a price for the wiring for the higher voltage needed, I'm going to a show in Edison, NJ next weekend to see their stuff in person, then I may place an order for them, with the hope that I will have them both for AT LEAST a very long time, if not until the end of MY time! That being said, I'm 37, so hopefully that's a very long time...
Brian
Brian,
You might want to check out the offerings from Minimax, Hammer or Felder. I know that Minimax was offering a year end 'sale' if purchasing a combo and bandsaw. If you are going to the local woodworking show in Edison, I am fairly certain that all three machines will be represented.
Best of luck.
did you win the Power Ball Lottery?..........thats a lotta $$$$ but good stuff. Just so you know, a band saw is at the top of the list as "must have tools" but as hobbiest a Leguna may be overkill unless you are spending your inheritance. Great tool though..Wish I had one but my Taiwaneese 16" BS works fine.and it cost me about $300. If I weer going to upgrade I would consider the Rikon 18" that is selling for about $900
Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Hey Cherry,
No Powerball unfortunately. Just a lot of hard work and more than a little luck, all for which I am very grateful :).
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