The recent review of combo jointer/planers was an eyeopener.
I love my Jet 6″ jointer but 6″ is just too narrow and calls for slicing up good wide boards – and you really don’t gain much by going to an 8″ machine so I’ve eliminated that choice.
Now, I find, I can get a 12″ jointer and eleminate the floor space of one of two machines. Plus a 59″ bed length and, reportedly, no snipe, is a real plus. Has anyone had experience with these machines?
Frosty
Replies
Many folks think these machines are new technology. The technology goes back around 50's. So that says a lot about the combo tools. Folks in the states are just a lot slower adapting to new wood working tools for some reason. The slot mortiser goes back to the 50' as well but for some strange reason the Festool Domino is creating quite a storm but before that the slot mortiser seemed to meet a lot of resistance. They never covered it properly in FWW and that's where I first learned about slot mortisers 25 years ago.
There's a bunch of groups on yahoo dedicated to the combo machines. search yahoo groups for Felder, Hammer, Minimax, etc.
Hi RickThe combo machine is common over here. I just passed on a Henry Ford combo machine circa 1940, sale price approx USD2000 that was a 16" over&under. Is/was this an uncommon machine, assuming that the venerable H.Ford was the famous one. (yes, the logo was the same.)Cheers,eddie(Who used to work at the cement plant where Henry Ford's original kilns were rebuilt; he sold them when he needed more space for an automobile plant, and the rest is history... ...)edit: jointer bed and planer bed length was approx 8'
Edited 3/3/2007 1:48 am by eddiefromAustralia
Sounds interesting. It would be great to see some pictures of the combo machine and some kind of documentation for the records. Didn't know about such a tool before now. Parks, in the states, made a 12" combo planer jointer but it wasn't anywhere the sophisticationf of the Euro's. Crescent , the states again, made a combo jointer, bandsaw, shaper, horizontal drill at the turn of the century.
Hi RickIt's probably on its way to Pakistan by now. A fair few of the decommissioned shops over here (put out of business by CNC shops) are just containerised into a 40' box and sent to the near east, where the motors run at the same voltage and it's a simple matter of changing over the plugs. About 30% of woodworking dealers in this part of the world are doing this. (note that, all, this was a statement of fact and hopefully not an invitation to bemoan the state of manufacturing.)I'll ask in the next week for you, however, in the off chance that it stayed behind.THe thing was solid and designed with a P&O influence, all rounded edges.The outfeed table was supported on pillars about 2.5" round, the infeed table was hinged on a couple of massive 1" pins and lifted up. The length of the table was about 8' long, and the infeed and outfeed tables of the thicknesser were about the same length.If it's still available, I'll get the dealer to take a photo out of curiosity. From memory, the thing weighed pretty well close to a tonne.
I have a Felder 12" jointer/planer. It's discontinued now I think, and their Hammer is the 12" model. It's not as good only because you have less fine tuning of the knives.
The biggest downside I can think of is the shorter bed. With Felder, it's solvable with some of their extension accessories, effectively increasing, by a lot, the bed lengths. I decided on the Felder over the MiniMax simply because the footprint was smaller. Both machines, like both companies, are great in the customer service department.
Don't you ever believe you don't get snipe. In planer mode, you are feeding the wood at a fairly low height, so it's tough to insert it dead flat. If space is a premium, and you want a wide jointer (those were my tow big issues), then they are great solutions. Also, I saw in the new Grizzly catalog, they are going to offer one as well, and with one of those Byrd knockoff cutters, which makes it a great thing IMHO.
I'm waiting for Rikon to release the improved version of their 10" jointer/planer combo -- perhaps next year.
Yes, I had a 12” Robland with a slot mortiser some years ago. I sold it when I moved to a larger shop and replaced it with single function machines, bad move, very bad. The combo J/P/M is the best kept secret out there. The Europeans really have it over us on that one. About 10 years ago Delta had one out there for a while but it disappeared never to seen again. I see Grizzly has one now also, at a great price if the machine is well built. Even with all the space I now have I’d sell my planer and jointer and buy another one as long as it is a 14” to 16” model that has the mortiser.
I am considering getting rid of my 6" jointer and 13" planer and upgrading to a combo machine, so there is all good info on this thread. I checked on the Grizzly site and cannot find any mention of a combo machine. Can anyone point me to the right place on their website?Thanks,
Dan
Daninvan,
Check the Grizzly site again. The combination planer/jointer machines are there. Click on the jointer site and you'll see them pictured there.
Dan
Dear Dan,Straight knives:http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0633Indexed head:http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0634Best,John
I had the Hammer jointer/planer and sold it. It was a fine machine, but when my shop size increased I went with separate machines. Maybe it's me, but I don't seem to work sequentially. I constantly found myself needing to go back and forth between planer and jointer. It's not a major operation but it gets old. I really loved the mortiser, but that is a fairly difficult change-over. I think it made more sense when they mounted on the back and didn't need to be removed, but then they take up more space. I kept the mortising table and use it with a router now, and I find the router cuts better with the higher speed. The shorter beds on the jointer (only 49" on the mine) were a bit of an issue, and the combos cost more than separate machines. I'm happier with separate machines, but I have the space for them now.
Steve
frosty,
I'm waiting for delivery of my Hammer Combo machine (sliding table saw, shaper, jointer/planer). I attended a demo of the MiniMax machine (didn't get to use it "hands on) and have operated the Hammer machines over a several week period.
They are superb machines, both. I sort of disagree with FWW's first choice to MiniMax (obviously, I bought the Hammer). It comes down to personal preference in the end (and maybe simply preference for blue paint vs red, or the other way around). The Hammer has a slightly better overall fit and finish appearance. Both are much better than the competition but neither is better than the other in any significant way.
The Hammer has a 55" table. It has available extensions which can be attached or removed in seconds. They line up with the tables perfectly when attached, without a bit of fuss. Planing boards mostly up to 6 ft, the 55" length of the jointer bed was not a limitation, for longer boards I might get an infeed extension. There was no snipe on the planer - none.
The Tersa heads on the MiniMax are a marvel of engineering. The knives are slid into place, then become seated by centrifugal force when the machine is started. Has to be seen to be appreciated. To be removed, they must be knocked down from their seated position with a scrap of wood and a mallet (kind of low-tech, considering the overall design of the head!) Hammer could have used them instead of the more typical pin indexed knives. In use, there is absolutely no difference in actual performance or down time due to knife changes. At first, one spends much more time gawking at the beautifully finished heads and ease of changeover than is really needed to accomplish the job. These machines are little jewels of engineering and execution. The Hammer knives are less expensive.
Rich
Frosty,
I have owned a Minimax FS-41 Elite j/p for about 2 1/2 years, all I can say is Wow. I bought the machine not to save room, but as an upgrade for larger jointer capacity (now 16 inches). The Tersa knives are really nice, but even more impressive is the repeatability of the digitial height counter on the planner, it's scary. The table length on this machine is 84 inches, which is fairly respectable for a jointer of this size, but quite frankly I find joint wider not tearabily long boards more than really long boards, like a millwork shop would, so the machine is perfect for me.
I hope to buy the slot mortiser attachment for the machine soon. The mortiser on this machine mounts on backside of the machine, thankfully out of the way.
My only gripe with the machine is the orange plastic 'pork chop' US style jointer guard is piece of junk, really has no place on a machine in this price range/quality. Worse feature of the guard, is the spring that is suppose to return the guard back to the vertical fence seldomly does, more often than not I have to nunge the guard with my hip to return it back.
Edited 3/2/2007 12:05 pm ET by BOBABEUI
Frosty:
I have a Felder combination machine with 16 inch Jointer/Planer. It has the power drive which moves the planer table up and down. Typically, the planer table has to be in its lowest position when using the jointer so switching between the two functions requires a lot of hand cranking! With the power drive the switch over is very quick. Also, it is very easy to to set the planer for repeatability.
It's a dream to use.
Hastings
It sure is nice to know that I am not alone in appreciating the apparent benfits of the combo - and not the first since they have been around so long. FYI, I checked the MiniMax website and they have DROPPED THE PRICE $800! They must be expecting a deluge of orders after the story.I have a Laguna 14" BS, so I checked their website. They have a 12" J/P combo available with a mortiser. (I'm not sure why that is an option for a J/P combo.) The article says Laguna is coming out with a new model. Their salesman called 2 hours after I posted an inquiry. He didn't know about the new model - I'm afraid his boss will not be happy I told him. They must have some of the older models in stock.Thanks for the feedback.Frosty
"I'm not sure why [a mortiser] is an option for a J/P combo"
Becasue it's convenient to drive it from the J/P spindle. No extra motor. It bolts to the side of the J/P nicely.
Rich
I see you got you Unisaw working OK. It is a good idea to check and tighten mag switch connections periodically, be sure to remove power before going inside the switch.
I think MiniMax had to lower the price $800 to compete with the Hammer. The Hammer was very close in the rating and most consumers will go for the lower price better value machine. I still like the Hammer better, I have a Hammer B3 saw/shaper comb, but I would like to see the MiniMax before a purchase is made. Let us know what you decide on purchasing.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
JerryWorking around the Hammer blade guard looked like a mess to me, and if I remember correctly it takes 93 cranks to move the table. But, I don't like the idea of changing dust outlets on the MM every time. (I have an EcoGate system which opens the appropriate blast gate and starts the DC when a machine is turned on. It requires a small wire from the mach to the blast gate which I run through the DC hose. The system is better than "sliced bread".)I do want to see one in action before I buy. So far, I don't know where to find one. I'll keep you posted.Frosty (Jerry, too)
I do not like having to change the dust hood hose on the MM and 75 cranks on the Hammer conversion to planer would be better that changing the dust hose. Their is some discussion on the FOG about making an adaptor and using a cordless drill to change table height on the Felder/Hammer JP combos. The Euro guard will take some getting use to. I read some where that the pork chop guard on the MM does not work well, I would rather have a safe guard. Their are many factors to weigh before spending big bucks on a JP you need to see them both in action.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
My woman and I visited an incredible antique shop on SouthStreet about a year ago, but can't remember the name of it---shouldn't be to hard to find if your in that area. Also, if your looking for a unique place to eat, try the Moshulu, by penns landing.
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