Hi, I’m considering acquiring a 10″ combo joiner/planer for my limited space workshop. I’m a hobbyist, not a professional. What do you think about these tools? Are they worth it? Anything I should know/avoid/look for? Makes and model recommendations welcome.
Thanks,
Joe
Replies
I've never used one, so keep that in mind. I've never used a jointer at all, and get by without one just fine.
But I use a thickness planer a lot. I would never be without it. Mine is 12-1/2 inches, and I often wish it was wider. A 10 inch thickness planer would be a no go for me. You can't even run a 1x12 through it.
If I had a bunch of money and more room, I'd have a nice 21 inch planer with a spiral head. But I still wouldn't bother with a jointer.
interesting John. Do you joint your edges by hand?
Also a hobbyist. I had a Delta lunchbox and a 6" jointer when I decided to uprgade. I went with a 3HP 12" helical combo from Canadian Woodworker. The 10" combos were too lightweight and the beds way too short. The wide jointer is a definite plus but I use the planer more often. That they are both helical is awesome. If I had more room I'd go bigger. The beds on the combo are about as long as those on my old 6" jointer. The performance of the planer is much better than the old lunchbox.
I mostly joint edges for panel glueups right off the table saw. I find no need to "joint" anything else.
I would seriously question the value of the 10" jointer/planer combos I've seen, the beds are just to short to be effective in my opinion. My Grizzly 12" planer/jointer combo or equivalent is about the minimum effective tool I have seen. The jointer is the first tool used to prep rough lumber in the traditional manner, not as an edge jointer, but as a means to face joint rough sawn boards that are invariably twisted and bowed in several planes no matter how straight they appear. If the jointer tables are not long enough the jointer will not effectively flatten a bowed board but instead simply smooth the bow which will remain throughout the milling process since planer feed rollers exert enough pressure to temporarily flatten a bowed board so the end result is a smooth, uniform thickness bowed board, not exactly a good foundation for quality work.
Now having said that, if you work mostly with shorter lengths of wood 3-4' with an occasional 5 footer you may be able to get by with shorter tables and a 10" jointer is much more useful than any 6" jointer for stock preparation, which in my opinion are good for one thing only and that is edge jointing and don't justify the expense or shop space they consume.
I have a 13" planer I use a lot. See, all the tables I build are different species of wood edge-glued. And since 3/4" wood from one supplier can be hairs thicker than from another they obviously have to be planed. Wish I had a helical head planer but since I haven't hit the lottery yet... Haven't found need for a jointer yet, to answer your whole question.
Mikaol
Just my 2 cents. IMO, it relates more to the kind of work you do. I’m a hobbiest as well and have a 6” jointer and a 12 1/2 in lunchbox planner. The kids keep throwing builds at me that I really could use a 12 in jointing capability, and 10 in would solve 85% of those problems. If I was working smaller pieces, well, I’d be fine with what I have. Actually for the work I’ve been doing, for the money I’d be laying out I’d probably be better off with an 18/36 drum sander. BUT, if ya are running stuff to 10 in regularly from rough sawn lumber, well a 10”+ jointing capacity may be worth it. I’ve a solid oak case I’m working on presently with 10” deep sides. So, tomorrow I’ll either throw together a sled for my planer so I can joint one face or I’ll break out my no. 7 hand plane and enjoy the ride.
I live in a rural area and haven’t yet found a pro shop that can mill 12”+ stock for me (the pros round these parts use ply for their casework, which I get.)
So, the reason it’s only 2 cents worth is that I’ve never used a combo machine. If I were in the market I’d still go back to thinking about the work I do. For what I’ve gotten into, a 10” capacity wouldn’t help me much. 12+in though, that might be a game changer. Best of luck sorting this out. Oh, yeah, if space is an issue, then that would probably push me more towards a combo machine. But, in a pinch, with a sled, I can joint to 12+” on my lunchbox planer. Or build my muscles up doing it by hand.
Best regards.
I have a makita 2030s combo. Not the type of combo you see nowadays, but kind of a side by side deal sharing the motor and drive shaft.
The planer is great, and I find it to be better than most of the lunch box benchtop style planers I've used. The jointer is a 6" and it's not really anything special. Fairly short bed, but it would be similar in size to the 10" ones that you see out there.
I sometimes find myself wishing I had more width than 6" for a jointer, but I far more often find myself wishing for a longer bed. A wider jointer is great, but without the accompanying length I find them to be handicapped greatly.
Ideally, I would love to have a 12" jointer/plner combo that you see out there. More $$ but would be well worth the investment with the longer bed length to accompany the width.
But far beyond that... I can't see myself getting by with a 10" planer. I regularly find myself wishing I had more width in the planer than I do the jointer.
I will comment, that contrary to what some others have said.... I would never go without a jointer after getting used to how to use one properly. I think it's a misnomer that the planer is more important than the jointer. If anything the jointer is likely the most important tool in your shop, especially if you want to do truly high quality work. Without being able to get properly flat, youre just planing an off kilter board and making it thinner but still off. I've had just a planer in the past and tried the whole sled route to joint, but that's a gamble and a hassle to boot.
In all truth, the jointer and the planer are a duo. They both will work better with the other in tow.
In your case, I think your money would be better spent finding a decent used jointer with a decent bed length (8" width is good for likely 90% of what you'll do) and get a solid bench top planer, which again will be good for 90% of work. 10" in a planer would be a huge let down I think.
or save your pennies and get a 12" combo!
I have a Hitachi F1000A machine that I've used extensively for 35+ years. I'm re-reading the early issues of FWW ('75-84) and these were the cat's meow back in those days. No longer imported, though. I think mine was about $1400 new and by the time they quit importing over $4000. My local repair shop buys all the used ones they can and sells them still. The only problem I've had is when the rollers jammed and the belts got worn before I could shut it off. If you can find a used one of these in good condition, I'd recommend.
I use an 8 inch deWalt combo. About 25 years old now.
I don't use the jointer part much, but do like having it. Large panels are not my thing...
For me the big advantage is space - I get two machines in the space of one.
I am however considering replacement, and the options are between separate planer and jointer or a nice Hammer combo machine. I think the latter will win if I can find the $$$. At 12 inches with decent length tables and spiral cutters, it's certainly desirable...
The problem with bigger gear, is that there is always a bigger board than you can manage. A smaller planer/thicknesser combined with a wide drum sander gives the best of both worlds.
Some disadvantages:
1. It's a total pain to set up, the tables and knives all having to work together. Most of this is jointer-side issues though.
2. It's a very big planer.
3. Jointer tables are a bit short. I only use it for longer pieces
A shout out to user 4622261 and his Hitachi F-1000A I used one for 30 years real nice machine for what it is, just hamstrung by its 6" jointer and inability to accept a helical cutterhead. I recently replaced mine with a 12"Grizzly combo machine, the build quality isn't even close, but I couldn't afford the Hammer I would have preferred. The Hitachi now resides in my son's garage shop and should serve him well for years to come.
PS. If you know of a source for new knifes for the Hitachi please pass it on. The machine had a unique spring knife adjustment system that worked well but requires proprietary knives.
I've been enticed by the Hammer 331, but have a question. It seems to me that the planing operation on combination units is close to the floor, which can be a problem for those of us with back issues. Has anyone found a way to deal with the lower planer height? Raising the whole unit is possible I guess, but would it then become unstable?
I've had a Jet 12 inch combo for 15 years. It saves space and you get 12 inch jointing. The downside is of course the changeover, but it's easier on the Jet than many others.
Joe, doing woodwork as a "hobby" rather than as a profession doesn't indicate to what level of precision you wish to work. Some of the finest work is done by ammeters because a professional, while capable, can't make money doing work beyond what the market will bear.
That said, it depends upon what you want to do, at what level, and how much imprecision and fiddling you want to do that will determine what you do. If precision isn't an issue, then a planer alone can work. If you are doing smaller work, and not doing a large amounts of it, then a combination machine can be helpful. But if you are doing large projects, or needing to go back and forth between jointing and planing on a regular basis, then two machines should become your target.
If this is going to become a regular part of your life, remember that you can grow into it. Get the best machines and tools you can afford at the time with the understanding that you can trade up as your skills and space increase.
I have an Hammer A3-31 with the "Silent Power" helical head. Hammer is a brand withing the Felder Group, which makes incredible machinery for professional woodworking shops and factories. Hammer is the light pro/hobbyist brand within Felder.
I love it. It is amazingly quiet. The finish quality is fantastic. It is a true parallelogram table. For planing you can get an optional digital (non-electronic) indicator which allows you to get repeat cuts to within a hundredth of an inch. It is rock-solid. Build quality is fantastic. I run mine on 220v power.
The planer bed is low only when you are planing something super thick. The changeover is quick - less than a minute. When starting the changeover from jointer mode, the planer bed is around 26" from the floor. The handle to raise or lower the bed is 19" at its lowest point (from the 26" bed height) and is really easy to turn.
To make your own decision, first define "hobbyist." Are you in the shop a few hours, or all the time? Next, decide where you want your woodworking to go. Are you ok buying wood from the big box store, or do you want to mill your own lumber to the size you need? The more hours you spend, and the more you want to explore other wood sizes and types, the more you need a jointer/planer. If you love resawing by hand and sharpening saws, you could probably get by with handplanes. I've taken rough lumber to final size by hand for projects. That is why I bought my A3-31.
I believe this is the best way to get a 12" joiner. It is also the best way to get a 12" helical cutter for your planer.
Last I knew, the waiting time for an A3-31 after paying the 20% deposit is about six months. That may have improved.
If you don't have a bandsaw with a 12" or greater resaw capacity, get that first.
Cost for the A3-31 with the options that I have, after show discounts, etc, was a hair under $5K. It is made in Austria. The tables are flat. Other brands made in less persnickity places cost only a thousand or so less. You get a lot for that extra $1K.
The cost of a high-quality tool is only paid once. The cost of a poor-quality tool is paid every time you us it.
I have had the Jet 12" combo unit with helical heads for a few years now. I purchased it to save space and because I wanted a wider jointer. I absolutely love having a 12 inch jointer. But I do miss my Dewalt 735 planer with helical heads. The Jet planer is good but a down side to the combo unit is that the planer is lower to the ground.
I find that the changeover is not a big deal at all - takes less than a minute. To get accurate thicknesses I added a Wixey remote reader. I think it is an essential add on.
So all in all I do think that from a space perspective they are absolutely worth it. Plus, I can't imagine not having a 12" jointer now that I have one.
PS. If you know of a source for new knifes for the Hitachi please pass it on. The machine had a unique spring knife adjustment system that worked well but requires proprietary knives.
I've replaced blades with the current Hitachi benchtop planer, https://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-972011-12-Inch-Planer-Jointer/dp/B0000223K0/ref=asc_df_B0000223K0/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309763890402&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10966860399567043245&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014939&hvtargid=pla-579405034930&psc=1
Personally I find a planer-thicknesser (jointer - planer in US parlance) to be a fundamentally necessary machine for getting most rough planks into rectangular chunks ready for cutting into the parts & joints for a piece of furniture. It must surely make life more difficult not to do the jointing befoe doing the thickness planing.
In Europe (including the UK) 10" planer thicknessers are quite common, costing from a few hundred to a few thousands. THe one I have cost £800 seventeen years ago and a similar model now costs about twice that.
Here are a few pics illustrating the sequence to turn a great irregular chunk of oak into something that can be used for furniture parts. It's a sequence made during the construction of a hayrake table in 2009.
A couple more photos follow in the next post.
Lataxe
More photos of the planer - thicknesser doing its thing.
Once the jointer (called the planer in the UK) flattens one face and one edge (also at right angles to the first face) the plank goes underneath that table into the thicknesser (what you call planer) with the jointer-flattened face then the jointer-flattened edge providing the reference to flatten the opposite face/edge and to make the plank evenly thick and wide.
I always struggle to see how a rough plank can be made flat, square and evenly thick without this full sequence of operations, i.e. only using the thicknesser (your planer).
Even if it's possible, I suspect it involves jigs and awkward operations that are greatly simplified by having the jointer as well as the thickness planer. Having them in one integrated machine seems likely to save both workshop space and money.
Lataxe
Final photo of finished planks ready for slicing into furniture parts.
The text in the photo should say "and 2 edges flat/square to the faces".
Lataxe
I own a 12" Hammer combo machine and I love it. I definitely recommend getting the spiral cutter head. What do I love about it?
1. It's quiet, relatively speaking that is, compared to other planer machines at least. It's not "quiet" but it's not the screaming banshee other planers are. I think this is mostly because of the spiral cutter head. My previous planer had to be used in the garage, because it was too loud. This one is in the shop in the basement. It's no louder than my other machines.
2. The spiral cutter head is a kick-ass performer. You almost don't have to worry about grain direction and it leaves an amazingly smooth surface. The carbide inserts are very long lived. I did a lot of research and in my opinion the spiral cutter heads of Felder/Hammer are the best of them all.
3. No snipe. Unless you screw up. Support the wood as it's coming off of the machine and your good.
4. Relatively quick change over from one mode to the other.
5. 12" jointer! I mean come on. Totally incredible.
Downsides...
1. It ain't cheap.
2. It's a beast, 700 lbs
3. You require really good dust collection. I think that's true of most combo machines, they push dust collectors to their limits. But I say for certain the the Hammer does. You want at least 500 CFM and some efficient duct work.
I own a Felder AD951 jointer/planer (20" x 8' +/-) and couple this with a Felder sliding table saw... all within a 400 sq' space. At this level, the individual performance for the jointer and the planer is excellent - and I highly recommend this machine for anyone tight of space and with the available cash.
I can't speak for other units... though, I assume Martin's are every bit as good, and more expensive to boot.
Operating these takes some time... as you need to sequence the work differently; and you can't let the change over time become a hassel. My unit has an electronic height adjustment, accurate to within less than a millimeter; so there is no manual effort to adjust the planer bed whenever I'm converting from one operation to another. Without the electronic assist, my guess is that it would be a real pain.
If you go the route of a combo machine, because of space constraints, you need to determine a location where it can stay forever... my Felder weighs close to 2,000 lbs - I have it opposite the slider, backed-up to a side wall (you do need to leave space for lifting the planer tables.
A good alternative to the Felder is the Minimax... these are fine operating machines - based on the last time I researched them - about 3 years ago.
a couple thoughts after reading each of the above comments...
Felder's Hammer line is very good. I have the N4400 Bandsaw, and abuse it to no-end... in my 7 years of commission work, I have yet to 'push' the machine, and I work Teak, Ipe, Jatoba and other tough hardwoods. I do run Lenox Di-Master II and Lenox carbide blades, and I know this helps with the cutting performance.
That said, everything I've read about Minimax (SCMI) products has been favorable, and there appears to be a large installed base - probably larger than Felder/Hammer.
While I'm not a Festool devotee, I do own some of their products, and often think of those products as being the buy-once version of their counterparts. However, the holes they drill and dados they route look just like those from DeWalt and Porter-Cable products.
I'm in the shop most of the year, and don't have time for troublesome equipment.
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