Replies

1. 
   gary_vaiskauckas | Dec 28, 2021 08:49pm | #1

   James, I have the SawStop 3 HP PCS. I use Forrest Full Kerf 0.125" Blades. This standardization 0.125" allows me to use the same zero clearance inserts and crosscut sled for all my single blade operations.

   These are my Forrest blades:

   1. 10" Woodworker II 40 teeth (Combination)
   2. 10" Woodworker II 20 teeth (Fast Feed Rip)
   3. 10" Ply Veneer 70 teeth (Crosscuts and Plywood)
   4. 10" Custom Woodworker II 40 teeth #1 OD (Flat Bottom for Groove and Box Joints)
   5. 8" 4 Piece Finger Joint Set (new not used yet)

   American made (NJ) blades with lots of carbon steel for sharpening. Forrest sharpens blades for a reasonable fee.

   Here is a FWW #267–Mar/Apr 2018 Issue Table Saw Blade comparison:

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/2018/02/07/tool-test-tablesaw-combination-blades

   If you follow the Forrest (video) recommendation on saw blade height for various blades and different cuts the results match the FWW review.

   I have not used the Thin Kerf blades. I think Forrest recommends a dampner or stiffener when using a thin kerf blade to minimize wobble. Give Forrest technical support a call and ask them about Full Kerf vs Thin Kerf blades on your saw. I think Forrest recommends Thin Kerf on 1 1/2 HP motors and below and Full Kerf above 1 1/2 HP motors, but double check with Forrest.

   P.S. I'd puchase the 30 tooth Forrest Rip Blade vs the 20 tooth Rip Blade because my rip feed rate is not fast.

2. 
   gary_vaiskauckas | Dec 28, 2021 10:40pm | #2

   James, Here is a FWW article from 2009 comparing Thin Kerf Blades to Standard Kerf Blades by the same manufacturer. I realize it doesn't answer your original question on Thin Kerf Blades but the author's general conclusion is that Thin Kerf Blades give comparable quality cuts to Full Kerf Blades by the same manufacturer.

   FWW: #204–Mar/Apr 2009 Issue By Roland Johnson "Thin-Kerf Blades Are for Everyone. Today's blades make cleaner cuts while saving motor life"

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/membership/pdf/57198/011204042.pdf

1. 
   kelleybell21 | Dec 28, 2021 11:04pm | #3

   Hi Gary,

   Thank you very much for taking the time to prepare such a detailed reply. Just about all of my blades are Freud regualr andthin kerf.

   I will read the two F W magazine articles you referenced.

   I would love to have a 3 hp motor, but will just have to live with the 1 3/4 hp that came with the machine at least for a while longer.

   Jim

3. 
   gary_vaiskauckas | Dec 28, 2021 11:57pm | #4

   James, Freud makes very good quality blades. I use their lower end sister brand, Diablo, Thin Kerf Blades on my Miter Saw. The second article concluded that Thin Kerf Blades would be a good choice even on 3 HP saws. If I had a 1.75 HP SawStop I would not upgrade it either.

   I guess the questions are: do you encounter any issues using a Full Kerf Blade on your SawStop? If so is the blade clean and sharp? on what type of cut? on what type of wood and thickness? The answers to these questions combined with the recomendations in the articles will lead you to the right selection of blades to complement the blades you already own.

4. 
   rob_ss | Dec 29, 2021 03:10am | #5

   Ah the old which saw blade to buy question -

   I'd say it matters not which you buy, however, some thoughts:

   A combination blade is best for small saws or those where blade change is a pain. They genuinely do a great job on almost everything. You'd be very, very hard pressed to tell the difference in cut quality after the fact and the accommodations you have to make to achieve the cut quality (slightly slower cutting mostly) are pretty trivial. If you need speed, you need a bigger saw anyway.

   Dedicated rip blades are really nice - you get a lot less burning on challenging woods and they will cut more readily on the rip than a combo blade, but not by much and the difference in wood under 2" thick is negligible.
   Crosscut blades are great if you need the finest possible cut, but crosscut quality is more about workpiece support than blade type. If you are examining your work with a magnifying glass, then you need a crosscut blade and a therapist, but otherwise you don't.

   Thick or thin kerf blades - meh. Thin blades aren't that much easier on the saw - at best 10% - but they do waste less material. I used one for many years without problems. If your saw isn't up to cutting with a thicker blade, it's still going to be much more likely to bog down in thick stock, even with a thinner blade and it's like as not a bad idea to be using it for such cuts on more than a very occasional basis anyway. Remember you only gain 10% advantage with the thinner blade so you can only really cut perhaps 1/4 inch more.
   If you don't have a blade, are not getting good results with yours, or just want a new one, it makes sense to go for the thinner blade - probably the only practical disadvantage is that you have to take more passes if using the blade to hog off material. The advantage is there, just not enough to buy a replacement for a working old blade.

   The excellent FWW article linked above did not note significant differences between blades of the same brand and made only passing comment of differences between brands. Quality of cheaper blades has continued to increase in the 12 years since the article was published and nowadays there is little difference in new blade performance.
   Perhaps the carbide is softer in cheap blades. It is certainly thinner, but do they cut as well - yup, and even if the cut is not quite as perfect, or takes a hair longer, it's still a saw cut and like as not looks the same as one made by a blade 5 times the price.

   There is an argument that pricier blades are cheaper in the long run, but it's jam today vs jam tomorrow. More expensive blades cost hobbyists way more than mid range blades. They both last more or less as long and the financial opportunity cost and the risk cost of owning the more expensive item generally outweighs the slightly longer lifespan. An average hobbyist woodworker is going to take 10-15 years to wear a carbide blade to the point where sharpening is worth it so you even have to allow for inflation in cost-benefit analyses.
   Although covering skilsaw blades, this video shows that price does not necessarily mean better performance or that the blade will be more robust - some of the best performing blades where the cheapest - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssu2eLWZjwA&t=896s

   In the end, woodwork as a hobby is not just about getting the result, it's about enjoying the process. If an expensive blade makes you feel good when you use it, then go for it. If you are short of cash then a mid range combination blade is definitely for you. For most of us, it probably comes down more to the ratio of pleasure obtained to marital disharmony experienced when the price is discovered than it does to the quality of cut.

   Stumpy would disagree with me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSQJ0247ifY

1. 
   kelleybell21 | Dec 29, 2021 07:06am | #8

   Hi Rob,

   Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question. I have spent a fair amount of time reading about different types and qualities of saw blades--mostly from the blade saw companies and certainly from Fine Woodworking magazine.

   I have tended to own mostly Freud blades with some odd other brands included such as the Forrest Woodworker II that came with the Saw Stop table saw that I bought some months ago.

   I will also check out the two you tube videos that you recommended--especially the one where Stumpy does not agree with you!!

   Thanks again. Jim

2. 
   thebardowl | Dec 30, 2021 10:25am | #13

   “If you are examining your work with a magnifying glass, then you need a crosscut blade and a therapist,…”

   “For most of us, it probably comes down more to the ratio of pleasure obtained to marital disharmony experienced when the price is discovered than it does to the quality of cut.”

   Yes, and yes! (FWIW, I use a Forrest thin-kerf WWII for most everything. And I occasionally mention to my lovely wife that it does such a good job that I just don’t see why some folks see the need to buy a special crosscut blade—periodic restatement of advantages being good marketing practice, I think.)

5. 
   john_c2 | Dec 29, 2021 04:46am | #6

   I use a Freud P410 for 98 percent of my cuts. I've used Forrest and a bunch of other blades in the past, and the Freud is as good as any of them. As I got older I stopped trying to chase "perfect." Perfect doesn't exist.

   I have a flat top blade I use for cutting splines. I used to use a dedicated rip blade for cutting 12/4 and 16/4 stock. It cuts better than a crosscut blade on the thick stuff. But now I mostly rip the big stuff on a bandsaw, then clean it up on the thickness planer.

   The Freud makes remarkably smooth cuts. And no surface that touches the table saw blade is ever seen on a project. Everything sees a plane or sander after. It doesn't need to be perfect. Tablesaws are dimensioning tools, not finishing tools.

1. 
   kelleybell21 | Dec 29, 2021 06:59am | #7

   Hi John,

   Thanks for taking the time to write to me about table saw blades. I appreciate your thoughts and perspective. Jim

6. 
   jfsksa | Dec 29, 2021 08:14am | #9

   Has anyone mentioned using the standard riving knife with a thin blade? I tried it and it doesn't work. The SS website says the riving knife on the contractors saw is 0.090". Are thin kerf blades thinner than this?

1. 
   gary_vaiskauckas | Dec 29, 2021 09:53am | #10

   Jfsksa,

   Standard Kerf Blades generally have about 1/8" or 0.125" kerf.

   Thin Kerf Blades generally have about a 3/32" or 0.09375" kerf.

   The thickness of the saw kerf varies by blade and manufacturer.

   Here is the SawStop Frequently Asked Questions on Thin and Thick Kerf Blades:

   https://www.sawstop.com/support/faqs/

   "Can I use thin and thick kerf 10" blades with a SawStop saw?
   The SawStop safety system is designed for use with standard 10” blades with kerfs from 3/32” to 3/16”. Blades with kerfs much thinner than 3/32” should not be used because those blades might not be strong enough to withstand the force applied by the brake when it activates. As a result, those blades might deform and stop more slowly in the event of an accident, resulting in a more serious injury. Blades with kerfs much thicker than 3/16” are heavier than standard 1/8” kerf blades. Therefore, those blades should not be used because they may stop more slowly than standard blades in the event of an accident, resulting in a more serious injury. Similarly, stacks of 2 or more 10” blades should never be used on your SawStop saw as the combined weight of the blades may be too heavy to stop quickly. If you need to use a blade with a kerf thicker than 3/16”, use an 8” dado set with the optional SawStop 8” dado cartridge. The dado cartridge is designed for use with 8” dado sets up to 13/16” wide."

   Regarding the question of is the SawStop riving knife too thick for a thin kerf blade? It was sort of implicitly answered in the FAQ but not explicitly answered so I'd give SawStop technical support a call. In any event it is a good practice to make sure that the riving knife is aligned properly with the blade so it will not impede the saw cut.

   Here is an article explaining the math and adjustments on a SawStop Standard Kerf vs Thin Kerf Blades and Riving Knifes. Net: there is a "thin kerf riving knife" for SawStops but adjustments need to be made to go back and forth between Thin and Thick Kerf Blades and Riving Knives. The author explains how to adjust the SawStop Standard Riving Knife to work with Thin Kerf Blades. The article makes sense, but I have not personally tried it.

   https://www.trentdavis.net/wp/2019/10/23/thin-kerf-blades-and-riving-knives/

7. 
   _mj_ | Dec 29, 2021 02:05pm | #11

   I have a few blades approaching their last sharpening so I added new blades to my holiday wish list. My family came through and I now have both a Forrest WW2 and a Freud Fusion next-generation. Both are 40-tooth full-kerf that did well in recent reviews.

   I have used a thin-kerf on my SS PCS without binding, but with one of the older resharpened blades I have had binding with non-through cuts. I think it may have been ground below the riving knife.

8. 
   DRBWWing | Dec 30, 2021 08:47am | #12

   I have the good ones. IMO you’re not going to see much difference to warrant a $160 blade other than edge retention and initial sharpness.

   My 40T WWII leaves a pretty chewed up edge when ripping.

   Freud glue line 30T is like glass.

   That said, it’s the only Freud blade I have. Mostly CMT IMO that’s the best bang for the buck.

   There are many other good blades out there - Amana, Tenry, etc.

   The main thing is keep them sharp, have backups and don’t be lazy change the blade for the right application.

1. 
   _mj_ | Dec 30, 2021 11:07am | #14

   Thanks RobertE for reminding me that the family DID let me down! The glueline rip was #3 on the list... I just pushed the button on amazon. At least they left me the least expensive one..

   Merry christmas to me, and to me a good night!