Replies

1. 
   floman47 | Jun 16, 2002 01:58am | #1

   >I’ve had the Hitachi 10” duel compound for 5 years. Good saw! I’ve hade to have it repaired once, new bearings and some elect. part. When I need to buy a new saw I will look hard at the new Makita 12” a friend has it and he loves it. A lot of guys I work with have the Hitachi 8”. I see mostly Hitachi and Makita on the job.      

2. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jun 16, 2002 02:05am | #2

   Hi Dave,

   Trade in our part of the world (Aust) swear by either Hitachi or Makita - have just bought a Makita model LS1212 for our shop - works beautifully, BUT it is out of alignment on square cuts by approx 1/2 degree - can probably readjust fences, just haven't had the time to do so yet.

   Regards,

   Eddie

1. 
   uncommontree | Jun 16, 2002 05:13am | #4

   Eddie

   Hows the weather down under.Would love to come down there sometime,been just about everywhere else but there.Question for you ...On your LS1212 do you see any oil leaking from the underside of your saw just behind the blade were the shaft enters the gear box.Mine has this and I returned one for a new one and it did it also was wondering if it was my luck or do they all do this a bit when new.Other than this it is a wonderful saw I don't want to run it down because of this It may be part of its break in .Take care enjoy the day Rick  ADESIGNS

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jun 16, 2002 09:27am | #6

   Hi Rick,

   Thanks for the warning on the saw - it's 3 weeks old now and gets probably 1 -- 2 hours hard use per day.  I'll check for oil leaks and let you know.

   Weather's good - mid winter and sunny day, minimum of 40F, maximum of 70F.  Have approx 20 light frosts per year (coastal NSW climate). I grew up inland, where temps are a little closer to yours - minimum of 12F, maximum of 35F on a bad winter's day.  You can have your mid-west winters - have friends in Wisconsin that let me know what it's like!

   As you hinted, the LS1212 is a 12 inch sliding compound mitre saw - great depth of cut (3 3/4" deep x 12" wide).  We can't fault it either.

   Regards,

   Eddie

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 16, 2002 07:09pm | #7

   Eddie, if it's winter and 70F high, what're the summers like?!?  :-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jun 16, 2002 11:09pm | #9

   Hi Forest_girl,

   Xmas day is usually 96-100F, really hot days are 104 - 108F.

   Miserable winter's days are maximum of 50F

   Cheers,

   Eddie

2. 
   forestgirl | Jun 17, 2002 05:48am | #13

   Hmmmmm, sounds like a mirror image of Sacramento valley.  Too hot for moi!  I envy you your winters though :-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   uncommontree | Jun 17, 2002 04:48am | #11

   Hi Eddie..................

   It sounds like you winters are pretty good compared to southwestern Wisconsin.With the exception of friends and family I can think of nothing more than getting the hell out of here,There the pits,I lived in Hawaii for 6 years while in the service and that was as close to heaven as you can get.I really love the water the waves the sound the smell ....................well almost everything about it .There is some thing about the open water that is good for the soul.OK on to the question I was going to ask every one what about blade stabilizers you can use them on SCMS or CMS so why not ,could it be the depth of cut will be reduced?So does anyone use them how do they work will it reduce blade vibration enough to make them worth while.I have blade stabilizers on my old delta Milwaukee 10" table saw and they really work fine.My new Woodworkers Supply cat. has them for 5/8 1" and 1-1/4  for 15.99 this seems to me as being pretty inexpensive problem solving.

                Take care Rick   ADESIGNS

2. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jun 17, 2002 03:59pm | #14

   Hi Rick,

   Thanks for the advice.

   Gearbox on our saw is fine, but small oil buildup on compound slide, greasy sawdust sticking to slide arm.  Will keep an eye on it - could just be overoiling from assembly.

   Cheers,

   Eddie

3. 
   uncommontree | Jun 16, 2002 04:59am | #3

   Hi Dave

   I have the Makita LS1013SCMS.this is a honey of a saw.My crew all likes to get different tools so we have in miter saws 2-Milwaukees 1-Porter-Cable 1-Dewalt 1-Master Mechanic and my LS1013 Makita,this is the one every one seems to be using most of the time.I like the LS1212 allso but chose the cheaper of the two.I have allso heard really good things about the Bosch CMS..............Good Luck       Rick  ADESIGNS.

4. 
   MPHarper | Jun 16, 2002 08:05am | #5

   Dave,

   I have the Ridgid 12" compound miter saw and I love it.  I've had it for over a year and worked it very hard.  It is perfectly aligned, great power, and comes with a table to put it on.  Oh, and the kicker for me was the lifetime guarantee that comes with all Ridgid tools.  I've never had a problem and would recommend the saw to anyone.

   The on;y thing that I would reconsider if I were to do it all over again would be a sliding compound miter saw.  they are great and increase the capacity.   Just a thought.

   Enjoy the hunt and I hope you find a great saw that will serve you well for years to come.

   Matt-

5. 
   sschefer | Jun 16, 2002 07:45pm | #8

   Dave, awhile back in the old forum we went through this discussion. The gent that asked the question ended up with the Bosch I believe. Anyhow, after several months of agonizing over CMS or SCMS I finally chose the 12" Bosch CMS (they don't make a 12" slider yet and I have a RAS). I have been very impressed with it and have not had any of the problems like curved mitres, that some have reported with other saws. I've also heard of blade vibration problems with the 10" saws that don't seem to occur in the 12" models. I think the 1" arbor might have a lot to do with that but can't confirm. The blades are more expensive and if it is the only 12" saw in your shop you can't swap blades around but I'm still using the blade that came with it and have no complaints. I got mine no bid on ebay for about 325.00 I think (including shipping). I probably could have paid less but I had made up my mind to buy that day.

   Steve - in Northern California

1. 
   uncommontree | Jun 17, 2002 05:08am | #12

   Hi Steve.........

   How are things going for you.I saw your shop pics ,very nice.We have 2 12" CMS one is a Porter-Cable and it seems to be some what under powered even with a good blade,hard to describe kinda dogs through a cut acting like it wants to stall out. The other is a Dewalt this one could really use soft start it feels as if it is going to jump right off the table.Even clamping it down it feels jumpy but it has power to spare.I looked long and hard and chose the Dewalt for my fathers shop over the Bosch mainly because of availability,I have heard a lot of nice thing about the Bosch saws.Have no problems with blade vibration in the Dewalt but the P-C was bad out of the box we figured it was the factory blade and it was.

   Take care and happy cutting................... Rick   ADESIGNS

1. 
   sschefer | Jun 17, 2002 08:29pm | #17

   Hey Rick how's things. My Bosch has soft start and a brake. The brake was a little strange at first since it tends to jerk a bit but you get used to it quickly. I've never had any problem with the power, it has never bogged on me. Mine is really a heavy brute. I have to laugh at the carrying handle since its pretty much never going to get lifted that way. You would have to hold your arm out almost perpendicular to keep it from beating against your legs while you walked. The one feature I do love is the dual safety switches. You can operate the saw with either your right or left hand without having to contort yourself. 

   My dad has a Makita 10" and I used to borrow it a lot. It was a really slugger too. My friends in the trades swear by the Hitachi sliders but say they get better deals on the De Walts. I find that finish carpenters tend to go for the Hitachi's and the general construction folks like the De Walts. 

   My Bosch will probably never see a job site. I would buy something lighter for that purpose most likely a 10" Hitachi.

   Steve - in Northern California

   Edited 6/17/2002 1:30:15 PM ET by Steve Schefer

   Edited 6/17/2002 1:31:00 PM ET by Steve Schefer

1. 
   Elcoholic | Jun 17, 2002 11:31pm | #18

   Just chiming in for the Makita LS1212, great saw.  The price of the acc'y horizontal work clamp pissed-me-off, but I bought it anyway.  I hook mine up to my Fein vac and it gets maybe 2/3's of the sawdust.  Anybody have any designs to improve the DC short of backing the saw into a big box?  John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

1. 
   sschefer | Jun 17, 2002 11:43pm | #19

   Jack, I just hang a cardboard box with a 4" hole for the DC in it, behind the saw and leave the bag on it. What the bag doesnt get goes into the box. What the vac doesn't get I just dump. I use the same box for my RAS. No, it is not a work of beauty but it is functional and only takes about 5 minutes to make.Steve - in Northern California

2. 
   uncommontree | Jun 18, 2002 02:09am | #20

   John.......

   I agree with you on the work clamp, with the price of the saw they should give you the damn thing.I haven't bought it yet, still pissin and moanin I guess but I will get around to it .I have the LS1013 its a very nice saw. I have it mounted to a Delta universal saw stand,Its a heavy brute but very stable.I also have a Fien vac that I use with my random orbital sanders and belt sanders,Pretty much thrown away the dust bags and those goofy dust collection thingies on the P-C sanders ,you know the ones that fall of when they are full ....................I really do like my Fien vac .My father has recently bought one for his shop .If anyone is looking for a small quiet vac for the shop look no further.............I have yet to see a CMS or SCMS dust collection system work well. I have said all along that they need a larger exhaust port.With my 1013 I have found that it will pick up more dust if you pull the saw out and push it into the wood rather than chopping down.I have been cutting cedar siding and its really messy anyway but this action helps.................Take care Rick..........ADESIGNS

3. 
   Elcoholic | Jun 18, 2002 10:38pm | #21

   Ditto on the Fein vac.  After a lengthy process of elimination of various brooms and dust mops for our hardwood flooring (2 dogs, 1's an American Eskimo) the wife finally relented and tried my Fein Turbo II.  She liked it so much she asked for one for her birthday.  So I got her the Mini-Turbo.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

4. 
   uncommontree | Jun 19, 2002 02:12am | #22

   John .............

   I can feel your Critter pain,we have six 6 sixxx one year old tabbies,Hell with 4 feet I am here to tell ya.No normal house vac will keep up with this crew.If ain't broke tipped over or covered with hair its vertical.Cat lovers are strange people.A mini-turbo will be in the house by months end.............

                              Have a great day.............Rick.

5. 
   Elcoholic | Jun 19, 2002 09:46pm | #23

   I'm really alergic to kitties.  My Dad ususally has 2 - 4 around.  I usually load up on Benadryl, Claritin or Seldane before I go and I can last a couple of hours before the snot box goes into overdrive.  They seem to sense this and jump up on my lap.  If I pet them and rub my nose or my eyes I'm toast in 15 minutes.

   The only draw back to the mini is that it comes with the elcheapo plastic floor head and wand and doesn't include the felt bag.  Count on at least ordering the bag because the paper bags are pretty spendy (like everything else form Fein).  The acc'y kit for the Turbo II & III has a nice chrome wand and a dual height floor tool that's much better on hardfloors.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

6. 
   uncommontree | Jun 20, 2002 05:07am | #24

   John........

   Cats know more than we think (there spookie)I have the acc'y kit for my turboII ,its the only way to fly come clean up time.I use the bags also(price GULP)YAAAAAAA there pricey .I was putting a new bag in my Fathers turbo II on monday and while fitting the bag around the inlet pipe I poked my finger through the bag.Now heres a case for some proper pissin and moanin,no one was in the shop to see my ,well you know. so I started over and was much more allert.Once they tear there is no fixin them.duct tape has failed me for the first time ever.........Will the acc'y kit for the turboII work with the mini?

   I also have the Fien 3 1/4 hp plunge router ,there are no words that will describe this baby only German engineering at its best.

            Have a great day       Rick........

7. 
   Elcoholic | Jun 20, 2002 11:45pm | #25

   Yup, the acc'y sizes are the same, the only difference is that the Turbo II has a 16' hose v.s. a 10 footer for the Mini.  I hear what you're saying.  If I ever need a really big RO sander it'll be orange.  I love the Multi-master, besides sanding, nothing comes close to cutting narrow grout lines in tile.  I hate sheet-goods work, probably because edge banding sucks right up there with house painting.  The unsharpened offset scraper blade works very nicely at flush trimming wood or smellymean banding.  You just have to go with the grain like when you're planing.  With a block in one hand it'll even cut it to length after it's been ironed on.

   PS:  Ditto on German Engineering/Manufacturing.  I just traded the wife's P.O.S. '98 Dodge Durango in on a Passat GLX and we're both so happy.  Another nice combo is Swiss Engineering and German Manufacturing as in a Sig/Sauer 45.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

8. 
   uncommontree | Jun 21, 2002 02:05am | #26

   John.......

   Is the Multi-Master a piece of work or what.I can't get over how little vibration there is and yet there is power to spare.The 6" and 8" RO sanders are cool but $$$$$$$$.I have a 6" P-C RO and I am not sure I like it, it seems a little hard to control wants to dance around with fresh paper, it does have VS but even slower speeds dont seem to help.AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Farfinuggen.I can not tell you what the AUDI TT does for me that is one cool car.Need to sell a lot of paintings and furnature to see one of those in the driveway.ENJOY........Rick.....

9. 
   Elcoholic | Jun 21, 2002 11:44pm | #27

   Ditto on the TT, especially the blown roadster with baseball glove interior.  Yeah I know ragtops are heavier, flex more and therefore don't post the same numbers, but at that hp/weight ratio who cares?  Re: on the Passat we all have limits.  I really wanted the 270 hp W8 but at $47k, $5k of which was dealer gouge, opps I meant to say opportunity cost, it was way out of my league.  I settled nicely for the 190 hp V6 FWD though.  A lot of good things have happened in the last 14 years automotively speaking.  In '88  I bought a Legend L sedan and at 160 hp it was at or close to the top of the heap for $27k.  It was a great car for 10 years.  But I just got a WHOLE LOT MORE car for only $4k more and that $4k is worth a lot less than it was in '88.  I like the trend.  Too bad the domestics are still missing the boat.  The Impala SS was a real glimmer of hope, but sadly has gone into the big sleep.  Now we get Neons disguised as '37 Plymouths. 

   I'm not braggin' (really) I just can't believe what the GLX comes with:  leather seats, both fronts ones are electric, the driver's has 3 memories that work off the keyless entry and include the mirrors, with even a special position for the right side mirror in reverse, auto A/C, 2 way sunroof, power door and window lock, roll 'em all down or up from outside with the key, front and side airbags, ABS, 3 headrests and shoulder belts in the back, split folding rear seats, back window sun sheild, a 12V outlet in the trunk, 3 channel homelink built in to the visor, a CD/Cassette Monsoon sound system with an external amp in the trunk, ... and that's just the bells and whistles.  Then you get to that 190 hp V6 that revs to 7 grand or so bolted to a Tip-tronic and I'm thankin' Jesus that I live in SoCal a 1/2 hour from the mountains.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

10. 
    uncommontree | Jun 23, 2002 06:08am | #29

    Hi John.........

    AHHHHHHHHHHHHH YES The W8 very nice,they really do make some sweet cars,one of my co-workers buys nothing but German cars, Chevy trucks German cars.He allso collects Corvetts,Hes a wild man.I do like the S/S 45 allso ,used one for about 4 years in the service, there life savers..........Can you get other Fien tools in your area seems all we get around here are the Vacs,Routers.and Multimasters and I have them all.My DeWalt sawsall is getting ready to bite the big one and I was looking at Fien's sawsall but there noware to be found,any tool catalogs out there that handle more of there stuff?           Gotta Crash Be good  Rick..........

11. 
    Elcoholic | Jun 24, 2002 06:03pm | #30

    Try Mike's Tools.  He's a local (SoCal) 'David' among Goliath's.  I think he can get pretty much anything they make from Fein.  Tell him I sent you.  He's very much about customer service.  He just fixed my buddies Delta HCM which I broke using assorted cheaters.  Broke the rack gear, deformed the pinon key and blew the strut.  He ordered all the parts and installed them for $20 plus parts :)  http://www.mikestools.com/John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

    Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

12. 
    uncommontree | Jun 25, 2002 05:39am | #31

    Thanks John..............

    I contacted Mike the Tool God This afternoon and he thinks that he can help me on my quest.My only hope is the price is not sky high for tools that are not requested much.Thanks much for the tip.         Rick..........

13. 
    dhpascoe | Jun 22, 2002 09:56pm | #28

    Cool. I got a Siamese that isn't afraid of the noise shop tools make and loves to hang around and dare me to turn something on while she's standing on the blade. I'd like to trade her in on a cat that has a righteous sense of fear. . . . .

6. 
   tbhs1964 | Jun 17, 2002 12:29am | #10

   dw7o5s. its great.

7. 
   GT602 | Jun 17, 2002 04:31pm | #15

   Dave, I have two Makitas..LS1011 old and the LS1212 new this winter. The LS1011 is cheap and accurate and I've used it for 6 years. The table wore and I fixed it with a 25 cent nylon washer when it began to stick from being swung from compound cuts over time. Otherwise a very worthwhile purchase. I bought the bigger 12 because the depth of cut,dual swing on the compound and inportantly the table side extensions are larger than the LS1013 that only has a very small area for resting the work. I have it on older 8 foot Trac Rac stand. My new 1212's fence was out about 1/128th along the full length of cut for a 90 degree. I discovered this when doing some tenon cutting on a wide board for a cabinet just after purchase. It's a small error and on trim I hadn't noticed. The depth of cut, dado feature and holddowns are very good. The stick is the right fence add on is about $70. I got mine for $65 from ToolsonSale MO. The LS1212 is more than the other 12" saws but my first Makita sold me on them. If I had to buy over I definitely wood.

8. 
   dollarb2 | Jun 17, 2002 05:41pm | #16

   Dave,

   I don't think you can go wrong with Makita or Hitachi.

   $ Bill