Replies

1. 
   DennisS | Feb 05, 2003 07:58pm | #1

   The more you spend the more you get in terms of modeling (3D) capabilities and rendering/imaging options for the final product. For simple two dimensional drafting, there are numerous products in the 2-$300 range I suspect. For more complex 3D work they range up into the thousands, as I'm sure you've discovered. "Design" is a subjective term - no computer program on the market will do design - that's where the user comes in using his/her talents and vision. The more powerful/flexible systems allow correspondingly greater flexibility in their use as a design *tool* not unlike the more sophisticated, and in general more expensive tools used in woodworking to create the finished article.

   Accompanying the feature/power ramp is the learning curve. While some of the so-called high end drafting/modeling packages claim to be easy to use, figure on spending several months to get comfortable using them. The simpler (read less expensive) programs are, generally speaking, easier to learn and in some ways provide features not found on more expensive products.

   A friend of mine modeled his entire house in something called (I think) chief architect on his Macintosh. He got it done in about a week as I recall. Chief Architect, if that's what it was, isn't terribly expensive. I use AutoCAD and the same job would have taken me perhaps half again as long - and I do this stuff for a living!

   The trade-off is, with AutoCAD I have much, much more flexibility in terms of creating shapes, forms and whatnot from scratch. Many of the less expensive programs limit you to pre-defined 'primitives' from which you build more complex assemblies.

   Even after close to 25 years of CAD drafting, detailing and modeling, I'd suggest that if all you're interested in is simple, limited two dimensional drawings, stay with had drawing. I still sketch things out by hand and do it far faster than if I had to fire up the computer, start the program, do the drawing then plot/print out a hard copy. On the other hand, if you routinely need to prepare complex design drawings for use in communicating your concepts to others, jump into the most feature laden program you can afford and spend the time to leverage as much of its power as you can.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

2. 
   CharlieD | Feb 05, 2003 08:51pm | #2

   I'm a total amateur, but I design using a program called Cavas on my Mac. There's a PC version too, of course.

   What I like about Canvas is that if you're creative, you can use ovals to draw any curve you need, combine circles ovals, etc by touching tangents to design any combination of curves (sort of like using a french curve) and connect all of your curves by touching straight lines to their tangents. Then, Canvas can print the design at 100%,using mutiple sheets of course, and you have a pattern for bandsawing out your parts, if that's needed. I've design guitars with Canvas that came ot quite well, really. And I personally find it much faster than designing by hand, now that I've gottent he hang of it, unless I'm just sketching out ideas. Canvas has no 3D capabilites at all, though.

   Canvas is sold by Deneba software, http://www.deneba.com, and it'll do MUCH more than just draw and print. So that's MY solution...

   Charlie

3. 
   RoyinMD | Feb 05, 2003 09:07pm | #3

   My first post or reply. I'll see if I can get my act together and become a regular.

   Like Dennis I've been using AutoCAD for about 16 years and drawing board before that. Its the number one computer program in the world for CAD drafting/design. Very pricey and much more than you need. You may want to check out AutoCAD Lite or LT I forget what its currently being called. The web site is http://www.autodesk.com but Best Buy is more fun. Autodesk will refer you to local dealers. Even in all these years I have stuck to 2D drafting, no need for 3D at work, I've tinkered with it but never learned.

   I've only used AutoCAD once for a woodworking project, to help me compute a 6 or 8 sided frame, straight on the outside and round on the inside. I never would have thought the wood would have needed to be that wide. That idea still has not been built. I have CADed my house and detached garage (woodshop NO Cars) for space planning reasons. It gives a nice perspective.

   For woodworking projects I sketch, dimension and take notes on paper. Coffee stains help too.

   Enjoy, Roy

4. 
   HONewbie | Feb 05, 2003 09:56pm | #4

   If you're an amateur (not making stuff for profit) you can get some killer deals on top-of-the-line CAD packages.  I'm personally a big fan of Pro/Engineer.  If you tell them that you're either a student or buying the stuff for personal use only, you can get their entire package (including finite element tools as well as dynamic modelers) for under $200.  The normal price would buy you a car.  Way more than you need?  Probably.  A little harder to learn?  Maybe.  But on a price/performance basis you're off the charts.

   Take a look around on the web, I'm willing to bet that most of the major CAD programs have similar offers.

   Bart

5. 
   ownersrep | Feb 06, 2003 02:58am | #5

   Another vote for AotoCad LT (lite).  Less than 1/10 of the full AutoCad $ and will probably all you ever need.  Like others have said the software can be the least expensive part - the learning curve on any that I've seen - is the expensive part.  At least w/ AutoCad LT most of what you learned can be applied to the full AutoCad if you ever feel the need to upgrade.  The LT version also allows you to open and work with others regular autocad drawings (just without all the bells and whistles).

   IMMO,

   Jim

6. 
   LarryPile | Feb 06, 2003 05:34am | #6

   I use a program I purchased from Bridge City Toolworks called DrawingBoard Lite..an excellent 2-D program that costs $50. It no longer appears on their website..call 'em and ask them if they still sell it.  If not, e-mail me....

   It's easy to use and fits the bill.  Look in the Gallery under "Mission-Style Picture Frames" or under "Mission-Style Dresser".  Both were built by me after having drawn them out in this program.

   Good luck.

7. 
   jc21 | Feb 06, 2003 06:02am | #7

   IntelliCAD. Good (.dwg) file compatibility with AutoCAD ........... Free trial versions are available for download. Here's a link to review of low cost CAD systems from Cadalyst magazine.    http://www.cadalyst.com/reviews/software/cad/0103budgetcad/index.htm

8. 
   todd | Feb 06, 2003 07:47am | #8

   Thanks for your inputs.  I might download the trial version of IntelliCAD prior to my next project. Funny how after all my planning, I still change things at the last minute, still make errors, forget the standoff from the wall, forget the last-minute adjustments! It's still a great way to unwind.

   Todd 

1. 
   DennisS | Feb 06, 2003 08:01am | #10

   Patmos ....

   I should have mentioned Acad LT (for Lap Top, not for "lite" as most people refer to it) and Intellicad.

   Intellicad is proberly the most AutoCAD compatible program available other than LT itself, the latter being published by Autodesk, the same people that publish AutoCAD "heavy" (grin). Intellicad is all but free for the downloading - you get a total of 1000 uses before the program 'times out'. It's far more "robust" than AutoCAD itself; I've actually salvaged damaged drawings by loading them into IntelliCAD, saving them in the native .dwg AutoCAD format such that they were once again loadable in AutoCAD.

   Pro-Engineer (Pro-E)? My heavens!!! (grin). Never used the program but I have Autodesk's Inventor, a Pro-E wannabe, that I've used for some mechanical design problems and I can't imagine needing anything like what these high-end appliacations are capable of for woodworking design projects. They're mostly intended for part relationships and functionality studies of machine design types of problems.

   One reason why I'd recommend using IntelliCAD is that I'm not an Autodesk devotee. I consider their marketing program analagous to Microsoft in the CAD software industry - stomp the competition at all costs and screw the end user. But that's another totally non-woodworking issue - let's not get carried away with politics (grin).

   Download IntelliCAD and if you have any questions getting started, please feel free to email me - perhaps I can help. Unless there's a consensus in this forum to open a discussion on CAD use, we should probably take it to email.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

9. 
   Telemike | Feb 06, 2003 07:54am | #9

   I just ordered TurboCAD 7.1 for XP off of an EBay auction for $23 (with shipping).  8.0 is out now and folks are unloading earlier versions for cheap.  The program was recommended by a Knots user so I checked it out.  From the firm's website and reviews, it looks good to me.

   My neighbor uses an old version of AutoSketch.  He produces very good drawings, but no 3D at all.

   Later this week, I'll let you know what TurboCAD looks like.  I'm waiting for it to come in any day (and my drawer slides too).  Projects, projects.  That blasted work gets in the way!