Hey all,
I’m seriously thinking about a concrete countertop in a kitchen remodel . I have never attempted one and wanted to know your thoughts on them and anyplace to get some info. i just purchaced the book by fu- tung cheng (sp ?) and it looks pretty good.
thanks
busyman
Replies
Busyman
Go over to Breaktime, do a search, there are numerous threads on the subject.
I cant think of the book that is considered the bible on the subject but I think its put out by Taunton and its mentioned in most of those threads that I refered to.
Doug
ALSO, go over to cooks talk, I know that there are a few DIY'ers there that have done their own and have posted pics of them and would be more than willing to share their experiences.
I've done several. Cheng's book is as good a guide as one needs. My own methodology is something of a composite of what I think best and what he presents. You can follow his book to the letter and get a great product.
He also has a website that sells dyes and other supplies. I think they are overpriced, but only if you don't mind doing some research. There are a lot of suppliers of the diamond grinding discs. Shop around and buy what you can afford. Inexpensive one will be fine for one project.
It's not cheap to equip oneself for doing this. The diamond pads and suitable grinder are at the top of the list.
Color selection can be difficult. You must make sample casts to tweak the dye amounts to your liking. This is not like mixing paint. Take lots of notes and weigh your ingredients carefully. I use a 4# postage scale when doing small samples so that I can be sure of the amounts going into the sample. A typical sample will take at least a week to produce.
When making your molds, should you choose to cast the top upside down, it is helpful to draw the top in a cad program then print a flipped image so it is shown in reverse. You then use this plan to make the mold.
I'm attaching an image from one of mine.
I put concrete countertops in almost half of the kitchens I install. To clarify I don't make them, or install them; but I did read the book and the guy I use has his shop next door to mine. So I have helped him a few times. Concrete countertops are just like any other trade, If you are making one for yourself you will spend more money on the new tools (most of which are specialty) and time figureing it out than it is worth. The going rate for the countertops made and installed in Dallas, TX is $55 a sqft. However If you are set on doing it check out Granite City Tools. They are online and have great prices and service. I strongly recomend a water fed grinder the Alpha AWP-158 is a great tool for the money and you can resale it for over 70% its new price on EBAY. Get the better disks and stick with 4" or 5" because, it is easier to not gouge the surface. I can give you some more tips that the books don't mention if are serious about doing this.
Mike
hey busyman-
I made all my own concrete countertops. It took quite a while to get them all done but it was well worth the effort. I used cheng's Percentage of ag, sand, and cement. If i were to do it again i would look at using white cement instead of the standard type II. I used a lot of items from http://leitchco.com/. I also bought a water feed grinder that is made by makita. I think the entire project cost me approximately $2,000 with tools and all. 120 square feet of counter. The only major advice that i can give is make sure that your lay-up and pouring tables are completely level and you vibrate the mix heavily. My final product was a lot better when i vibrated heavily when the product was in the form. Hopefully you have a contractor freind who does some concrete work so you can get a vibrator without breaking the bank. Also whatever sealer you use, I had better luck spraying the sealer on the product. I have included a pic of the kitchen.
My response will be similar to the others here. I did my bathroom with cast concrete. I did vanity tops, a tub surround, doorjambs on the shower, a seat and corner shelves. I couldn't be more pleases with the whole process. From design, to fabrication, to polishing to install. I read Cheng's book, which is considered the bible, trolled forums as you are doing. And went for it. Used his formulas to play it safe for my first try. I agree with those who say be real careful measuring. Weight not volume. Granite City for supplies. As far as I'm concerned, the cost of the tools was insignificant compared with what I would have spent on Granite, or to have a contractor do them for me. Up here, the cost of polished concrete approaches the cost of inexpensive granite, $75 sqft. Go for it and have fun. I'm going to do my kitchen as well, and maybe hire out to do a few small jobs to defray the cost of the tools.
Bathroom pics here: http://neilpuck.photosite.com/Garage/Bathroom/
OK, I'm going to look like an idiot here. What's wrong with the technique that I saw on the show 'Rock Solid", on the DIY channel? All they did was make a form out of melamine and pour in the concrete and when it was dry, take the form apart.
And I could put some 2x4's up with some plywood and call it a house. It's all in the details. Every advanced task has intricacies that guarantee success. DIY shows are designed to show you a Cliff's Notes version of everything. While the basic outline is as you describe, there are things such as building a substrcture to the forming table to keep the form flat. Additives to the concrete mixture to ensure strength and resist cracking. Curing times, polishing tips. Best practices.
And the only idiot is the one who doesn't ask the question.
There is nothing wrong with that method. In fact, that is exactly what I've done.... with some enhancements. Melamine is good inexpensive form material. A simple rectangular top can be formed in less than an hour. Place some concrete within and presto.... you have a concrete top ready to install. But, you will undoubtedly have at least pin-holes on the surface where there were air bubbles. And, most people want the surface to be ground and polished to expose the aggregate. The simple pour and place job will result in a pure cement look which isn't bad looking at all, it's just what it is. The first tops I did were just that. I filled the pin-holes with a cement paste and wiped it clean. The concrete surface looked like a very smooth concrete sidewalk. Also, nowadays, people like to add some color the the mix.
Let's say for the sake of discussion the I went with that technique and I wasn't happy with the way it looked. Could I then add a thin layer of cement or epoxy or whatever to dress up the surface? But then I'm looking for a crude rustic look.
The simple answer is no. In order to get a thin layer of concrete to stick you need to add so much additive that it dosent accept stain well. But I guess the thing about concrete is that it is what it is. It is hard to say that a job dosen't look good.
A big issue, and the one that can kill a job is warping. All counter tops warp, but if it gets out of control the job will be ruined.
Mike
Discussion aside, my major rule when doing jobs like this in concrete is to do samples. I want to know exactly what the result will be and so do my clients. If you get the sample wired in, then there should be no surprises. But back to your question..... yes, there are concrete products that will stick to already cured concrete. Will they give you an acceptable look? I certainly don't know because I can't begin to guess what look may appeal to you. To go this route, I think one would have to do......... you guessed it..........samples.
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