Condensation on my Table Saw & Jointer
saschafer
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
BoeShield and TopCote are two products recommended for keeping rust at bay. I use TopCote myself. (I have a can of BoeShield, too, but I just haven’t gotten around to trying it.)
Other people recommend using paste wax or rubbing the iron with a block of paraffin, but given the convenience of the two spray-on/wipe-off products, it hardly seems worth the effort.
-Steve
Replies
What Steve said.
The propane heater is adding a lot of moisture to the air. I had the same problem before I got a vented, thermostatically controlled natural gas heater. I used Topcote also. It works quite well. In fact I still use it as it makes feeding the wood through the machines about ten times easier. MDF seems to glide right through the table saw, as if you could give it a good push and walk around to the other side and catch it. :^)
Rob
I have, in fact, had stuff go sliding off the jointer table into oblivion....
-Steve
Yeah, the venting makes a lot of sense and I expect a lot safer. Thanks for the heads up
There is one other thing you could do to rid yourself of the added moisture, in place of venting, is to use a dehumidifier while the room is warm. No use trying a dehumidifier when the room has cooled back down though because it will just freeze up. I think you would be much better off venting the heater. That way you get rid of the added moisture before it even gets into the room. It might even get too dry, as far as the wood is concerned.
Paul (Tink)
Edited 12/8/2007 11:52 pm ET by Tinkerer3
Thanks, I ordered some Top-cote from Highland Woodworking. I'll let you know how it works.
You better invest in a can of BoeShield. I've used it successfully for quite along time. I use it on all machined surfaces. Over time, if you aren't using the machine, there will be a lint/dust buildup but it wipes away easily. Published articles will show you how good it is, but I would use nothing else. It works very well.
Propane puts a tremendous amount of moisture into the air. You need to find another way to heat this. Wood heat may not be practical for you, but it's very dry.
I have NG in my shop and keep a dehumidifier running year-round. The latter is drained to the outside.
The propane, natural gas, and wood all put out approximately the same amount of water in the air for each heat unit produced. The difference is that the NG and the Wood are generally vented to the outside whereas the propane is sometimes not when used in portable heaters. In my book, all burning of hydrocarbons should be vented to the outside or better yet, completely separated from inside air. Once heat is introduced into an inclosure the relative humidity goes way down. If you are maintaining an inside temperature of thirty degree higher than outside, I think you are wasting energy trying to use a dehumidifier. When it gets very cold it may pay to humidify the inside air so it doesn't get too dry.
I have the same problem even though I live way south and I think I may have found a solution. I will let you know if it works nut here is what I have found.
I found a waterproof warming pad at Parks Seed's webiste. It is used under flats of soil to keep the dirt warm when starting seeds and comes in various sizes. (BTW, I do not work for Parks).
I have been looking for something like this that is waterproof. Even considered throwing a electric blanket over my saw.
Will advise if it works.
the initial costs of this would be high...but you would save in the end.... you could get a solar water heating system for the roof of your shop that runs to a raditor in the shop... or have a geothermal heat pump intalled... those things are barebones cheap to run....again, high initial costs though... but neither should add any moisture to the air
In a magazine test a couple of years ago, Boeshield T9 was the only product that protected cast iron from rusting. All the others, including waxing only provided minimal or no protection at all.
You have correctly deduced the reason for the rusting. Putting heat into the air will warm the air much faster than the heavy mass of your tool tops. As the air warms, a little atmosphere is created just above the cold metal and moisture leaves the air and produces condensation on the tools. It's like your beer in warm weather. The can sweats and so does your tools.
One thing that seems to work also is to cover the tools with an old wool blanket or one of the microfiber blankets. These will move the moisture away from the tool top and go a long way toward keeping rust at bay. That and the Boeshield should do the job for you.
Howard is right about using blankets but I'm not sure they move the moisture away, they keep the warm, moist air from coming into contact with the cold top immediately. Heating the shop gradually warms the cast iron and when the blanket is removed, the top is warm enough that there's less condensation. I used Top-Cote and it worked well but I was using so much of it and watching the overspray going all over the place that I decided to switch to paste wax. I found that it protected at least as well, but I give it a few coats, just like I did with Top-Cote. I think anything that keeps the water from coming into direct contact with the iron will help. I bought some moving blankets from Harbor Freight and put those on the cast iron surfaces, which has eliminated the problem of rust forming after the propane heater fires up.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I would highly recommend HTC machine covers. Canvas and plastic do not work, towels and blankets are OK.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Thankls to all of you that have answered me on my rust caused by condensation in my part-time unheated shop. So far the Boesfield Top-Cote is doing an excellent job. I also used the Boesfield Rust remover to clean the iron tops.
You'll only get condensation if air containing moisture hits something below dew point. So warm air from the house may be getting to it. You'll also get a gob of moisture from an unvented propane heater.
Thanks TerryB. The propane heater is not good so I am going to install a ceiling mounted vented space heater. Northern Tool has one for about $359 and it's big enough to heat a two-car garage. However, I have used Boeshield Top-Cote on the iron saw and jointer tops and it works like a charm even with the moisture-laden air.
Which heater are you looking at? I got this one last year and I love it.http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200307959_200307959 It is a little more than the one you are looking at, and installation might be more involved. But if you buy the exhaust and piping and thermostat at the borg and install it yourself you can get going for well under $600. I also like that this model has powered exhaust so you can vent it out the sidewall instead of cutting a hole in your roof.
If you are looking at the radiant heat type I would think about the advantages of forced air instead. I keep the garage at 45 to 50 degrees and can warm it up to t-shirt working conditions in no time on even the coldest of days.
Rob
Dear Rob A.
Yes, that is the exact heater I am going to use, except that it is the propane model - we have no natural gas up here. Since I already have a roof top set up for the wood stove chimney, venting will be a snap. By the way, a wood stove would be good, cheap heating, but does it ever take up floor space! I don't know about you, I love my tools on wheels and a wood stove would preclude that.
Cool. You will love it. Get some help mounting it on the ceiling though. I balanced mine on top of a step ladder, blocked up close to the ceiling and tried to drive lag bolts into the collar ties by myself. NO FUN AT ALL! :^)
Rob
Slotty,
You might want to check the specs on the venting requirements of the new heater you're going to install against the size and shape of your current wood stove chimney. They might not match up well.
In the best case scenario, the wood stove flue would be oversized and you could just drop a stainless steel vent pipe of the proper size down it in order to properly vent the propane heater. Worst case would be that the wood stove flue would be too small for the vent...
Zolton* Some people say I have a problem because I drink hydraulic brake fluid. But I can stop any time I want.
Good point Zolton. The only thing you got wrong was that the best case would be if everything matched up perfectly. What do you think the odds of that are?:^) I would bet it is big enough though.
Rob
Thanks for the tip, but I planned for a stainless steel stove stack and can easily convert the 8" diameter penetration to a gas furnace vent.
I am 64 years old. I should be 65 but I was sick for a year. Merry Xmas.
Forgot to ask if you had an unvented dryer in the garage. That'll be murder on iron.
Get a fleece throw from Walmart etc., (you just want one or two of the ten dollar fleece throws, for each machine), and a couple of drop lights. The fleece throws are hydrophobic, (don't absorb water) and good insulators. The incandescent lights are a good heat source.
Put the drop lights inside the machine or right next to your jointer, (shop lights with magnetic pads don't cost too much), and put a couple of the fleece throws on top. The heat from the light bulb, coupled with the insulation from the fleece will keep the cast iron warm. Just be sure the light bulb isn't in contact with anything combustible.
I don't own one of these, only seen them, but the principle of it, at least, seems like a solve for what you're talking about.
Kind of interested if anyone has tried it, and if they perform as well as advertised.
http://www.festooljunkie.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/77_191/tool-clad/
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
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