Replies

1. 
   RickL | Mar 20, 2006 03:49pm | #1

   Taditional hide glue should fit the bill.

   There's also FSV glue...which is really designed for a paper backed veneer. There's other options on the site.

   http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/glues.htm

   Hide glue should not be considered an option unless the veneer is backed with a liner.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/20/2006 10:19 am ET by RickL

1. 
   mike4244 | Apr 07, 2006 12:25am | #11

   Joe, why do you say hide glue is not an option unless the veneer has a backing?I have used hot hide glue with veneers that I have sawn, I usually apply the glue then iron it on. So far I haven't had a problem. The veneering I have done is limited to smaller projects,usually less than two square feet.

   mike

1. 
   SgianDubh | Apr 10, 2006 02:11am | #15

   Mike, I too find Ricks' exhortation to avoid using hide glue with single pieces of veneer somewhat unusual. This glue has been used for just this purpose for a few centuries. 

   I'm pretty nifty at doing this kind of traditional veneering with either cauls or a veneer hammer and therefore, unfortunately, I suspect Rick simply made an error and typed something he didn't mean to say. Slainte.

   Richard Jones Furniture

   Edited 4/9/2006 7:15 pm by SgianDubh

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Mar 20, 2006 08:37pm | #2

   I believe that waterbased contact cement would not react with lacquer.

   Is the reason for the query that the substrate has a lacquer finish?

   Few adhesives bond well to a finished surface.  I would be careful with most woodworking adhesives.

   Howie.........
1. 
   katy | Mar 20, 2006 09:41pm | #3

   The substrate is unfinished MDF. The reason I am looking for a dry bond adhesive, is that I will be veneering a box approximately 15"X15"X15" that has already been assembled. This means I can't put it in my vacuum bag to get even, prolonged clamping pressure.

   Thanks for all the help so far!

    

   -Katy

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Mar 22, 2006 05:38pm | #4

   I guess I don't understand.  Where does the "lacquer" come in?

   Here's what I would recommend you do.  Contact Constantines in Florida.  They are veneering experts and will be happy to talk to you and give you some advice on the appropriate adhesive to use.

   Go here for their phone number:

   http://www.constantines.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=4Howie.........

1. 
   katy | Mar 22, 2006 05:59pm | #5

   Hi Howard,

   Thanks for the response. As far as what lacquer has to do with it: As I've always been told, if you adhere something with contact cement and then finish it with lacquer, the lacquer has a chemical reaction that causes the contact cement bond to eventually fail. This may be less true with paper backed veneer since the paper would act as a barrier, but the veneer I'm using is not backed.

   Thanks Again,

   Katy

1. 
   Adrian | Mar 22, 2006 06:45pm | #6

   I'm not sure why you don't want to use a regular adhesive, like PVA or urea formaldehyde.....with a raw MDF box that's only 15 x 15, I wouldn't hesitate to make a couple of melamine cauls, and just use clamps, doing two opposite sides at a time. You could add a couple of wood bars that have been planed away a little at the ends if you are worried about getting pressure into the middle.

   Vacuum bags are great, but they aren't the only way to get the job done. You're right not to use contact cement though; sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.

2. 
   highfigh | Apr 08, 2006 06:48am | #14

   Putting water based adhesives on thin veneer makes it curl up and it can get really wavey. Total PITA. Epoxy would work, as would polyurethane glue, if you can find one that's not dark. There are some other veneering threads here and some have links to companies dealing in veneering supplies of all kinds.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

3. 
   Fotze | Apr 08, 2006 03:56am | #13

   Absolutely true

   I use lacquer thinner to clean up contact cement, or if I make a mistake with a formica layup I use lacquer to pull the formica off.

2. 
   cadiddlehopper | Apr 06, 2006 06:31pm | #8

   Whatever you do, don't use water-based contact cement on veneer. It swells it. When it dries out, the veneer shrinks and splits. That glue was first available when I did my first veneer job. I was not aware of its existence, got it by accident. Results were disastrous. The water-based cement will probably ruin MDF also.I have some 40-year old veneered pieces that show wear & tear, but the glue bond is secure. The glue is regular contact cement. I have finished it with linseed oil and polyurethane varnish with no debonding. Is lacquer finish the only one you can use? If so, why not make a test article to test application of lacquer? The suggestion of several light coats makes sense, too, spaced out well timewise.If you absolutely must lacquer the piece, there is also hammer veneering. I have never done it. It would require that I purchase more equipment. I have read that it can be done with liquid hide glue. If you buy that stuff, be absolutely certain to check the expiration date. LOL!Cadiddlehopper

1. 
   gastonbob | Apr 06, 2006 07:04pm | #9

   I had one bad experience with a water based contact cement and the finish. It was a paper backed maple that I tried to finish with a water based finish and the cement failed when the finish soaked through. I generally really flood the surface with the first coat and then sand the surface smooth then apply several more coats. The cement failed in quarter size bubbles and it was a real hassle to fix it...Good Luck

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Apr 06, 2006 09:13pm | #10

   I never got as far as applying a finish to the water-based glue-up of veneer which was not paper backed. After that, I was very careful to buy the original stuff with the toxic fumes which I applied outdoors. Lately, I have built a press in which I use PVA to fasten veneer.Cadiddlehopper

3. 
   mudman | Apr 01, 2006 10:43pm | #7

   You can always seal the veneer with shellac before you spray the lacquer. The shellac will be invisible when you are done. Personally I would just spray a couple of very light coats of lacquer first then follow up with heavier coats. The light coats will not penetrate the veneer at all. The stuff I use dries so fast that I can touch the surface 30 seconds after I spray it.

   Mike

4. 
   DonStephan | Apr 07, 2006 05:20am | #12

   By its nature, contact cement remains a flexible adhesive and not something I would use for a material that is not rigid and uniform throughout, like Formica and Wilsonart laminates. Without question, some people have been satisfied with contact cement under veneer, but there are many instances where it has failed. One a witnessed was probably paper backed veneer adhered with contact cement to the side and back of a custom kitchen cabinet. The cabinet was (I was told) finished with solvent finishes and the veneer was fine for several months after installation. But then it started to pull away and bubble in several areas, perhaps due to warming sunlight.

   In my opinion, anyone and everyone is welcome to use whatever materials they wish, but you asked for input. Mine is not to use contact cement with veneer in any circumstance. If you absolutely have no other choice than iron-on PVA then make very very sure that the veneer is dry before starting. If you have to use flattening solution on the veneer, check it with a moisture meter before and after flattening to make sure all the excess moisture has been removed.

   If your box has an open bottom you can still use a vacuum press by filling the center with something like styrofoam or with an air bladder.

   If you want to use caul and clamps to press the veneer, I'd suggest two or three layers of MDF or melamine board between the veneer and clamps. Plywood is not flat enough, and a single layer is not stiff enough, again in my opinion.