Replies

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jan 17, 2003 09:28am | #1

   Contact cement? It's only use is for slapping down plastic laminate. Apart from that it's pretty much a dead loss in solid wood furniture making usage, especially in alleged veneer applications.

   Cardboard tubes and PVC? What about it? Yes, you can use it, and the appropriate adhesive-- but to glue what to the cardboard?

   Slainte.

   
   

   
   

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   Edited 1/17/2003 1:36:12 AM ET by RichardJ

1. 
   ClancysBro | Jan 19, 2003 07:26pm | #3

   Your saying contact cement has no part in woodworking at all then and it's only use is on plastic laminent. Not in veneer applications either- hmmmm, I disagree with you. No disrespect to you and I have seen photos of your good work But You are in a very specialized area of woodworking. Millwork is and always has been the backbone and starting point in this field But not the only means of making a fine woodworking project.

    Say you needed 4 pillars roughly 8ft in Ht. with a 12in diameter. Your client wants them to look like solid mahogany and really doesn't care what he can't see. Would you make these out of solid wood or to keep the price down and order cardboard tubes then veneer them? Maybe if you say no I could tell you using contact cement, a decent industrial grade, would be the far better choice then a conventional one here. You would take alot of time off the project from the jigs and drying time here just to start. Cutting and gluing the final seam and then applying contact cement the last couple inches beats swinging around a huge sheet of veneer full of wet glue where the seam will not meet very well if you have tried to pre-cut the fit. Messy.I have used contact cement on many different surfaces, as well as, solid woods with much success. Aluminum, fabrics, plastics, foam, steel, and different assorted solid woods are not out of the range of fine woodworking, but used abroad and daily. Thanks for that link eddie!

1. 
   LeeGrinding1 | Jan 19, 2003 11:29pm | #4

   Cardboard and contact cement...

   Surely you realize that you're not doing high end or high quality work here.

   Don't take it wrong, we all work to pay the bills but please don't paint cardboard and contact cement as anything other than what it is...low quality.

   I'm editing here...Any client that will accept wood veneer glued to cardboard using contact cement is not looking for a lasting product, they are looking for cheapness. There is nothing wrong with this as long as it isn't misrepresented by either you or the buyer. I know the type...they leave my shop thinking I'm terribly overpriced or trying to rip them off with my exorbitant prices.There is a market for cardboard and contact cement, it would'nt bother me except for the unfortunate fact that the quality is misrepresented. When those columns fail the poor folks caught owning those columns when they fail look at our trade and think "No, they don't build em like they used to". It is a reflection on our trade and not a pretty one.It's unfortunate but it's just the way it is.LeeLee Grindinger

   Furniture Carver

   Edited 1/19/2003 4:39:13 PM ET by LeeGrindinger

2. 
   SgianDubh | Jan 20, 2003 01:44am | #5

   protagora, I agree with you that millwork is big business—I’ve done some of that. Probably 90% of millwork is designed with a short life span— maybe 10- 15 years, and I'd say that a cardboard tube with veneer and contact cement would fall into that 90% I identified. Banks, retail outlets, most hotel foyers, etc., are usually ripped out and replaced frequently. 

   A lot of two ply and paper reinforced veneer is applied with contact cement in millwork—it behaves more like a plastic laminate than veneer. I stand by my statement that contact cement has no serious application when handling (specifically) single sheets of veneer, whether thay be commercially cut or thicker home made veneer. It dries too thick, remains rubbery, suffers from creep, doesn’t have the necessary holding power, and will often fail when attacked by polishes that use lacquer thinner as a solvent. 

   An 8’ tall cardboard tube, 12” in diameter would suffer a bit from entasis. Given such a task, bearing in mind that commercial millwork is not the market I aim for, but using single sheets of veneer I’d make up a piece about 40” wide and consider using liquid hide glue for an interior application and a custom made caul. Let the veneer overlap, allow the glue to dry, soften as needed with steam, slit the two layers with a knife, peel back and remove the overlap, and glue back down. 

   There again, I’d not be averse to getting out the hot hide glue, iron, and a veneer hammer, or even PVA, an iron and a hammer, ha, ha.

   I'd guess the cardboard would need a glue sizing treatment first using any of the approaches I'd consider. I'd need to experiment a bit to see what works best, but I don't see me ever getting asked to do such a job, so the idea of experimenting is moot. At this stage in my thinking regarding your points,  I still wouldn't consider contact cement as a first choice.  Slainte.Website

   The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh

1. 
   ClancysBro | Jan 20, 2003 04:07am | #6

   Thank you both for your great replies.

   Slainte, you know the deal. Alot of these items do hold up very well over time thow. I worked on a 40ft diameter room with a plywood and bendaboard surface. The Contact cemented mahogany veneer has Not failed and already its been 12 years- don't get me wrong you guys, I use rollers with conventional glues often but the way the market is going you need alternatives on the level.

2. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jan 17, 2003 01:57pm | #2

   Here's a link to my glue supplier of choice, local to me but unfortunately not you.

   Looking through their descriptions of what each of their glues are suitable for, you get a feel for the use of each generic 'family' of glue.  I think that this answers your question.

   Cheers,

   eddie