Replies

1. 
   donkon | Aug 08, 2002 06:10pm | #1

   Hi Majorelle,

   I have a problem with firm delivery dates so I tell the client this upfront and on the form have an estimated delivery date in seasons, such as spring or fall. If this is stated up front I have had no problems with someone calling wondering where their piece is.... If they are not willing to wait for your work perhaps you shouldn't be doing the commission.

   I break the costs down into design, manufacture, finish and deliver. I also include this statement on the bottom of the contract -

   This estimate is based on my best judgement but because of the nature of the work may need to be increased. Payment of unapproved cost adjustments over 10% will be at the discretion of the client.

   In the event the client is unable to accept delivery of the project, the deposit less a service fee will be returned upon sale of the item in question.

   Both you and the client sign, I give the carbon copy to the client.

   It is not a good idea to estimate say $1000 and come back with a bill for $2000 but most clients will meet you in the middle :)

   The client also approves a drawing before work starts, in your case if the height of the table was clearly marked you should be able to charge to make an adjustment.

   Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker

1. 
   davamoore | Aug 09, 2002 05:41pm | #2

   Don -- I just took a quick look at your website (I'm a curious sort).  Of course, my first comment is "Nice work..."

   ...but to the point of this thread, I liked the fact that you state, right up front and on your main page, your general terms (timeframes, deposits, etc.).  I'm sure that helps as you work with customers who find you via the Web:  they know what to expect, from the get-go.  I'm assuming your print materials do the same?

   DavidHmmm... the garden or the workshop today?

1. 
   donkon | Aug 09, 2002 07:22pm | #4

   Hi David,

   All of the information is on my contract and I go through it with the client before they sign. There is no doubt in either of our minds if something does go wrong. The drawing is stapled to the contract and the client initials it....

   I worked for over fifteen years without even giving most clients a receipt, they gave me a check and I gave them the work :)

   Then I had a fairly large job and had a really bad feeling about the client. After talking to a lawyer I designed a contract... The client came through but what if????

   To summarize, if everything is clear at the start there should be no problems..

   Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker

1. 
   phi | Aug 09, 2002 11:23pm | #5

   To Don,

   Yes, your web page is a good example of what I'm going for. Clear terms laid out up front with no surprises, to protect myself and my clients. 

   I'm working on a standard form right now, including things like project description, time frame and a payment type, such as an hourly rate or a bid with a payment schedule. Then including terms such as "Any changes to original design during construction are billed on a time and material basis", etc. Any suggestions as to wording of clauses or anything else I might be overlooking are welcome

   This particular client still has not returned my follow up phone call, after he hung up on me Wednesday. I left a message expressing my interest in still fixing the table, but insisted on him covering the costs of my travel (i.e. a tank of gas) I'm just hoping he isn't trying to put a stop payment on the final deposit check :(

   To 3DOG3, the client lives about 45 min. away. So I'm looking at three hours, round trip, to pick it up and redeliver. Not including the time it takes to shorten the table.

   He did approve quarter scale drawings of the design, but actual measurements were not indicated. The project was fully paid for upon delivery. It was a 50% upfront, 50% on delivery type deal.

   I just feel really strongly about charging him something at this point. Considering I didn't for time spent working on six different designs. And also three trips out there, for presenting the designs, one after revising the designs and then delivery. All in all that's 29 hours of labor I didn't include in my bid. I was willing to do that for free, because I was excited about the project and really wanted the job.

   I'm curious about other people's experiences with tough clients, and how you went about dealing with them.

    Majorelle

1. 
   donkon | Aug 10, 2002 08:57pm | #6

   Hi Majorelle,

   Couple things I do at the design stage. First of all to weed out the "just shopping" I charge $30 for an in house visit or free for in my shop consultation.

   I then charge ~$200 for a mock up and scaled drawing with measurements of the project. :)

   If I am successful in obtaining the commission I usually roll these costs into the total.

   I understand how you feel when you say you were excited about the project but you need to either get paid for your time or find a less time consuming way of doing it..... mail, e-mail, etc ??

   "Really want the job" is what has got me into trouble more than once. It means you are negotiating from a position of weakness and some clients can "smell" this and will take advantage. Don't be shy to charge for your time.....

   At this point on this specific job all I can suggest is you be polite but firm. Once you have the proper documents in place this should not happen again.

   If you would like a copy of my contract send me your e-mail to [email protected]

   Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker

2. 
   phi | Aug 15, 2002 04:07am | #7

   Thank you all for the advice. And to Don, excellent work on your website. Things have been smoothed over with the client. A misunderstanding on his part. He apologized, coomplimented my work, and offered to compensate me for my time modifying the table. All in all it's a win-win situation. Sure was sweating it for awhile. I'm also uploading a picture of the table that started it all.

   See "Oval Table Top" in the Joinery section for additional reading and general blather.

   Later,

   Majorelle

2. 
   3dog3 | Aug 09, 2002 06:59pm | #3

   Majorelle:

   You don't say what state you are in, or if you have been paid so far.  If you have already been paid for work done, you can refuse any further work until payment is made upfront.  I would also consider having the client sign a typed agreement at this point that the adjustment to the table is being made at his request and that he agreed to pay for the additional work done.

   If you have paid, then your client is guilty of theft by conversion (your state may use different terminolgy)  I would contact the client and demand payment with the advice to the client that your next contact will be with the local police department.  if you, have a witness present for all conversations.  If the conversations are on the telephone, let the client know who else is on the line.

   As to forms for future work, most stationary stores will carry standard contract forms.  Look for a form that will cover work by the hour.  Most of these forms are fill in the blank type of forms.  You then fill in the project description, estimated delivery date, rate charged and payment schedule.  Both you and the client sign the form.  You may also want to include a statement that ownership of the project does not transfer to the client until payment is received in full.  This does not apply to built-ins.  in those cases, your stuck with mechanic's lien laws.

   Good luck with this, and all your other clients.

   Michael