Gentlemen (and others….):
I have a set of 1/2″ shank Whiteside cope and stick router bits. It was my understanding that Whiteside was/is good stuff – visual inspection of cutting edges, solder joints, etc. show no flaws in materials….
My problem is unacceptable tearout on the cope cut, particularly on the back (square) cut where it will butt against the panel. Also, but to a lesser degree, (still unacceptable) on the front profile cut, again on the edge next to the panel. This on white pine, cherry and other hardwoods.
I have tried slowing the feed rate, to the point of burning the cherry. I have tried making the cut in shallow increments, but aside from the fact that the fence adjustment on my router table is rudimentary at best, making this onerous when making multiple doors, it still didn’t eliminate the problem. I have experienced the same with the bits spinning at much lower speeds chucked into a router bit collet on a 1 1/2 hp shaper. I have carefully honed the bits w/ extra fine diamond honing sticks.
Other than sacrificing all other considerations of the material such as best face and edge, and making sure that I am cutting with the grain, I’m about out of ideas other than that this is a bum set. Ideas or comments? Thanks in advance!
Replies
More info please. Is this in a router table. How powerful is the router? Are you talking about chip out on the trailing edge as it comes out? or just not cutting cleanly in the cope.
For the chip-out on the trailing edge, I try to make copes first, then shape the sticker afterwards. And if you can use a push block to back up the trailing edge, will eliminate the tear-out on the trailing edge.
Also, If there are a number of rail parts of the same length, I try to keep them wide multiple parts when cutting the cope, then ripping them apart after coping, then running the stickering pattern last.
If your router is underpowered, you may want to waste some of the wood on the TS before running the profile.
Perhaps I have my terminology bass-ackwards. I have assumed that "stick" refers to the end grain cut on the rail that leaves a stick, or more accurately, the tenon of the joint. I always cut this first, and have learned the hard way to back up the cut to prevent tearout.
My problem is with the matching bit, the one that makes the mortise or groove cut in both stile and rail.
Yes, I am using a router table. I have had the bits in 3 different powerheads: 1 1/2 hp Porter Cable - a minimal tool at best, a 2 1/4 hp Bosch w/ variable speed and the forementioned 1 1/2 hp shaper.
Nice tip on cutting wide stock and then ripping. TY!
OK I am with you now. I thought you were talking about the cope. Well, I am sorry you don't have more power to work with. I guess you will need to set your fence to take multiple smaller passes. If you still have tear-out on the final pass, run the edge on the jointer, then make one more thin thin final pass.Some woods are just bad about tear-out. For that, You may need to climb cut with the router, hand held of course, to waste the bulk of the wood, then make the final clean-up normal cut.Having said that, I would just like to state, that it is harder to climb-cut with an under-powered router than it is with a more powerful one. The reason is, that climbing takes more power to start with, and when the under-powered one starts loosing RPM's it has a tendency to start taking bigger bites than you are ready to hold against. then it will start gaining traction and run away from the operator, especially if they are younger or older, or just not too fit. If the router has plenty of power, and you know that you need to anticipate a self-feeding action, it is easier to control because the RPM's stay up, but the bites are smaller, and more controllable when you have plenty of power.Just make sure that the work is secure, and keep the router between the work. spread your feet, and keep your elbows in close to your body with your arm muscles taunt against one another, and rotate at the hips. The RPM's on a shaper are too slow for the smaller diameter of router bits for my liking.
Hand held climb cutting? Hmmmm....
All worth thinking about, but it seems a lot of work and time for what should be a quick 1 pass operation. Time is indeed money.
I quickly came to the same conclusion re: shaper speeds and router bits. I got the shaper on a whim when buying 2 other machines from a guy who was moving/selling out (it was a good deal) I've since gone the router table route and the shaper is collecting dust. Shaper cutters are expensive!
RDNZL ,
As Keith has stated , cut the rail ends first , then make the stile cuts.
Almost sounds to me like under powered , have you tried several passes on each cut ? If the quality improves when you make multiple passes , power is a factor .
dusty
I think what you are saying is that the edge of the quarter round bead is splintering. You have two things breaking out on that edge, the groove cutter and the bead portion. Both have a tendency to take out hunks. Make your first pass with the groove portion just cutting in 1/16" or so. This will help eliminate splintering at that face. The other thing is to back off the full depth just a little, so the edges won't come to a sharp point. Set the fence shy of the rub bearing, this will leave a slightly blunt edge. You will end up with a few less splinters too!
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
hammer 1:
You've got my problem nailed (heh!)
Both suggestions sound effective. I will try them next time. Easier on my home table, the fence of which will allow quick adjustments of the type you are describing. The table at work, where I just encountered this problem again, is another story.
Anyone else as frustrated by the Porter Cable "benchtop" router table as I am?
Thanks hammer!
My experince has been, that if possibe, slow down your router. I was doing the same thing with birch, I had terrible tear out, and then slowed down the router to 10,000 rpm, and that with a proper backing stick, pretty well solved the problem.
Pedro
I'm pretty sure I have the same Jesada set. I love the beaded edge but it is rather fragile, especially in stringy species.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
hammer:
Very similar - mine has a deeper fillet.
Been thinking.... if you make the cut slightly shy of the bearing, you have to make the matching cut in the same way, yes? Otherwise the joint would gap?
RDNZL, you only leave a small amount of bluntness at the edge, maybe 1/32". It won't affect the fit of the joint. I had a reject in the kindling box to take a picture of. The pencil points at some tear out, you can see the reversing grain right there. Nothing you can do with cantankerous lumber except slow down and take less of a cut. Below the point, I marked the blunt edge. It always makes a difference if you can think about grain direction when choosing your pieces. Minor tear out can be sanded a little and it won't show, except to you.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Nice photos. Wish I had a digital camera. One of those "somedays".
I'm going to bow out of the discussion (I think) other than to read new posts for further tips. I will apply all (or most, anyways) of what I've learned here and expect the problem to be solved, or at least more solvable.
Thanks one and all!!! Great resource. I posted a while back with bandsaw questions and also got great help. The bandsaw is now a friend instead of an adversary.
I'd be here more often if I could get affordable broadband......
Seizure!
Are you using a backer when cutting? I cope a 1x with the cope profile, then nest in the piece that gets the sticking cut. It both holds the piece well and prevents tearout.
Relative to your 'rudimentary' fence: You don't have to move the fence or raise the bit to make gradual cuts.
If you only want to do it in two cuts take a piece of 1/4" plywood and clamp it to your fence with a cut-out just large enough to accommodate the bit. Then remove if for the final pass.
Or you could use as many thin shims you need, the last one very thin for the final cut.
Its also advisable to use a backer on your end grain cuts to eliminate tear out on the back side. Somebody else may have this mentioned earlier I didn't read all the posts.
pins
Well duh! Of course! Why didn't I think of that?
Thank you pins!
I use the same method as Pondfish. Works for me.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
A backing piece and a sled works fine for me to eliminate chipout.
If you consider doing a climb cut, you may want to consider using a sled to control the piece and a pesky ole' guard to keep your hands well away from the bit when the router grabs the piece and yanks it through the bit at several hundred feet per second. That's a problem 'cause your 'hind brain' causes you to grab something tighter that is being snatched out of your grip, and your thinking brain can't react fast enough to override it. Even a wimpy 1.5 hp router can pull the piece and you through the bit quite neatly, thank you.
Somewhere on this site are some gruesome pictures of just that occurrence about a month ago. Be safe.
Mike D
Not sure which post it was. But I would NEVER climb cut with a S/R copeing bit ! Thats just asking for Hamburger hands.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I've got to agree with you.........I was listening to him, but with a healthy dose of skepticism.
In my experience, cherry responds better to a higher bit speed. A shaper head is the best due to it's high surface speed and inertial mass, but cope and stick shaper heads are limited as far as the available profiles and they're spendy as all get-out. Another very important factor is chip removal. If you don't get the waste out of the way, it will start to slow down the cut and you'll start to get tear-out. It's unbelieveable how much of a difference that one, small factor can make, but chip removal vs. no chip removal is like night and day as far as surface quality is concerned.
Just my $.02
Nat
Chip removal - makes sense. One more thing to take into consideration next time I set up.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled