Replies

1. 
   lwilliams | Aug 27, 2002 03:26pm | #1

   I don't use cope and stick joints with stub tenons on cabinet doors and sure wouldn't in architectural doors. Most commercial doors are doweled in the stub tenons but I'd use real mortise and tenon construction.

2. 
   Kell | Aug 27, 2002 03:28pm | #2

   Hey FreeGee,

   I've found cope and stick joints to be very reliable provided that the joint is tight.  Mating pieces must be touching or the glue joint will fail.  As these doors are full size interior doors, it would be a good idea to increase the strength of the joints by adding dowels, 2 per joints, as well.  My recommendation would be to drill for the dowels prior to running the cope and stick.  Make the dowel holes about 1/8" longer overall than the dowels themselves.  After insuring that they mate properly, cut the coping and sticking.  Don't worry if the dowels holes appear to mess up the coping or sticking since they will disappear when the joint is assembled.

   When you cut the panels, since you're using plywood, make the panels just slightly smaller than the openings.

   Good Luck!

3. 
   Danford_C_ | Aug 27, 2002 04:22pm | #3

   Gert,

   I'm with Larry on this one; sounds to me like you got a cope and stick set for cabinet doors, not passage or entrance doors, which will allow you to mortise and tenon the rails/stiles.  FWIW.

   Dano

   "Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
4. 
   mike4244 | Aug 28, 2002 03:29am | #4

   Reinforce with dowel or loose tenon. I glue up the frame and panels and drill and dowel after the glue sets.I flush cut the dowels if the doors are painted or if the dowel matches the stile. I make my own dowels with a router so correct speices is not a problem. You could cut the dowels a little short and use plugs that you make.

5. 
   noone51 | Aug 28, 2002 04:04am | #5

   You say you bought a router bit to do this with but normally these are two router bits. One is for the cope and the other for the stick. The joint is normally used for cabinet doors and is not sufficent alone for a large structure such as you are suggesting.  I have built larger mirror sets using a cainet raised panel cope and stick set but I always found it necessary to re-inforce the joints at the stiles with long cabinet screws.

   The joint can be strong but you must always consider the fact that it is nothing more than a very loose half mortise and tennon at best. In saying this I mean that both sides of the mortise are always open so the glue is what is holding things together.

   Many commercial doors use this type of joint but if you are attempting something better than you can buy off the shelf then I do not suggest it.

1. 
   FreeGee | Aug 28, 2002 10:18am | #6

   Hi all,

   thanks for sharing your experiences.I had realised that the largest doors are bigger than usual for cabinet doors. I will reinforce the joints with floating tenons.Nobody seems to like to glue the plywood panels in the frame as some books/articles suggest.The rooter bit I have is indeed intended for cabinet doors. Its a matched set from Trend (U.K). I've made a small panel door with it in pine as a trial. Result was O.K.

   Thanks,

   Gert.

1. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Aug 29, 2002 02:43am | #7

   Nah, glue in the plywood panel, and use any joint you want at the lumber corners.   A solid wood panel needs to float, but a plywood or MDF one does not.   Plywood and MDF have negligable expansion with humidity or temperature.   They're not going to rip apart your door.  In fact, a man-made material for the panel is the surest way of making the door strong.  Why do you think they use plywood for shear-walling in earthquake country?   With a plywood panel, the door will not sag ever.   Structurally, the primary purpose of the lumber becomes keeping the plywood flat.   For that reason, I'd use good cabinet-grade plywood, or even better MDF.   The MDF is flexible enough that the lumber can flatten it out quite nicely.

6. 
   LD | Aug 29, 2002 02:18pm | #8

   Pardon my ignorance, but what is a cope & stick joint?

   Dave

1. 
   FreeGee | Aug 29, 2002 03:59pm | #9

   Hello Dave,

   cope & stick joint is the term used in FWM for a method of making panel doors. The U.K. supplier calls the rooter bit a profile scriber set. You have a matched set of rooter bits that cut the profile and groove in the stiles and rails and the counter profile were the rail meets the stile.

   The picture explains it all.

   Gert.

   
1. 
   SgianDubh | Aug 29, 2002 05:18pm | #10

   Router Free, it's a router, but I knew what you were trying to say. Those malapropism's get us all from time to time, ha, ha. Slainte, RJ.RJFurniture

2. 
   LD | Aug 29, 2002 07:32pm | #11

   Thanks for the education.  Dave

1. 
   kenewald | Aug 30, 2002 12:17am | #12

   A rooter is a puppy looking for a meal.  I think the only resemblance is that they do so in a sirculear motion.

   he he

   (please don't be offended, just in a Friday afternoon mood .. on Thursday, shucks!)