Where can I find info on coping cuts on molding?
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Replies
Cut a 45, outline the edge and follow with a coping saw, finish with a rasp or knife if needed, it's pretty easy.
Not when it's a crown molding that needs to be coped on both ends and you don't have an air or electric nailer to put it up. Particulary hard on the thumbs :-)M
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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Why cope both ends? In a rectangular room I just butt one end to the wall and coped the other end.
One thing I have always done is to put a decorative backer board on the wall that shows below the crown using a routed or molding pattern that compliments the crown. This adds flair and also give a more uniform surface to nail the crown to. Also, never force the crown to fit. Put it in place and nail it. If you force it, it will just be off more somewhere else. If you don't like filled gaps, then get the wall and ceiling square first. It pays to always run a square along the ceiling / wall interface first to see how bad off it is.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
I'm trying to put some molding I made on top of a stairway baseboard. The run of 45 degrees up the stairs is no problem but I can't figure how to make the angles when I get to the second floor and the baseboard is level. All of the tutorials I've read are as clear as mud.
If I understand you correctly, I think this will help you. When you are meeting another molding like in these pictures, you need to find the angle then divide by 2 and cut each piece of molding at that angle. Say the angle was 45 degrees, you could not have the angle piece cut at 45 meeting the level piece of base, the 45 piece would be too long. What you would do is to cut each at 22 1/2 degrees like what was done in these pictures (the molding is only a base cap, the rest is 1x). If you need to, use some small scrap pieces or other molding scraps that are not as important, cut those and check them, make an adjustment, etc.
Good luck
I had to do this with a 1" quarter round, look at this picture:The actual angle you are looking for is 22.5 degrees (pretty small printing in the graphic)Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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I think I had difficulty doing it the way you suggested because I put up one piece butted on both ends. Then coped the two perpindicular to that one and butted the other end. That left the last piece with two copes...It was my first time.Same number of copes but instead of one on each end, one board has none, two boards have one and the forth bord has 2...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Visit Dust Maker
Yep, that would be difficult! I'm right handed so I work left to right going around the room. Butt the left end of each piece, and cope the right ends.
I've done several commercial crown molding jobs in my past life. The last was for myself a few years ago here at home where I did 4 rooms.
The most difficult was a couple thousand feet of 6" oak crown in an old spanish style house that was plastered. Fortunately I was able to get the plaster guys to square up everything first.
Oh yeah, I always used hand saws and custom made each miter box for the size crown at hand. And, I wouldn't even think of doing a crown job without a pneumatic nailer!!!!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Mark, the next time you have to cope a room that would need two copes on one piece, do it this way. First piece you put up is coped on one end. Nail only about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the way,leaving the coped end floating free for now. Continue the crown to the last piece.The last piece will have one coped end and the other square. Pull or block the very first piece with the cope away from the wall,slide the butt end behind the coped end.Now you still have four copes , but not a double cope on one piece.
Another helpful tip you may already know. After cutting the square cut, I tilt the blade a few degrees ( about 3 or4° )cutting the top of the crown off to relieve the molding to give a little clearance from the wall.This portion is covered by the coped cut and makes it easier to install the butt pieces.
mike
Mike
I always do my final piece on a sq. room with copes on both ends.
I like it that way, I cut it a bit(maybe 1/8") long and cope both pieces, cant beat it for a tight fit.
I don't cope with a cope saw though, I use a right angle grinder, copes take about 20 seconds for standard 3 1/2" crown.
Doug
I always thought it would be nice if someone made a hand held powered coping saw!!!! A miniture hand-held band saw! Or a chain saw with a 1/32" kerf??
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
PW,
I have a design in my head for doing coping (with a router and a really small bit - 1/8" perhaps...In theory it works, In practice I have no experience :-)Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Visit Dust Maker
try this.....I have used one.....awesomehttp://www.copemaster.com/aloha, mike A makita 1" belt sander is a great coper also....
Great video by taunton on trim carpentry. covers the how and why of coping molding very well. I highly suggest it. I think its by Craig Savage. Buckism: Will show you the the way
Mike it says that the average time for a 4 1/2" crown is 22 seconds.
Doesn't that machine cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $2400?
You better be doing a lot of repetitive copes to offset that.
I did a trim job recently, whole house had crown, I think I was doing the crown copes in about 10-15 seconds.
When I switched to the 7-8" crown it took longer but I bet I still did mine in less time then you'd set that machine up to do it. I had 3 or 4 copes in the large size crown. On that coper machine you have to do one to give it a blank to work from right? Cant imagine that you'd get the other 3 in in less time.
I'm not saying the machine doesn't have a purpose but I'd think that for that thing to make you any money you better be trimming out some huge houses that need 1000 copes all the same.
Doug
Doug, we do large houses on Maui, it seems thats all that gets built here. The trip with the machine is an experienced guy sets the model up and the the laborers run the copes. And yeah, you have to do alot of them but we have that situation here. I cant imagine doing 7 inch crown or cove moulding on clear finished hardwood faster then the machine does it. Paint grade, yeah, but not teak or cherry or mahogany. The machine is fast and makes the cope copies exactly like the pattern. aloha, mike
Here's the next best thing I've found. It's pretty new and I have recently seen it at my local Rockler store. It's called "Easy Coper", and handles up to 5 1/2" mouldings. You get both a right and left hand, plastic, jig that works with a saber saw. Item # 27397 runs $35.00.Item #2 There is also a replacement foot plate for your saber saw called "The Collins Foot". These are ordered "brand specific", not sure of the pricing, but the ad image looked like it was metal. Oh oh, metal = big bucks. I seem to remember the ad was in FHB, though years ago.Lastly, TOH on the PBS station had a grand coping machine (on loan, I suspect) that was all but automatic. It worked with a circular saw blade but it was askew, perhaps in two planes, and made an exceptional cope in seconds. I suspect there is a comma in the price tag.
"I always thought it would be nice if someone made a hand held powered coping saw!!!!"
My father passed (away) on his wood and machine shop to me some number of years ago. I knew every tool by heart and some I have never seen since. One tool was an electric coping saw. Blade length about 6 inches and the throat probably about 9 inches. Seems to work just fine and slightly better control than a hand coping saw. It could be for sale for $1000.
8:)
I used to finish a square room with a double cope until I was shown this way by another carpenter. I never had any problems with a double cope ,until today. I did have to do a double cope today, on a 3 5/8" crown only 42" long. No springing this one in. Wasn't really much trouble, I had to punch the nails in that the homeowner nailed with his brandnew Impulse gun.I left the nails out of both sides of the last three feet of crown on purpose. He thought he was helping me, at least he got one side right.
I haven't used the right angle grinder to cope with,or seen anyone use it. I have seen on various woodworking forums that a lot of people use this method. I have never timed how long it takes me to cope with a sabresaw, I would guess from the time I start coping till the crown is ready to go up, maybe two minutes on 3 5/8" crown.This includes any light sanding to final fit.Lately I have been fortunate,every piece of crown came with no snipe,all the same profile,I suppose from the same run.
How close to the profile do you grind? I saw as close as possible,mostly within a 1/32" if the light is good.
mike
Mike
I just did a whole house with crown everywhere. I don't think I spent anymore then 20 seconds and a lot of times probably 10 to 15. Mind you this is the 3 1/2" crown.
Use the right angle grinder with a floppy disk, some people use two disk, back to back, I don't but I see where others would think its a good idea. I use either a 24 or 36 grit.
I can grind right up to the profile, and I don't have any steadier hand then anyone else. Maybe more practice I guess. Probably did several thousand of these.
On maybe 1/3 or more of my copes I have to clean the cut up with a file, that adds a few seconds, but I'd guess I'm still getting it done under a minute. Obviously if the crown is 6 - 7" it takes longer.
I'm starting to get a bit older and my sight isn't as good as it once was so light is a big factor. When its good I usually go right up to the profile. If I screw up, and I do once in a while, I just re-cut my 45 and re-cope. If I grind past its usually only by a 1/32 or 1/16th so your not taking that much off and then you either clean up with the grinder or the file.
Over at BT I see a lot of guys tell of using the jigsaw to cope with, seems strange to me but I never tried it so maybe its a good idea. Gary Katz does his that way and promotes the Collins foot in his book, I just never had the opportunity to use one.
Bottom line is that what ever works for you is the best way to do them!
I'm with you on leaving the last few feet of crown loose, often times the only nails I put in are in the very middle, and that might be on a 10' piece, I can always go back and nail it but I do like to be able to manipulate the piece of crown.
Doug
Several things:
It is as much a matter of practice as anything. The first coped joint I made I threw away, the second when into the least noticeable corner of the room... by the fifth I was pretty much dead on- that went in the most obvious corner of the room.
It helps to mark with chalk a reference line for the bottom of the cope, and also to chalk the location of the studs (if you have plaster as I do, find the nail locations in the baseboard- they generally go into studs).
I find a block plane to be handy for fitting coped joints- it allows you to increase the undercut behind the cope, and also to refine the coped cut line in paper thin bites if need be.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
For those of you that do not cope both ends of 1 piece, can you explain how you do this? I can only think of 2 ways and I don't like the sounds of either of them especially on stain grade wood. Thanks Peter
What kind of cuttor or abrasive disk do you use on your angle grinder when you cope molding with it?
Have a nice day Lee
I use 4 1/2" disks, they are flexible. You have to get a rubbery(I don't know if that's a word?) backer for the grinder. You should be able to get them at the big box stores or a tool supplier.
I can take a picture of the setup if that will help, let me know.
I use 24 or 36 grit, depends on what I'm grinding.
Some people use back to back disks, they say that they like it because they can cut from both directions, I haven't tried it and it makes sense but my way seems to work well for me so I stick with it.
Doug
Edited 8/4/2005 10:48 am ET by Doug@es
Thanks for the reply I will have to give that a try. I always took a scroll saw to the job site. dident work too bad. unless you had long peces of molding.
Have a nice day Lee
Coping molding is the EASY part.. Cutting it to the correct length and angle a 'BIT' harder!
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