Technically, this is not a woodworking topic. But only technically, because no wood is involved. In principle, it’s more like a woodworking topic than it’s like anything else.
I want to build a range that is like a La Cornue range, for my kitchen. If you don’t know what a La Cornue is, don’t sweat it. I didn’t either until a couple years ago when I saw one in a Taunton book (see! theres’s a woodworking connection). Alice Waters, of Chez Panisse, has a La Cornue in her home kitchen.
Okay, for those whom I haven’t completely lost at this point: I don’t want to copy the range, exactly. I want to improve on it. One thing I want is to have the grates above the hobs made by a blacksmith to look like interwoven grape vines, with leaves.
I want the oven to be brick lined. I want all of the trim to be brass, and the exterior to be enameled the same chrome yellow as A. Waters’ La Cornue.
Now it’s not like there are books or magazines out there about how to make a range. But considering that the La Cornue costs in excess of $20,000, there’s got to be some value in making a close approximation in the shop.
Does anyone know anything about ranges? Or know anyone who knows anything about ranges?
Rp
Replies
To see what I'm blubbering about, go to:
http://www.lacornue.com/gb/chateau_97.html
And scroll down all the way to the bottom, to the measured drawings!
You'll see why it would appeal to a woodworker.
Rp
Edited 1/6/2007 2:42 pm ET by Riverprof
I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about the founder of Viking ranges.
He was a builder who had more and more requests for commercial style ranges for residential applications. He started the the company by building stoves for high end clients and eventually turned it into Viking Corp.
I could imagine your venture costing maybe 2,3 or even 4 times what one of those ranges retail for. Prototypes are expensive. And unless you have experience in designing and manufacturing then maybe you should think about putting away a few bucks a month toward your dream stove.
Your proposition sounds feasible, but the work involved may not justify the end result unless you are planning to try and manufacture these units on a full time basis.
With dogged determination it could happen. It will cost more than you think.
J.P.
Thanks for your thoughts, JP. There are some characteristics of the design of this range that make it feasible, at a lower cost, I think. But you may be right. It may be too expensive a proposition for a one-off.Rp
Interesting, My wife and I are in the design stages of a large house remodel. The kitchen will be last. She had looked at the stove you linked to. Didn't like it. She wants Wolf. I have no design angst about the choice of stove, all I need to do is pay the nice Wolf people for whatever model she picks. The REALLY important decision regards the PIZZA OVEN. That's mine. And that's taking some time to finalize. And, man will it be NICE! Rich
On his blog for Woodworking Magazine, Christopher Schwartz points out a correlation between woodworking and cooking (especially, in his case, baking).As for Cornue vs. Wolf, I understand your wife's preference. Don't agree with it, but understand it. I really wanted a stainless steel pro range around 1975. By '82 or so, there was one in the Family Ties tv show kitchen, and I knew it was no longer a "nothing off the shelf" idea.Rp
I didn't check out the website, but is the stove cast iron or welded steel?I imagine if it is welded steel then you may be able to fabricate or have someone put something together for somewhat of a reasonable price.However designing the oven and getting the insulation and burner or heating element sized properly could be quite a challenge.Maybe you could find an old stove and take it apart to get an idea of the workings?I like the idea. It seems like a good challenge.I would like to know if you can get it to work.Good luck.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Thanks, J.P.I think the range is mostly cold-rolled steel, probably 14 gauge. It's doable in a shop. Jigs did a good job of listing the challenges. The biggest challenge might be the insurance issue. Could be that you just can't build a stove, period, and have homeowner's insurance.That would explain why no one does it. (It's different from, say, building a custom refrigerator, which COULD be a woodworking project.)Rp
For an oven, you essentially build a steel box within a steel box, and the air gap keeps the outside from getting too hot. Or, you could get some kind of high heat insulator on the outside of the oven box, but separate from the case to maintain an air-gap. Or triple walled like some modern ranges / ovens.
I would just build a box within a box, and install a venting system that I could turn on or off depending on whether I want the heat in the house, or not. I'd probably use soap stone for the lining instead of brick, personal choice. It has less gaps I'd have to deal with. But then again, maybe if I used brick, the shelves it sits on could be the guides for the racks. And for an oven, I'd use electric heat, it can't be efficient to vent most of the heat produced out the flue, which you would have to do with gas, and the controls are simpler. Plus, the advantage of gas for a burner under a pan, the ability to adjust the level of heat quickly, is a disadvantage for an oven, where you want a constant heat.
I guess the question is do you have the skill and equipment, or access to someone with the skills required to carry it out. There is a lot of precision metal work, and finishing involved.
I have a basic idea of how I would approach it, if I were to try it but, would have a huge list of logistical practicality issues to resolve first. Such as:
How are you going to get the enamel / porcelain finish on it? Your looking at a huge, (maybe not huge, but far larger than most artisans have available), kiln to do it well.
The brass trim, are you going to make or buy it? Do you know how to determine the sizing on the hinges, and latches? How do you seal the oven doors?
How are you going to form the top, the original is cast, iirc, are you going to get one cast? Where? Are you going to try formed steel, if so how are you going to form it? Some form of a ceramic maybe, probably not a good choice as it tend to be fragile. Buy burners or try to design your own, and have them cast / machined?
How do you handle the home owner's insurance issues? My policy is null and void if I install any type of heating unit that isn't UL Listed. How much is that going to cost?
There isn't any huge technological issue to overcome, La Cornue has been building essentially the same range for a century, that is part of their charm.
It's just a matter of the logistics of building a one off device that very few people have the complete skills set to do, and fewer have the necessary equipment to do the major components at this scale, on a custom basis.
And, I'd say this is way more of a metal working topic, than a wood one. Unless of course your going to try making a wood burning stove.
Of course, Jigs, you are right: it's a metalworking topic. I belong to a number of metalworking discussions (because I'm building an MG TC from scratch) and there's no way that I'd talk to them about building a range.Anyway, answers to some of your questions:<How are you going to get the enamel / porcelain finish on it?> There are plenty of places to do this. The really difficult thing is preparing the work. There cannot be any filler, plastic or lead, because these would disappear in the heat. The internals would all be off the shelf -- repair parts, basically.The UL issue you raised is one that I've thought seriously about. It may sink the project, unless there's a work-around.
If you're after the aesthetics of a La cornue at a lower price, try looking at the Lacanche range.
Nope, I'm after making something with my own two hands. Anyone with money can spend it.Rp
Prof: Once apon a time I worked for Frigidare repairing ranges, refrigerators etc. Ranges are fairly simple, the modern electronic ignitors and thermostats can be bought and used in a custom range if that is what you had in mind, although wood would not be a useful material for most of it. Duke
"... Buy the best and only cry once.........
Thanks Duke. Actually, there is a lot of wood that would go into the project: it all needs to be mocked up in plywood, and the patterns for all the castings need to be made (well, at least one of each).So there, it is a woodworking project!Rp
Rp: Correct you are! Why use castings though; it could all be machined from stock. The burner heads, manifold, valves other then oven thermostat and main gas valve which I assume you would buy off the shelf as they would be quite complex relative to the rest of it. Would you do the top and side panels in porcelain? That would be another specialty hard to master but could be farmed out to someone with a large kiln. Sounds like fun, let us know how it goes. When I couldn't get a proper replacement part for the top burner ignitor on my stove I built one from various relays and auto ignition coils. Way over kill and much larger then the original electronic unit but it is a conversation piece. I had the local gas company over to check out a problem with the top burners that I couldn't quite figure out and you should have seen the gas tech's face when he saw it; a true Candid Camera moment.
Duke"... Buy the best and only cry once.........
The first thing to do is go buy a used range and rip it apart as stated earlier. You will find there is very little to a range except the aesthetics. Once you see how they are made, not a great challenge, you can start at Parts and pick out the off the shelf components you need.
I converted this old wood burning stove to electric with parts from their. Electric burners on top, burner controls, oven control and thermostat, and electric oven element.
I think your project is very feasible, it will probably be expensive but a lot less than the 20k. The casting idea will be the most cost effective for multiples of the same part. Good luck and keep us posted.
Jack
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