Replies

1. 
   lat_axe | Jun 18, 2020 08:50am | #1

   There's 9 pages of 10-per-page articles on drill-drivers found in this website's "Tools & Materials" section. These are articles from past issues of the magazine, mostly. 90-ish articles!

   You'd have to be a full member to get at most of those articles. If you aren't already, they have a "try it for 14 days free" offer albeit they want your credit card details and you'd have to actively cancel if you decided not to join after that 14 days.

   Personally I think the $99 per year for full access is good value, especially if you don't already have many magazine back issues as paper or DVD. There are probably thousands of articles from the near 300 magazines that you can download in PDF, on every WW subject going. The streaming videos are pretty good too, especially the most recent ones.

   The forum's a bit dull mind. :-)

   Lataxe

2. 
   jfsksa | Jun 18, 2020 09:09am | #2

   I use the Ryobi 18V Lithium tools. I bought a drill/driver set on sale a few years back and am happy with them. The upgraded, heavy duty battery is worth it. I don't know if tools using the nicad batteries are even available now, but if they are, avoid nicad and get the Lithium batteries. Staying with one brand with a common battery lets you collect extra batteries that you can exchange when one loses its charge or you drop one and ruin it.

3. 
   lat_axe | Jun 18, 2020 11:40am | #3

   PS

   A 2014 magazine drill-driver comparison

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/membership/pdf/28938/011245048.pdf

   A 2009 comparison:

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/2009/09/01/compact-18-volt-cordless-drills

   A video comparison:

   https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2008/05/14/testing-cordless-impact-drivers

   Lataxe

4. 
   chipsawdust | Jun 18, 2020 04:23pm | #4

   Your decision will depend a lot on how much you're going to use them. I am not making my living using these tools. I considered the all-out DeWalt setup, but went instead for Black and Decker for far less money, and they have served well for, I believe three or four years.

5. 
   lat_axe | Jun 19, 2020 04:05am | #5

   PPS

   I'll just mention that my own experience with Ryobi batteries has been that they are poor at holding a charge and don't last very well. I found this the case with both their Ni-Cad and, later, the Ni-Mh ones. They may have improved since I bought mine, some 12 and 8 years ago respectively. Used with garden tools, those.

   My drill drivers are all Makita, including a 12V hammer drill-driver, a similar non-hammer drill-driver, a right-angle drill and a pair of 10.8V drill-driver & impact driver.

   All the Makita batteries, starting with Ni-Cad 18 years ago, have been long lasting. The Ni-Cads gave up after about 10 years; similarly with the Ni-Mh that came with the second drill. The lithium 10.8V, which I've had for 12 years, are still going strong.

   ***************
   Makita tools themselves are very robust and seem to last very well too. The 12V hammer drill-driver has done a lot of quite heavy work in the 18 years I've used it. Amateur use, not professional daily abuse; but a lot of work nevertheless. I've changed the spring-loaded carbon bushes once when they wore down.

   Plenty of other brands are very good, by all accounts. Even the Ryobi tools themselves are quite robust.

   Lataxe

6. 
   rob_ss | Jun 19, 2020 04:37am | #6

   The market for these tools is so saturated that mostly when you are paying more, you are getting more.

   I can't comment on others but I have been very happy with my Makita 18V driver. I'm certainly going to buy another - not because it is worn out but because it is so handy to have two - one to drill and one to drive.

   Over the last three years it has seen very heavy DIY use, including sanding turning projects, drilling, driving and drilling a bunch of holes in tough tannalised posts for 20mm gudgeon pins. This last is a seriously heavy job and does overheat it a little, but it just keeps on working.

   So from one personal experience, Makita are awesome.

   Of course, from a price perspective, you could easily argue that if you don't need to run your drill until it smokes then almost any brand will do. A friend of mine who is a professional woodworker buys cheap tools from the local discount retailer and has been very happy with them. I can see his point - using them, they still drill and hammer effectively and cost a lot less than the better tools.

   Batteries are an issue and cheaper brands often save money on battery quality. Some non-manufacturer brands will provide less than half the label capacity.

7. 
   john_c2 | Jun 19, 2020 06:34am | #7

   I'm a firm believer in buying quality. I bought an inexpensive drill package several years ag because it was only a few dollars more than buying batteries and charger separately. What I really wanted was a worklight, and at the time it was the only one on the market. I figured I'd use the drill in my shop if my other drill wasn't at hand.

   Well, the cheap drill lasted about a dozen small holes before the chuck came out and wouldn't stay in. Fine. I still had the light, batteries, and charger.

   The batteries lasted for only a few months before they wouldn't hold a charge any more.

   I won't buy that brand again. All of my cordless tools are Milwaukee now, and I couldn't be happier. In almost ten years I haven't had a tool or battery fail, and I use them on a daily basis.

8. 
   [email protected] | Jun 23, 2020 09:38pm | #8

   Thanks everyone for all your comments. I am a full digital member of FW and searched for articles but did not find anything current. With all the new technology out there and brushless motors, I thought I'd find some newer reviews. Disappointed in that. I just took a cabinetmaking class with @GaryStriegler, and we used a lot of Dewalt cordless and seemed to get good results. I've always had good performance out of Milwaukee as well. Just trying to make a good decision and looking for some third party reviews. I'm what I call a professional hobbyist. I don't work as a woodworker for a living, but as an avid hobbyist, but have had good training in the craft. I like tools that last a good while and perform at a high level. I don't want the tool to be the limiting factor in my work. If I'm the limiting factor, I can fix that I hope... LOL. thanks again for all the comments.

9. 
   mdorsam | Jun 25, 2020 10:04pm | #9

   I tend to view all tool and equipment markets as having 3 levels - In my opinion, these are:
   Top - Brands with advanced ergonomics (perhaps inclusive of better engineering for dust collection) and high-performance/durability to weight characteristics... and they charge you for the pleasure of using them.
   Middle - excellent value for the money; perhaps without the latest and greatest... something, but they'll last you a lifetime of hard use.
   Low - where the bearings and motors and batteries are all there to serve a price-point.
   Milwaukee, Bosch, Makita and DeWalt serve the Middle market well... IMO; and choosing among them is a personal matter. All of the batteries are sourced from a few suppliers; though, there are probably quite different specs.
   The Top tier has the Festool, Fein, Hilti (within their market), and Mafell (within Europe) products - these tools appeal to those who want a buy-once solution and the unique characteristics that the brand offers... AND, are not too concerned with the pricing.
   The Low-end is what it is.
   As individuals, we purchase along some price/performance continuum; and have our own sense of why or why not the Top tier products are worth their premium.
   Personally, I don't have the shop-space for multiple versions of the same tool - one power drill, one router, one of most things, so i'm apt to over-spend for the one version that I do have - for example, I much prefer the Festool OF1400 to the Bosch MRS23EVS, and I'm willing to pay the difference; even-though the Bosch is a damn good router.

10. 
    Ben_M_CA | Jun 25, 2020 11:16pm | #10

    In my experience the biggest real world difference between budget-grade (harbor freight, ryobi, black and decker) and contractor-grade (Dewalt, Milwaukee, Makita) is the quality of the batteries. You will get significantly better runtime, faster charging, more charging cycles and better power curve from the better tools.

11. 
    rob_ss | Jun 26, 2020 04:15am | #11

    This review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXM5bHSk2Y compares a fake Makita impact wrench with a genuine device.
    TL:DR; there is a huge difference in performance and capability, also build quality, but the reviewer would not have been unhappy given he would be able to buy 6 fakes to buy one genuine Makita.

12. 
    lat_axe | Jun 26, 2020 05:18am | #12

    Rob,

    This bit of your last post is an interesting topic all by itself:

    ".....but the reviewer would not have been unhappy given he would be able to buy 6 fakes to buy one genuine Makita".

    When I examine my own motives for preferring a Makita at 6X the cost of something like that fake, it isn't just the cash outlay that enters the calculation of which to buy. I'm sure this is true for many others.

    There's the pleasure of using a high quality tool; the satisfaction of one's "natural sense of economy" in long term use of a reliable item that's also easily maintained; and (these days) satisfaction of being less of a waster filling the landfills and seas with junk and plastic. There are surely other motives that also enter the buying calculation besides monetary cost.

    In modern times (in modern business practice, primarily) there's been an increasing tendency to think only of the bottom line. If a business can spend less on equipment that's just enough to enable their production, that business may not care about the pollution and wastage costs of using just-good-enough tools. The only measure is overall profit, with pollution and wastage costs handed over to "someone else" to bear.

    Of course, the "someone else" is ultimately the people running that business as well as everyone else. Serious pollution, unprecedented species extinction rates and climate change will eat a rich businessman as well as everyone else, eventually. Well, unless those things are just conspiracies by naughty scientists trying to keep their jobs, as some bought & paid-for politicians insist. :-)

    Lataxe

13. 
    joeleonetti | Jun 29, 2020 04:32pm | #13

    20+ years ago, my father gave me a Makita cordless drill. I was happy with it for general woodworking use and odd jobs around the house. Both batteries I had finally stopped taking a charge. I could get the batteries shipped off to be rebuilt (in fact will give it back to my dad as he still has his and plans to send back batteries for rebuilding for a third time).

    I was planning to do a thorough review similar to you. However, the wife went out and bought a cordless hedge trimmer and it only came with one battery and that really isn't enough to trim a single average size hedge. Rather than go buy another battery, I told her to just buy me a cordless drill from the same brand that is also battery compatible with hedge trimmer (which I later found out was Black and Decker). The drill works just fine. Doesn't have a light but then again, my Makita didn't either.

    I only point this out because I ended up with a somewhat inexpensive cordless drill that I would have likely never considered. It works just fine. Based on what I did, I'd suggest thinking of a larger thought of common batter use across cordless products. That might already dictate the decision for you. Unless a professional using it day in and day out, I think they are all going to be just fine if you stick with a brand you recognize.

    Related, a few years ago for a school festival fund raister, I needed to make a box that had 40ish holes that were big enough to put your hand in. I bought a hole saw blade. The Makita was able to cut one but that sapped the aging batteries and it was a bit slog going. As such, I needed a corded drill. Same thing, I went to the local Ace hardware and bout the most inexpensive corded drill they had from a brand I had heard of. It was $50ish and from Black and Decker. I was amazed at how much torque it had and how well it worked. I have a hunch most known brands are more than good enough for the casual user. I am not going to run out to Harbor Freight, however, if Lowers, Home Depot, or Ace carries a name brand, it will likely get the job done. If you are a working professional, then I can understanding being more particular much in the way I am particular about some of my hand tools for woodworking.

14. 
    joeleonetti | Jun 29, 2020 04:50pm | #14

    Wood Magazine has been reviewing either this year or last year a lot of cordless tools (one tool per issue). I suggesting checking there if you want to find more recent reviews.

15. 
    sewerman | Jul 02, 2020 06:56am | #15

    Many in the drill/drivers mentioned above are certainly top shelf. I own and use quite a few of them. However, when working in my shop at the bench, my hand always seems to gravitate to the compact Bosch 12 volt components. They're light in the hand, and I've never had any problems with quality. Also, new Bosch 12v tools are being introduced regularly.

    John Hollaway
    Chambersburg, PA

    BTW: I have no affiliation with Bosch or any other tool company

16. 
    revbob | Jul 10, 2020 08:57pm | #16

    Give the Ridgid a look from Home Depot. Register for lifetime warranty including batteries. I have five of them and at 10 years old they are as good today as they were new. They are stout and won’t back down. The batteries also hold a good charge. PS I don’t work for HD. My cabinet install workers loved them more than their DW or Makita’s. I have the 12 volt units. Ridgid replaced 6 batteries recently. Have you priced batteries lately?