Today was a big day for me. I drove up to the Grizzly showroom for the first time to pickup the G0513X band saw I had on order. I’ve been so happy with the smaller G0455 14″ industrial grade Grizzly bandsaw that I bought a year ago, I sold it to a buddy and upgraded to get more resaw height. Last year I also had a G1023 cabinet saw on order. After waiting over 3 months to get one, Grizzly still couldn’t tell me when they would be arriving so with regret, I cancelled the order and bought a Jet hybrid saw. The Jet saw has been fine to a point, but it wasn’t the cabinet saw I wanted to begin with. While at Grizzly today, looking at the G1023 saw on the showroom floor, I just couldn’t take it and bought one! I’ll sell the Jet, as I said, it’s been a fine saw on it’s own and is setup perfectly to ‘exact’ tolerances to boot!
My question is, how do you all get the cosmoline off the new table surfaces? Grizzly advises against petroleum based solvents, but I can not find a non petroleum based cleaner that will touch the stuff. Mineral spirits is what I normally use and it takes it right off, and that’s what I’ll use if I can’t find a better alternative. Any other suggestions for a more ‘user friendly’ non petroleum based solvent??? Thanks…Jeff
Replies
Since Grizzly advises against petroleum based solvents, why don't you ask them what they do recommend?
Kerosene is usually used to remove cosmoline on new machines. It works great and does not damage the paint. Grizzly does state in the manual not to use gasoline or petroleum-based solvents because of the low flash point. Grizzly suggests using a citrus-based degreaser such as their G7895 Degreaser, but kerosene works great. Just use in a well ventilated area with no open flames.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Edited 6/23/2007 9:34 am ET by JerryPacMan
Jeff, start with a plastic putty knife (wide blade), scrape as much off as you can, then go to kerosene. It's ugly, I know, but has to be done. Congrats!
I just scrape the majority with a plastic putty knife and then elbow grease and lots of paper towels. Never used anything else.
Douse it with kerosene, light a match and let 'er burn.
While your at it throw on a salmon steak, (see "cooking with cedar" post), and kill two birds with one stone. Or is that "get two birds stoned at once"?
I can never remember.
I think you want to use a cleaner-burning fuel. Without atomization, kerosene is pretty dirty. Why not try some white gas?OK, just in case someone doesn't get it, I AM KIDDING!
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I run the 5 hp General through lamp cord attached under the top of the saw which after ripping 50' to 100' of 4/4 anything is hot enough to fry bacon.
Convenient for those days when you just can't find the time to stop for lunch.
I think they just want to make sure their lawyers are happy with their disclaimers. As long as adequate ventilation is provided, the mineral spirits, etc will do a great job. Just be careful about leaving soaked towels, rags, etc laying around and don't put them in a waste basket or loosely covered container, to keep the risk of spontaneous combustion low.
I don't know what you'll use to protect the top and bare cast iron parts, but I use paste wax on my 1023S.
Ironic, ain't it? "Don't use petroleum products to remove the cosmolene (a petroleum-based product, IIRC) from the table", then it gets a few coats of paste wax. Hmmm.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 6/24/2007 11:16 am by highfigh
I use Boeshield T-9 to protect all my bare steel and iron surfaces. It's the best stuff on the market, nothing else comes close in protecting metal from corrosion. One treatment last's me about 9 months! I follow with paste wax to make the metal more slickery, but make no mistake, it's the Boeshield that is protecting the metal from corrosion, not the wax.
http://boeshield.com/index.htm
I was using TopCote until the last time I sprayed the rest of a can on and in that lighting, I saw how much was going airborne and not landing on the top. Aerosol is hardly the best way to put something like that on but I haven't seen it in a squirt bottle. I would do a couple of coats and every spring, I would be out there with Scotch Brite, getting rid of the rust. Last time, I finished, wiped it down with solvent, let it dry and put three coats of paste wax on. I left it uncovered for most of last winter and still haven't done anything to it this year. Still clean, still slick. I have heard that BoeShield is good stuff and I'm not going to argue that but the paste wax does a lot as the first line of defense. I would hardly say it does nothing and I have to think that you know that, too. I'm in Milwaukee, about 2 miles from Lake Michigan and when we have a warm day in the middle of winter, everything gets wet whether we want it to or not. My comment had more to do with Grizzly and other companies telling us not to use petroleum based cleaners when they used cosmolene, which is oil based and most waxes, which have petroleum distillates in them. Did you miss where I wrote "Ironic, ain't it?"?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Sure, I got the irony in your note.
I started out using paste wax on my tables. But I sweat. Some people perspire, by gawd, I sweat when I work, and the sweat drops on my tables would cause rust in spite of the wax. So I started using Boeshield T-9 and end of problem. I wouldn't disagree that paste wax is probably adequate under ideal conditions of resonable humidity and no salt, and regular recoating. FWW did an evaluation of these rust preventative type of products and no other product came close to the Boeshield product in protecting steel and cast iron. Now here's some irony for ya. I've worked for Boeing for 25 years, the first 6 as a machinist. Until I read the FWW article, I'd never heard of Boeshield! We used to treat all the metal parts in the shop before the long Christmas holiday, the solution smelled and looked just like automatic transmission fluid. No way was it Boeshield. Ironic eh?...LOL....
Regards....Jeff
Now, that IS ironic!Since they do products by submitting bids, is it because Boeshield is too expensive for Boeing to actually use it?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Is the Boeshield only available through the weblink you posted or is it available at local stores?ThanksCharlie
It's supposed to be available at all Sear's stores. I' bought all mine through the local Rocklers here in the Seattle area. I think it's available through most of the major wood working tool vendors. It's available through Amazon.com as well. Comes in a 12 oz. aerosol spray bottle (often times packaged with two other products, a Rust remover, and a blade cleaner product which also works very well) or a 4 oz. squeeze bottle. When I first started using it I thought the little 12 oz. bottle was going to be woefully inadequate for my needs, I wanted a larger volume package, but I learned a little bit goes a long way, and that 12 oz. spray can did every machine in my shop. Twice. The directions are a little vague. I get best results by spraying it on, ensuring full coverage (sometimes I soak a papertowel and trowel it around to make sure I've got every part of the surface covered). Then I let it set for 24 hours and buff off. It works, and it works very well.
I'll be doing all my guns before hunting season this year a well. Tends to rain here in the fall, winter, spring, and part of summer!
Thanks for the info. The next time I am at Rockler I will pick some up.
Charlie
Boeshield is basically a liquified paraffin wax. It's great stuff.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/25/2007 4:17 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
It's much more than basically a liquid paraffin wax! I thought your degree was in English, not chemistry....
Jeff
It's great stuff, but it is a spray-on wax.
From the FAQ section of the manufacturer's website:
Q. I am wondering if T-9 has silicone in it? I want to use it within a wood shop, and silicone is a no no for finishing.A. T-9 has no Silicone or Teflon’s it is a paraffin wax base.
The MSDS sheet on the aerosol product (the most popular formulation) shows it to be about 53% odorless mineral spirits which acts as an evaporative solvent for the wax that's left behind. The mineral spirits also penetrates rusted parts, etc.
Another 9% is mineral oil, another fifteen percent or so are butane and propane used as propellants.
These are only the reportable components. Paraffin wax is not a reportable component (but the company acknowledges its inclusion so no big). If it was a reportable component you'd find that it is, more or less, the remaining 'missing' ingredient. There are no other petroleum-based solvents or water displacing chemicals in the product or they'd be on the MSDS. It's a big can of mineral spirits with some dissolved household candles in it.
You could easily toy around with some canning wax (or white household candles) and mineral spirits (add a dash of Norton honing oil which is highly refined, less viscous mineral oil) and come up with a very Boeshield-like concoction. You'd have to apply it with a cloth if you don't have the equipment to package it with propellants in a can.
There is nothing particularly magical about the product other than its simplicity - which I think is a huge plus.
You spray it on. The mineral spirits evaporate. An oily/waxy thin film is left behind that is mostly paraffin with some mineral oil.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/25/2007 5:12 pm by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Whatever....If it's so easy to make, why isn't anyone else even close with a comparable product?Inquiring minds want to know...
I'm sorry to have burst your bubble, Jeff. It seems you thought there was something magical about the product, like the Keebler elves put in some overtime at the Boeshield plant. Sorry, that doesn't seem to be the case.
Here's some interesting reading, the MSDS on VX nerve agent:
http://www.ilpi.com/msds/vx.html
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/26/2007 8:02 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Great comeback. But I noticed you didn't address my question. Typical for people who are FOS. If the product is basically wax, why hasn't another company marketed a product with similar performance?
Have a great day.
I have no idea why other companies, who have the technical ability to melt candle wax into white mineral spirits, have not done so. Obviously, I can't speak for all the lubricant manufacturers in the U.S.I'm not sure why you have so much invested in this product having some magical formulation. It's beauty and elegance is its simplicity.Plain paraffin wax, which the company itself acknowledges is the 'base' of the product, is surprisingly tenacious. Why does this take the lustre off the product for you? You and I agree that the product is wonderful. I just haven't developed the romantic notion about it that you apparently have. I can guarantee that if you spray a thin layer of candle wax on a cast iron surface that there will not be any rust formation on that surface. And if you add a touch of mineral oil to it so much the better.Relax Jeff. Boeshield is good stuff. You aren't being ripped off because some organic chemist came up with a relatively simple formula for a product that works. It's reliable and a can goes a long way. FWIW, mineral spirits form the base for an incredible array of products. Companies will throw a little bit of this and that in (usually enough to get a patent, a relatively easy thing to do) but the mineral spirits provide most of the efficaciousness (ability to 'penetrate' 'loosen rust' etc.)It's all good.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Edited 6/26/2007 11:38 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
The fact of the matter is, if it really is that simple, other companies would be producing it and marketing it given the fact that there's significant profit to be made due to the lack of effective products on the market, other than the Boeshield product. An intelligent person would assume, given the lack of other effective products, that it is NOT that simple, and that is why other companies have been unsuccessful in marketing a competitive product, especially for marine environments!
I have nothing vested in this product. I only endorse it as a consumer and a woodworker. My endorsement is based on my experience with it has proven it to be a very effective product. I make no money from it, nor do I gain anything from it's promotion, other than the satisfaction I get from helping my fellow woodworkers. That is my only motivation.
Given all the reading you do, I'm surprised you missed the FWW test they conducted some time back, with 6 or 8 products that compete with each other in addressing the problem of preventing rust (oxidation since you're so well educated). Had you read that report, you would appreciate how effective the Boeshield is, and conversly how ineffective all other competing products are. I am simply trying to help other woodworkers effectively address a problem that plagues us all, which is the appearance of rust on our expensive machinery and the application of some method to prevent the rust from occuring.
Jeff, you're preaching to the choir.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.Edited 6/26/2007 11:41 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Edited 6/26/2007 11:46 am by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
I carefully read your disclaimer. It confirms my original comment. Yer full of beans....;-)Just kidding. I guess I took offense at the burst your bubble comment. I should know better than to let comments on these forums push my buttons. I'm too old for this nonsense. No blood no foul. Have a good one.
Boeshield is really an elegant solution to a pesky problem.I love easy. Enjoy your woodworking.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Jeff, brother Charles is now into needlework and very expensive torches-see the adverts under his post. (,)Philip Marcou
Mineral spirits is flammable, and care should be taken in that regard, but it isn't the kind of "oily rags" that is subject to spontaneous combustion. That comes about when a drying oil is undergoing chemical reactions in its curing process that generate heat. The mineral spirits just evaporates--albeit into flammable vapors if sufficiently concentrated.
I know, but they should be dried before tossing into a trash can. There's a boat manufacturer in Abilene, TX where they used to have a fire every week in their dumpsters because the people laying up the fiberglass tossed their partially used cups of polyester resin in with the rest of the paper, etc. They had 55 gallon drums filled with water, specifically for disposing of these cups and they still went right in the paper filled dumpster.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I was going to comment on drying oils and spontaneous combustion vs evaporative solvent like mineral spirit but you have done a much better job. Are you sure that mineral spirit is classified as flammable? I thought it was in the combustable classification along with diesel fuel. But I haven't been in the industrial safety game since the early '80s and I forget a lot of stuff.
BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in South'n Murlyn'
No I wasn't making that distinction, just the simple observation that even if it doesn't create spontaneous combusion, it can still burn. The polyester example (and epoxy is similar) of another poster is a good example of the exothermic reactions that can generate combustions if the heat can't escape.
You are right about mineral spirits being a combustible liquid; flash point 100 deg F or over. Flammable denotes flash point over 20F and under 100F.You can't get an explosion of mineral spirits vapors in an open container until the temperature of the liquid is 100 degrees F, at which point the concentration of vapors in the air over the surface is high enough that a spark or flame will ignite them.It is perfectly safe to clean off cosmoline with mineral spirits unless you are smoking at the time or working right next to the water heater or furnace pilot light. Poor ventilation, however, can allow vapor to build up enough that you could get a little high if the room is small. Don't ask how I know, but it involved varnish, a 5x5 room, a small step ladder and the momentary sensation of flying.BruceT
The Marine Corps recommended boiling water for removing the cosmoline from an M1 Rifle. Gasoline was quicker, but quite unsafe. Cosmoline is a PITA.
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