Big time newbie here. I’m starting to gather hand tools and am happy with the progress I’m making. I really an enjoying using my first plane. My new $40 stanley block plane seems to work great.
As I’m looking for more hand tools, I’m seeing how expensive they can be. I have plenty of time now, and would like to use hand tools – pretty much exclusively. With the sharp, japanese back saws, the time and energy I spend cutting is insignificant.
Now, If I continue buying hand tools is that going to end up being more expensive than getting machinery?
I realize that most ppl use a combo of both. I’m wondering which will be more expensive – a comination of hand and power tools or just a collection of hand tools?
Any thoughts on this? Maybe someone sees what I’m trying to get at, but am not asking the right question.
Feel a little silly with this. If anyone needs help with what type of guitar to get, let me know. After years of playing and purchasing different guitars, amps, etc. I now know all that I really need. Even if some told me in the beginning what I know now, I’m better off for having gone through the process – although it was ten times more expensive. Sorry for the lengthy question. Thank you. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. As a newbie, I’m very impressed with the discussions on this site. Some day I hope to be able to offer advice.
Replies
If you go out and buy a dozen Lie-Nielsen, or similar, planes and the very best hand forged Japanese tools you could certainly spend as much money as someone buying a shop full of power tools.
However you can buy perfectly adequate hand tools without spending nearly that much. I think that I could set up shop with every hand tool I needed for something in the range of $1,000 if I took my time to find good quality used tools and searched for bargains. With all new tools the cost would be higher but still less than the cost of a set of mid range quality power tools.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
A full-equipped shop filled with hand tools is going to be less expensive than a fully-equipped shop filled with big iron. Don't forget, if you work with power tools, you're going to need most of the hand tools anyway! (Rule of thumb, if you buy an 8" jointer, your next project will have you working with 10" stock.)
There are other benefits to using what Mike Wallace calls "handraulics." 1) You have to work much harder to do yourself significant injury. 2) You'll produce less dust, and very little of it small enough to hurt you, which also has health benefits. 3) You'll increase your fitness out of simple necessity. 4) You'll gain an intimate familiarity with your stock and your projects that outstrips what you get when using power tools.
The main drawbacks are: 1) It is (sometimes) slower. 2) Some of the fundamentals (like making a true, flat, squared board) are hard to learn, particularly if you've nobody to teach you in person. 3) Some folks may lack the physical ability to do some necessary operations, due to injury or infirmity.
I'm a new woodworker, and I invested heavily in power tools. Sometimes I regret it, and think it would have been better to have gone all-handraulic... but I've got a lot of work to get through in the next year, and I do think I'll get it done faster with the tools I have. But if you're thinking it might be fun to work with hand tools exclusively, why not start there? You can always add power tools if you want to later, and the expertise and equipment you've already acquired will still be there.
Time is the major consideration for choosing one or the other.
Fine woodworking was accomplished using just hand tools a few years ago.
Power tools make beginners with less skill more capable because they take out the basic skill set required to say, hand cut dovetails, or shave a hair off a door, or for that matter cut a straight line with a handsaw.
What are your woodworking goals?
If time is a constraint to you power tools take some of the tedious work out of stock preparation. If relaxation and no schedule go for all hand tools, although they require a terrific skill set and some time reading and practice before you become proficient.
One thing I read recently, which made a lot of sense is that most power tools are essentially disposable but most hand tools will last (more than) a lifetime.
I don't remember how many electric drills, circular saws, and routers I've fried. I'm on my second table saw, but I hope the unisaw, planer, jointer, etc, will outlive me.
On the other hand, I suspect that if I sharpened and worked with my LV bevel up jointer plane every day, maybe I'd need a new blade before I go into the ground. Same would go for chisles, mallets, and so forth. Ok. Maybe its cheaper to replace a saw than have it sharpened.
Of course, I have a rapidly growing collection of planes. But thats another illness.
To me, you don't need to choose exclusively power or hand tools; don't make it an "all one or the other" question. My advice is to figure out what kind of work you like to do and buy the best tool for that work; it may be a power tool, or it may be a hand tool, you may even make some of the tools you will use. I would highly recommend the two handplaning videos by David Chats- or Charlesworth (I think is his name). You can get the video versions for $5 each fm Lie-Nielsen; money very well invested. You absolutely must learn to sharpen a chisel and a plane iron, or you will not be able to get the even the best chisel or plane to cut properly; even with the iron perfectly honed, you still have to get the plane set up properly, and then you need to know what you are doing; how to plane; it is more than ramming a plane over the wood. It takes knowledge and practice and caring. You can get an old Record or Stanley plane to do a darn good job, but you have to know what you are doing, otherwise you may get frustrated and think handtools are not for you. If I were you, I would buy one Lie-Neilsen plane brand new fm Lie-Nielsen. Buy a no. 3, no.4, or the low angle adj.mouth block plane, you can't go wrong with any one of those; they seems expensive, but frankly they are worth every single penny. That plane, and its parts, and the iron will set the standard by which you can judge other planes that you may buy used, or plane you can build yourself (get some of the James Krenov books too). If you start trying to rehab a used plane, you may never really know how well a good plane functions. When you learn to use and sharpen it, you will be ready to evaluate other planes, and you will know what to look for and what to avoid. I like japanese chisels, and I generally buy old stationary power tools, the older the better, really. Another caution, don't buy Craftsman power tools; spend a little more and get quality. Compare a Porter Cable router versus a Sears. I am about out of time, but think you will find my advice quite sound. Some tools you need to spend the money and get top of the line, other tools aren't as critical; it just depends on what you want to build; you may get buy with a set of inexpensive chisels, but have one or two that cost more than the other combined, and well worth it. This advice would have saved me a lot of time and money; also, be careful, think twice, and if it doesn't feel safe and right, it probably isn't. Best Wishes, Robert.
I'd like to ask you....are you planning on Gardening, or planning on Farming? ; )
The way I answered the same questions years ago was What do I want to build ? Are you going to make bird houses or do you want to build a book stand, table or... To me, there's a 101 ways to look at and answer this question but I believe the most important is what are your plans for now. Once you know the answer to this then I'd look at what you need to accomplish the task at hand. If you're going to build a bench for out doors... a Stanley saw, 12" square, 12' measuring tape etc. etc. etc. Once you've built several items and it looks like you want to continue with this, you'll already have some knowledge on how to go about these tasks. Then the next question would be if you want to stay at this level or expand onto bigger and better pcs. Instead of book stands it might be a nice bookcase etc. Then ask yourself if you want to continue with the hand operations or go to a table saw, mitre saw, sanders.... and build the pcs. a little simpler/quicker with these tools. As you continue building pcs. you will start to know what tasks you might like to do by hand and others that you might not be to wild about and want to turn it over to machinery etc. If it looks like you're going to continue with this then I would Definitely purchase only Quality tools rather than a hand plane for $19.95 ! BUT, to me, I would not do this until you got your feet wet and tried building some simple stuff first. When I first started out I had a few hand tools an electric drill that was used for the drilling & sanding curves with a drum sleeve! Then the BIG day came when I bought a Sears Radial Arm Saw with 101 attachments to do everything from shaping, to sanding to planing all while playing Dixie! As time went on I found that there was a lot of ways to do the same tasks and made decissions accordingly when it came time to purchase machinery/hand tools .I also found for me that the combination of hand tools and machinery was the best for me...I started out making bird houses and I now build custom furniture pcs. for clients and I'm loving every minute of it...
As I said, by asking yourself these questions and start out getting your feet wet, you'll find out if this is going to be a hobby or like it so much that you want to stay with it and in time build furniture pcs. Then invest in the quality tools. As dovetail bob said, you WILL feel and see the difference in a quality tool. Night and Day. I Hope this has helped you and remember, you don't have to "feel silly asking questions"... ALL of us had a beginning!
You know, I don't know where the slipery slope started, I don't remember there being a map to the trailhead, I don't remember there being a black diamond, no one told me anything,...
One minute I was thinking,...Gee wouldn't it be neat if I could replace everything my electric router does with a handplane? That way I could listen to music while I work and not breathe dust! The next thing I know I got a wall full of wooden molding planes and ebay is sending me text messages,...Heck, I'm still looking for the ones I really want,...and some where along the way I developed a saw problem, and what is perhaps an even worse chronic plow plane problem,.... What slippery slope? I didn't see a slippery slope? Don't even talk to me about sharpening systems - you know it makes me crazy,...How come my view of the world of hand tools looks like a 185 mph blur?
Tongue-in-cheek, I guess you realize, but don't underestimate the cost of handtools! Whatever you work with, there's always one better. Mint-in-the-box, with a full label! The handtools equivalent of the never-played 1957 stratocaster.
Good luck, Ed
I've acquired a good number of hand tools over the past 45 yrs, not many bought new. Check out second -hand stores, antique shops, yard and estate sales if you have time. The search an d finds form a good hobby in themselves.
Tom
If you get the machinery, you'll probably end up with most of the hand tools anyway... So yes it will cost more.
I try to let my tool purchases come naturally. I buy what I need when the project calls for it. I try not to buy tools on the "So and so used it to do this, so..." instinct. It happens occasionally.
When I buy I try to get the best quality tool I can, and I think that makes the difference regardless if you're buying hand tools or power tools. Low quality tools can just be frustrating. Good quality need not be expensive either, I have a bunch of older restored Stanley planes that I got on the cheap. That said there are hand tool brands like Veritas and Lie-Nielsen that are consistently good, and I recommend.
I view all my tools as investments rather than a cost. If I buy a good quality hand tool or power tool it will outlast me, if I take care of it, and I'll have years of enjoyment from it. That to me is a really good investment.
I think you'll find that as time goes by you'll end up with a basic selection of both, which is probably the most practical way to get things done and really enjoy woodworking. I really enjoy my hand tools, and use them whenever I can; but for certain tasks the power tools just speed things up. Since I have limited time in my shop these days, that's important.
Regardless of which way you go, its how you feel about the end result that really matters.
If I were in your position I would by 2 high quality "warehouse" brooms one for your shop and one for the terrible day that will most certainly come when your significant other finds out how much better they work than those crappy nylon sold in a super market brooms. Might as well get 2 steel dust pans or you will lose yours also. These two are to get you started towards working clean. Next buy a good set of measuring, marking and drawing tools. Make sure these tools are square if they are supposed to be and since a good tape should be included make sure it is adjusted to read identical to your other tools. ( Its does not matter if every thing you think is 6 inches really is 6 inches only that every tool you measure with reads the same.) Next buy some good straight grained wood. It will be easier to work. Next draw something that you can build using the amount of lumber you bought. Consider the tools and skills that you have when planning.(remember when you only new 3 chords) Now build it. If you need a specific tool buy it. If you get into machines buy the safety stuff first. (ears, eyes and dust.) If you are doing something new try learning to do it with hand tools . Some tasks are just easier with machines. ( I use planes to edge a few boards, jointer to edge a lot of boards) Ruling out machines is more like ruling out certain chords than ruling out electric or acoustic. you will probably want both tricks in your bag. I use machines when they enhance what I am doing or save labor when I don't feel like pumping up like Arnold.
AAAPoplar,
"I realize that most ppl use a combo of both. I'm wondering which will be more expensive - a comination of hand and power tools or just a collection of hand tools?"
From a total expense perspective, there are a few more questions you might want ot think about. What do you want to build? How long will it take you to develop the hand tool skills to achive what you want to build? Do you have a lot of money to buy wood already prepared...ie. 3/8 " thick stock for drawers. etc. veneers? As was mentioned, its not cheaper to try and replicate the functionality of the router with hand tools. Resawing on a bandsaw saves lots of money for me and the skill is fairly easy to acquire. Sawing by hand 1/4" thick slabs would be a bear.
So into that total expense catagory you might consider not only the cost of the tool(with or without a tail)but also the wood, time, and training necessary.
AAA:
Good hand tools can be expensive, but if you go with the combo of power tool and hand tools, it will be just that much more expensive: you still need the hand tools to clean up the tool marks from the power tools.
(Truth in advertising disclosure: I used to use power tools, and have since become a hand-tools-exclusively woodworker; one-too-many close calls with non-surgical digit removal, etc.)
If you enjoy using hand tools, and are learning what you need to know, then stick with it; there is no reason why you MUST add power tools; only add them if you want to.
And to re-iterate what has already been recommended: buy the best hand tools (and power tools if you decide to go with them) that you can afford. That way, you only have to buy them once, and you're not spending/wasting time fighting the tool, excessive time and effort tuning it up, etc.
One other thing that makes tool acquisition a little easier is to buy only the tool(s) you need for a particular project; that way, it seems to hurt the wallet a little less.....
Good luck and let us see some of your work.
Cheers!
James
Wow. Thanks so much for all this advice. Already re-reading them as this is valuable info. Seems like a common thread in this discussion is to get the tools as you need them for a project. Right now, I could spend four hours in the garage, just trying to get 4 small pieces of wood square so I could practice dovetail joints. My chisels, saws, plane, etc are all new Stanley. I realize they're not the absolute best quality, but I am enjoying figuring out how to make them work better. The article from Chris G-something are excellent. He does a good job of showing how to tune up a plane
After watching a saw sharpening video on FWWN, I did a good job of messing up one saw. Then, I read a second article on saw sharpening by T. Frid. I had the right file this time, knew the way the teeth should look. So, my second attempt w/ a new Stanley dovetail saw came out pretty good. Also, I just got the taunton router joinery dvd by Rogowski from the local library. Very good dvd. Didn't realize you could do all that with a $200 or so machine and one slab of mdf as a router table.
It's interesting to see that these full time professionals often have to make due with the resources they have, just as the amateurs do. Seems like that's a big part of the appeal to wworking. Doesn't seem like it would be as much fun if you afford every tool you wanted. So much more to learn . . .
Again, thanks for the info. Dave.
A long time ago when I started, machines were not an option because of cost. In hindsight I have to admit that I got hooked on hand tools and began collecting antique planes and anything else I could find. If we add up the cost of all my hand tools, I've spent (invested?) many times as much on them as I would have to set up a shop with machines. It seems that the first Lie-Nielsen simply leads to the next - as well it should. What ever you buy - buy the good stuff.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled