I’m hoping to buy a 14″ bandsaw. Unfortunately, my budget is very limited and so as before I’m looking at a couple of Craftsman saws. The first is one that is no longer made but a few stores still have them in stock. It has a 1 1/2 h.p. motor but only 6″ resaw capacity. It also has guide blocks. The newer model has guide wheels, 8 1/4 resaw capacity but only a 1 h.p. motor. I guess my question is whether the 1/2 h.p. is going to make any difference in it’s ability to resaw, especially since it can take a wider board?
What it is about Craftsman that makes them the stepchild of the woodworking world?
Replies
What it is about Craftsman that makes them the stepchild of the woodworking world?
1. Avaliability of parts for older machines.
2. Because their machines are made by different companies, the quality is sometimes hit or miss.
That said, I've purchased several of their machines over the years. They were what I could afford at the time. All in all, I've had fairly good luck with their stationary machines, not as good luck with the hand held power tools.
Edited 2/27/2006 10:55 am ET by oldfred
<<"What it is about Craftsman that makes them the stepchild of the woodworking world?">>
Craftsman still sells a lot of power tools, and I frankly think it's because they are more convenient to buy. You can get them through any Sears store.
They are the "stepchild" for all the reason you would expect. The machines often don't work right, and generally, you have to fight them most every step along the way.
Maybe someone else will come along here and talk about their virtues; but for me, I don't think any of the Craftsman machines are worth spit.
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"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Save your money for another month or two, and get a Delta, Jet, Powermatic, etc. instead. Among other things, the fences on Craftsman saws leave a L - O - T to be desired; they are a royal PITA to adjust and don't seem to stay in place. Not worth the time and effort, IMO.
With most of the others, you can get around a 12" resaw capability, which you'll probably find more useful, and they tend to be of much better quality. The fences, even if you have to pay extra for them, are MUCH better than what you'll get with the Craftsman.
Edited 3/1/2006 12:44 am ET by pzgren
Can't over-emphasize the availability of parts. My Jet table saw is as old as dirt, and I can still get parts for it. I have Sears stuff that's the same age that doesn't even show up in their database.
Have you looked at the Grizzly saws? If you're really limited in $$ they are probably the best way to go. Sometimes it's just not possible to "Save up for a (fill in the blank)." If not, take a look at the Grizzlies in your price range and do some research on user reports.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have taken a look at Grizzly. Are they tood machines? From what I've read, they seem to be pretty solid minus the fences. Did I see a new Grizzly that was basically the same as the old but with a new cast iron fence? I'll need to look some more.By the way Forestgirl, my interest was peaked when you replied yesterday to my inquiry about the Mule fence. Are you really going to try one out? Let me know what you think or maybe you can get some of the members you were speaking of to get on and give their two cents.Thanks,
Kurt
Hi, Kurt. I'm not aware of any 14" Grizzly saw with a cast iron fence (except the old one I have in my shop, LOL). Is it the new G0457??
When it comes to getting an "economy" bandsaw (defined as something other than a MiniMax, Laguna, or (down the scale) 14" Jet or Delta) I'd go with Grizzly long before Craftsman. That's my prejudice -- too many problems getting decent technical support from Craftsman, and they don't have much direct link, it would seem, with the actual manufacturing of their machines. Maybe that has changed recently, but that's been my past experience. I live about 3 hours away from the Bellingham Grizzly Showroom, so I go up there every 2 or 3 years to get up close and personal with their machines.
Probably best not to wait on any feedback from me about the Accursquare fence. There are several things ahead of it on the list (router fence and sled; some sharpening and tool-setup helpers; a benchtop mortiser). It's gonna be awhile!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 3/5/2006 1:43 pm by forestgirl
That's the one. The description is a little confusing though so it may be misleading. Here is the first three sentences about the G0457 from the Grizzly site: "We've included so many features with our 14" Industrial Re-saw Bandsaw you'll want to read the list twice! First, we've added a patent pending fence designed especially for re-sawing. It has a cast iron body, a 6" extruded aluminum face with a quick release handle so it can be repositioned for the most convenient placement."Not sure if the "cast iron body" is refering to the fence but would a cast iron fence body be faced with extruded aluminum?The price looks great if it's what it looks to be. What do ya think?
OK, I took my glasses off and looked real close, yep the fence body is cast iron.
The fence factor in choosing a bandsaw isn't, IMHO, the same as the fence factor in choosing a table saw. Seems like every fence out there (I exaggerate a bit) has it's detractors so I don't know if there's a "Biesemeyer of stock band saw fences."
Based on your statement "Unfortunately, my budget is very limited and so as before I'm looking at a couple of Craftsman saws" I would think Grizzly is an excellent option. They've been making band saws for a very long time and, in their price range, do an excellent job. Watch out for Craftsman and their specs such as "maximum developed horsepower!" Grizzly consistently gets good marks for power and speed of resawing on their machines. Their horsepower numbers are much more likely to reflect reality than what you see in the Craftsman spec sheet. And...you don't know who will be making Sear's next bandsaw, LOL. I've never seen a Craftsman power tool that didn't have a better competitor out there for the same price. The only exception may be their new hybrid tablesaw.
If I were in your position I'd be comparing the Grizzly saw to the 14" Delta and Jet machines and deciding between them. It's more difficult now than it was a few years ago to compare their's to Delta and Jet, because D & J's intro saws have come down in price, probably to compete with Grizzly, LOL. So, now Grizzly has introduced an upgraded design in that same price range, and their intro-level saws are down around $400. If you have the $$ to get the Grizzly G0457 it's much more likely to serve you long-term that the G0555 intro saw would. Those intro-saws tend to have pot-metal where you'd rather not see it. They serve a purpose, I have the old G1019 saw, but given the financial resources, this new saw would be a much better choice methinks.
Do you anticipate doing alot of resawing? What other kinds of work might you be using the band saw for? Important questions, should have been asked first I guess. Oh well.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If I hadn't decided already, It's now official. My Craftsman-buying days are over. I was really impressed with the G0457 although not knowing a whole obviously. If what you and many others are saying about Grizzly in general, that looks like the aim of my newest (only, truth be told) savings account.I do plan on doing a lot of resawing but also the other obvious things like curved cuts and tennon cheeks, etc. This saw is advertised as resaw greatness but can I assume that it's going to do other things well also?Thanks again for the input. BTW, They do sell that rail and fence system as an after market for other saws.Kurt
As far as I know, the only thing that would affects it's ability to do curved cuts would be if the blade guide bearings don't do well with a really narrow blade (and you needed to use a "really narrow blade").
One thing to keep in mind: when the shipment arrives, examine the box(es) carefully before they're unloaded from the truck. If there's any significant damage, talk it over with the truck driver and seriously consider refusing shipment. These big tools are a royal PITA to ship back, and it's much wiser to simply not take them in the first place if there's damage to the packaging. My personall theory is that if more people would refuse shipment on obviously and significantly damaged packaging, the shippers would be more careful with stuff. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have the G0555 and, while I haven't resawn any 10' long boards, I have done some 8" wide white oak. Mine has no drift with the blade on it (obviously not the one it came with), no taper with the table set to 0 degrees and didn't bog at all. The fence didn't budge and while I will make an extension so it's higher for resawing, it worked fine out of the box. BTW, the same fence is shipped with quite a few other brands of bandsaws.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Are you buying the saw specifically for the resaw capacity? Do you resaw often or is it just something you may use? I don't think the difference in motors will make a significant difference in power. I see the saw is on sale this week. I wonder if the price includes shipping. The saw has a steel frame. The blades are an odd size, you may have to plan ahead if they need to be ordered. The price along with the 8" capacity are attractive but for about another $100 you could have a cast iron frame saw. My experience with Craftsman tools is that they just don't last and only work adequately.
There is a Delta Professional 14" at Amazon for $399. No brainer for me if I was looking for an inexpensive hobby saw.. Add a riser later for 12" resaw capacity, if needed.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006JZZR/qid=1141194163/sr=1-3/ref=pd_bbs_3/102-0834970-4792140?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=228013
I've owned a Craftsman 14" for 3 years and the saw itself is good quality. That being said , everything else leaves a lot to be desired. The 1 1/2hp motor is not a "continuous service" 1.5 hp, it is Craftsmans "peak" rated meaning just before it stalls it might reach that hp. It is actually 3/4hp" continuous service. Big difference.
I didn't notice the fine print under that big "1 1/2HP" logo. Very misleading. The literature says NEMA Rated. NEMA doesn't rate motors at "peak" HP so that's baloney. I replaced it with a 1.5 hp (real hp) and it has plenty of juice.
The fence supplied is useless and wasn't as advertised. (The fence was ordered as they didn't have one with the saw I bought - When I brought this up to Sears reps of all shapes and sizes, I may as well have been talking to a door). Told them to keep it and I welded up a T square beefy fence of my own design (actually based on my cabinet saw Biesmeyer fence). It works great.
Craftsman doesn't offer a riser block for 12" resaw capacity. I installed one from another manufacturer (All made in Taiwan so found a compatable block- still had to make some mods tho) - works great.
I enclosed the stand and remounted the motor - replaced the stamped pulley's for machined and installed a link belt. No vibration.
I did several other minor changes to make it work like a real bandsaw.
Now the saw works great - love it - Craftsman supplied a very expensive cast iron frame and I built the saw - but I'm an experienced steel worker/mechanic as well as a furniture maker, so I could do the changes. I wish I was a more experienced bandsaw purchaser when I was looking into them. Needed one quickly and got what I deserved. Spent more than a new Delta probably.
If you don't want to rebuild the entire saw to make it "work great", save your money and get a Delta, General or Powermatic if you're going to go with a 14" cast iron saw. Otherwise there are other options in the welded steel frame European style ( which might be a better option anyway )
If you're going to do serious furniture making, walk around the Craftsman and keep going - or buy one and send it to me - I'll send you back a saw that "works great" for twice the price - By the way, all of the above is my own fault. Hasn't happened since because I save my money and go top shelf. Thankfully
Jim
Thanks for all the feedback. I had heard of the riser block option from other manufacturers but wasn't sure if I believed it. The info about the h.p. issue was very informative. THANK YOU!
I'm going to take your advise and the others too and save up for a saw that I'm going to be happy with. I certainly don't have the know-how to do all the alterations you spoke of but I am envious of your ability to do it when needed.
On the issue of alterations, I also have a Craftsman table saw (I know, I know) but I'm actually pretty happy with it. I've wanted to swap out the pullies though with machined ones and a link belt for a while now. Are their after-market options are am I up "Craftsman Creek" again? I'll have to get back with the model number if that will help.
Hope to hear back soon.Thanks again,
Kurtp.s. 10450 is an inside joke name because Kurt (my real name) was already taken.
I have the new CM 12" bandsaw and quite frankly have been impressed by the quality, fit and finish of the unit. Set-up was straightforward and very easy. I primarily use my Uni but needed a bandsaw for tight quarters in my garage shop. I comparison shopped the local stores for other band saw and my general impression was the HD and Delta model at Lowes looked like they were made in outer Mongolia. I have had absolutely no problems with the saw. Would it work in a production environment? Probably not, but for occasional use take another look at the 14". My 2cents.
Thanks for the input. I have quite a few Craftsman tools and am basically happy with them. I'm still on the fence so to speak but my gut is telling me to save up for something I can be %100 sure I'll be happy with.
Kurt
Kurt, to answer your question, you should have no problem getting machined pulleys for the table saw. I'm not sure what industrial outlets are around your area but Acklands Grainger would be able to provide the pulley's. The link belting as well. I'm in Alberta Canada so we may have some different suppliers, but any industrial parts supplier or farm centre should carry these. Take the pulley's and belt with you, though, so that the supplier can size the pulleys properly and give you enough link belt with the proper width and length for the pulley. Pulleys can be metric sizes on off shore products and I'm not sure how old your saw is. Could have been made in the States in which case it probably won't be metric. Also the link belt will stretch over time so will need to be readjusted. It will not be very smooth when you run it the first few times as the belt needs to wear in. Make sure that your pulleys are properly aligned - the link belt can tolerate minor misaligned pulleys better than v belts but the closer the better. Any other questions you have let me know - I'm happy to help if I can.
BTW, I had an old Craftsman table saw years ago when I first started out ( a flexible shaft drive unit that was made for a limited time ) and I was pretty happy with it. It's had some drawbacks but was basically a well built machine. I made a lot of furniture with it but it struggled cutting the hardwoods.
As I said at the beginning of my rant yesterday- the basic Bandsaw frame is of pretty good quality. I simply did not spend enough time looking for a heavy enough duty saw for what I needed so it's my own fault. I'm sure for lighter service it's fine . I just didn't want you to make the same mistake I did.
I've been wanting to get all that off my chest for sometime though so I appreciate the opportunity - I feel like a new man
Sorry to all you Craftsman fans out there
Jim
Jim,Again, Thanks! You may have just saved yourself a few hundred dollars from a trip to the psychiatrist. Go ahead and take that money and buy yourself a new tool. Or better yet, send it to me and I'll be able by a band saw (just kidding).I'm not sure if it's the same company or not but we have a few Grainger industrial tool supply stores in this area of central Indiana, U.S. It may not be the same but I'll give them a try anyway. The table saw (model #22104) is new. I've had it about a year but they are still being sold in Sears stores. I acctually wrote another message yesterday concerning the Accusqauare Mule rip fence. I know I can get a Beis that will fit it because the upper end of this basically-the-same saw comes with one. But again, budget gets in the way. Would love to hear your thoughts on this as well if you have the time.Thanks again for all your help. I'm new to the message board but I'll be keeping up and watching for you on it.
Take care,
Kurt
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