I’m reading that a lot of guys have spent a lot of money for various dado set ups that have proved problematic- How do Craftsman (my price range) dados perform in your experience? Thanks- Dave
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Hi Dave
Dado's can cheaply be made using your tables blade (two cuts) and then chiseling the waste out. (CHEAP) Dado set work easier,and faster, but they can be expensive and most don't leave aflat bottom. a router bit works great for the bottom, but again depending on the size can take more time to cut.
I guess it depends on your needs and time.
I've even used those bargain (sale) 8" sets of circle blade sets they sell at the supper stores. and used washers as spacers. It is cheap, removes move wood quickly, but you still need to clean up the bottom with your chisels.
Good luck on your quest for the perfact dado.
Vermont American has a carbide-tipped stacked dado at Lowe's for $40. I haven't bought one, but it might be worth considering.
Dave,
There are two main types of dados, wobble (cheeper) and stacked sets (more expensive). People always talk about the flatness of a dado.... For 80% of all the dados you will make, a flat bottom dosent matter. Only if the dado is visible in the finished product will it matter. So, for example if you are making a book case and the shelves are to be dadoed into the case and then a face frame will cover it up it don't matter, if there is to be no face frame and the edges will be visible then it matters. Really an 8" wobble dado dosen't leave all that bad of a curved bottom. on a 3/4" cut it is only 1/32" or less, the narrower the cut the less visible. The greater issue is tearout. Dados are almost always across the grain and there is a high potiential for tear out. Wobble dados usually have a lot of tear out. Stacked dados are better and a high end stacked dado (over $150) is almost as good as a good crosscut blade. You can get wobble dados for 30 to 50 bucks, decient stacked dados are 80 to 120. The craftsman dados are availible in all these price points. In fact I believe that they have a $150 model as well. I would recomend you get a Freud set HD and Lowes sell a Freud stacked set fo $80 or so. routers do OK but unless the bit is brand new and high quality it will leave fuzzy edges, even a good one will leave fuzz in difficult stock like birch ply and poplar. pluss once the dado is set up you can use the fence scale and make multiple dados with no set up inbetween.
By the way I use the top of the line Freud set that cost $200. I use a high end set mostly because they last longer between resharpening, and they have less tearout.
have fun,
Mike
I purchased a 6" stacked dado from Sears, a Craftsman, and the cut was extremely uneven on the bottom of the dado. It was totally unacceptable, even for me, a new hobbyist. It just didn't seem like it should be so rough. Of course it only cost $35.00. I returned it. I then purchased an "Avenger" 6" stacked dado online for the same price and it cuts almost perfect dados. The bottom of the dado is plenty smooth for me. In fact I don't see how it could get much smoother. And the sides are smooth and straight. I saw the same blade in the new Rockler magazine for $79.00. Got mine at http://www.toolpeddler.com
Frank
Couple years back I picked up a Sears Excalibur 8" dual blade wobbler for about 80 bucks(Ithink they threw in a 10" combo blade with it). As the others say, you'll never get a perfect flat bottom. It's ok but I should have waited and bought a stacked set. I never could get the darned thing to cut a full 3/4" wide dado,always had to clean it up.
Thanks for all your input- Hearing it from the horse's mouth saves a lot of dough and a lot of trips to town-
I think you should continue to save your money and buy something (anything) other than Craftsman.
Thanks for your thought- What's been your own experience with Craftsman dados?
How much is the Craftsman dado set (only catalog I don't own, LOL)?
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
From about $35 up- But that isn't the point, at least not anymore- I've heard unhappy things aabout Freud, American Vermont, Avenger, and a more, in all price ranges- Same kinds of problems- What I wanna know is, what's with the bad vibes specifically re Craftsman?
Dave -
In my opinion, Craftsman gets a bad rap that's only partially deserved. I've used Craftsman tools for over 40 yrs and most of them have been quite satisfactory. In fact, I still have Craftsman mechanics tools that I bought in the early '60's.
As I see it, Craftsman woodworking tools were always aimed at the mass market. "Out of the box", their power tools weren't as good as their more specialized competitors - but they weren't as expensive, either. They were, however, good enough for most hobbyists and I would bet that many of the people on this forum got their start on a Craftsman 10" table saw. - lol
One thing that is often overlooked is that even a Craftsman table saw is capable of a high level of performance. You have to spend some time and money to get them "dialed in" and upgrade the fence and miter gauge, but when you do you have a very good saw.
I believe that another factor is the explosion of the "do it yourself" industry during the past 10-15 yrs. Craftsman got left in the dust when companies like Makita, Hitachi, DeWalt, Porter-Cable, etc. started selling good quality tools to the new mass market and they're just now beginning to catch up. The new Craftsman cabinet saw is apparently as good as anything made by the competition.
Okay, that's it for you guys- I'm gunna buy a Craftsman dado, then you'll be sorry- You'll see- Just wait....
I've got no particular problem with Craftsman either. They're usually not my first choice, but I've got a fair amount of their stuff with no major complaints. I didn't tell him not to get a Craftsman stack dado, just not to get a Craftsman wobbler. I've personally got a Forest Dado King, but that's way out of the range he's shooting for.
I love the smell of sawdust in the morning.
Thanks for putting things in perspective, Dave- I was beginning to wonder at the price of admission to woodworking-
That's just my take on the situation, Dave. I've also had some Craftsman tools that I shouldn't have carried out of the store. In the early 80's, I was moving out of the total rookie phase and begining to get more serious about my woodworking. I bought some Craftsman benchtop tools that were NEVER worth a damn. They were replaced eventually and sat around the garage for several years until I took them to Goodwill. On the other hand, I have (and just used) a Craftsman router that my wife got me in '75. I couldn't count the miles of routing I've done with it and - except for a switch replacement a couple of years ago - it's never let me down. I have a DeWalt plunge router that I use for heavy work but that old Craftsman is still my "go-to" router for simple stuff like rounding over edges.
I guess that I'm saying that you shouldn't get too hung up on brand names. If you're just starting, buy what you can afford and learn how to get the most out of it. When you've figured out what kind of things you most enjoy doing, you'll also know what kind of tool will work best for you.
I was just trying to get an idea of what your hoped-for price range was.
Just for clarification, you can find "unhappy" statements about any tool if you look around enough. I was more than a little surprised to see Freud lumped in the post along with American Vermont. Freud makes excellent blades and dado sets and they are to AV what Mercedes is to Kia, LOL!
OK, on to Craftsman. I have experience with the Excalibur blade only, and have read a bit on their stacked dado compared to others such as CMT, Freud, Forrest. The Excalibur was a big step up on the little bench top saw I was using at the time (4 years ago?), but for much less money I later upgraded to a Freud combination blade that cut circles around the Excalibur. It is a much truer blade that leaves an exceptionally smooth surface. (I moved the Excalibur to my Jet saw and then replaced it with the Freud; the Excalibur is collecting dust somewhere.)
From what I've read, their stacked dado set doesn't really stand up to the competition. Sears doesn't have anything invested in trying to compete with companies such as Freud, CMT or Forrest. Their marketing and ubiquitousness (whoa!) drives their sales to people who aren't as smart as you are (as you seek information about theirs and other's blades). Their blades are made by whomever gives them the best contract I suspect, and they can change suppliers at any point. The other companies manufacture their own blades, have a long-term interest in providing quality and establishing a reputation among discriminating woodworkers. Their design, engineering, production and quality control are going to be much better than Craftsman as a result.
One thing that would make this whole conversation easier to conduct would be to completely eliminated wobble dados from the conversation.
Just for the record, I also own the Freud 6" safety dado and am extremely pleased with the cuts it produces. You asked for details about the C. dado, and obviously I can't provide them, but the usual suspects are splintering and lack of a flat bottom. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Ubiq..., ubiq..., what? Actually, "price range" has always seemed arbitrary to me, while quality, whatever its level, is specific- I've paid for more than I've received more times than I care to count, despite the fact I purchased within my "price range"-I traded in horses for years... Anyway, thank you for your thoughts-
In your original post you wrote
"How do Craftsman (my price range) dados perform in your experience?"
I was just trying to find out exactly what your price range is.At this point, I'm really not sure what it is you want to know or get feedback on, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
My wife just pointed out how I managed to confuse things in my original post- When I wrote "my price range", I was merely indicating I wasn't in the market for an expensive anything- I was wondering about others' experiences with Craftsman dados, either type, because they're obviously in an entirely different (lower) price range- Thank you, Forestgirl, and everyone else, too- I'm getting a case of "information fatigue", so maybe I should just go get a dado and see how it turns out-
Leave it to us wives, eh? LOL!
If you're just making utility projects, a less-than-perfect dado cut is no big deal, as long as it's functional. As far as "flat bottoms" go you can always clean up with a router or a hand plane. Splintering isn't very fixable, but again if it's utility stuff, you may not care.
Let us know how it goes! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Boy, you guys just love to beat up on Craftsman, don't ya? Well, here's my take:
Have had the Excalibur dado set for 7 years - works just fine, although I haven't tried to cut a 3/4" dado with it, for reasons that will be explained momentarily;
Current Excalibur cost - around $85;
It's essentially two wobblers with a width adjustment dial that can be adjusted while still on the arbor;
For what I use it for - jigs, dados where the bottom flatness isn't ultra-critical, it's fine, and has been;
I've had one - that's right, one - unsatisfactory Craftsman product - an aluminum and plastic piece-of-junk bar clamp that wasn't worth the gas to take it home (and yes, before you tell me, I was a jerk to buy an aluminum and plastic bar clamp in the first place...);
When I need a precision dado, I go to my trusty router dado jig, built from plans in the July/August edition of ShopNotes (No.76) - http://www.shopnotes.com/main/sn76-toc.html. But don't trust me. You can see the video of how the jig works here- http://www.shopnotes.com/main/onlineextras.html. It'll handle any dado width from 1/2" to 2" - You could make one to cut 1/4" dadoes too, but the jig's capacity is a function of the router and bit you used to produce it - I used a 1/2", 1/2" shank bit for mine. This thing will produce exact results, as you'll see in the video, because you size the dado with the shelf or other piece which is intended to fit into the dado. Trust me - this is one jig worth making if you do any kind of casework, especially bookshelves, and it's well worth the cost of the back issue if you don't already have it.
Now fer Pete's sake, stop slamming Sears/Craftsman. They've never claimed to be the best in power tools, have a wider selection of WW tools and accessories than the home improvement stores, and still offer a lifetime warranty on all of their hand tools. They offer good value for money. But if only L-N and Powermatic/Laguna/Oliver etc. are good enough for you (and after all, who doesn't have that kind of money?), then Sears and Craftsman aren't for you. On balance, their stuff doesn't suck, and sometimes, it's a better value than some of the names I mentioned.
Respectfully submitted,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
"How much is the Craftsman dado set (only catalog I don't own, LOL)?"
WHAT??? No Sears Catalog????? Whaddaya use in the outhouse, then???
;o)
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Dave,
OK, I'm gonna get some grief from folks here, but sometimes I try really inexpensive stuff just for the heck of it. A few months ago, I picked up an 8" stacked dado set while at Harbor Freight. It cost $20 (on sale); cuts up to 13/16 and has brass shims. It doesn't cut perfectly flat bottoms, but the dado is plenty good for glue-ups. I've used hardwood edge-banding on the projects where I've used dados, so they don't show anyway.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Dang, Arnold, do your neighbors know you step out of line from time to time and look for a good deal? You're making me feel at home- Thanks-
Moi?
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
The first dado blade I owned was a Craftsman wobbler. I've still got it, but it's pretty much relegated to dadoing or notching out lumber-class (2x4's, etc) projects where tolerances don't need to be as tight. On nicer stuff, anything that doesn't make flat bottom dados is a PITA. A variance of 1/32" from flat on one dado doesn't sound like much, but with matching dado's on both sides of a case, that adds up to a 1/16th" difference and can be enough to make fitting fixed shelves tricky. The result can be things that go together just a little bit off square, or slightly bowed out cases. Somebody else also mentioned the rougher cut with a wobbler. Go with a stacked set even if you have to spend a bit more.
I love the smell of sawdust in the morning.
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