I am finally starting a shop and need to purchase a table saw as my first piece of equipment. After reading several reviews I have narrowed the models down to the General 50-185ML or the Craftsman 22114. I was hoping to get some comments from other owners out there. I have about $700.00 to spend.
Thanks for your help.
Replies
Last April I went from the GI 50-185 to the Sears 22124. The GI is one of the best contractor saws around, and there's not another one I'd replace it with. General was great to deal with and I miss being part of that prestigious company. The 22124 offered advantages over all the traditional contractor saw pitfalls...better DC, smaller footprint, no motor hanging out the back, cabinet mounted trunnions for easy blade alignment, etc. What I never expected was the improvement in stability due to it weighing over 40% more than the GI. The 22124 has a larger table area, a comparable fence, a comparable motor, and an excellent stock blade. The GI has nicer handwheels and a more substantial stock miter gauge. The 22124 has a better stock drive belt...it's a poly-v serpentine style belt and it transfers power better than the longer standard v-belt...combine that with the shorter distance and the ability to get the alignment dead nuts, and the 22124 feels stronger.
I know the 22124 has a few advantages over the 22114...which would make the choice between the two saws your considering a bit tougher. Obviously the GI had a better fence, but for most other functions, I'd give the advantage to the 22114. If $700 was your top limit, I'd probably get the 22114, see how I liked the fence, and maybe consider an upgrade later on. With proceeds from selling the stock fence and picking up a good $230 blade, the upgrade wouldn't be all the severe...might be moot point if you like the stock fence anyway. BTW - the 22114 is on sale now until Saturday for $580 with 2 free blades to Craftsman Club members.
That said, there's been discussion at Woodnet about the 22124 being on sale for $699 at the new Sears Essentials stores. Members are saying the Sears will price match the Sears Essentials stores. Here's a quote from a discussion that may be of some help:
"I just got off the phone with the operations mgr. at the Tustin store. She said that all Sears stores should price match them, and that if they wouldn't, have them call her. She also told me that the sign on the display says that the price is good until 01/28/05.
2505 EL CAMINO REAL
TUSTIN, CA 92782
(714)481-8100"
<http://www.epinions.com/content_184778395268>
My vote would go for the 22124 if you can swing that kind of a deal.
Edited 1/11/2006 6:59 pm ET by scotty
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I have to say, I cannot even begin to imagine comparing anything power tool wise from Sears to anything else. Particularly a General. Sears can't support much of anything beyond a few years. That won't be a problem with general. I have a General 3 hp, single ph. Fantastic saw. The Sears might work today, and even be a nice saw. But, if you want service in the long run, well, I can't imagine why you would want the Sears. All, of course, is IMHO.
Alan - planesaw
Hi Alan - The comparison is General "International" to one of Sears best gems, not to a Canadian made General cabinet saw, which I would own in a heartbeat if given the opportunity...the 650 has been a dream saw to me since I first saw one. The GI is a Taiwanese contractor saw...one of the best in it's class, but the contractor saw category as a whole is becoming rather an obsolete class IMO as many of the hybrids offer solutions to the design and usage issues with any contractor saw. When facing a decision of spending $700-$900 on a good contractor saw or hybrid, IMO some of the hybrids offer significant advantages depending on the deal you can swing...GI, Grizzly, Delta, Jet, DeWalt, and Craftsman offer them. Orion makes the new Sears hybrid/cabinet saw. They're a group of former Delta employees that went off on their own after Pentair bought Delta. Their service has been great, and their products in general are receiving high praise. They're not as proven or as prestigious as General/GI, but beyond the "Craftsman" emblem is an impressive machine that many owners are finding to be a great step from a contractor saw. Not on par with a full blown 3hp commercial grade cabinet saw, but offers many of the same advantages to a semi-serious hobby shop...especially if 220v is not available.
After reading several reviews I have narrowed the models down to the General 50-185ML or the Craftsman 22114.
The reviews on both of these saw has been great. I can speak to the quality of the General International equipment, I've got a shop full of them.
I own the GI 50-220. The General Hybrid. I love it. The cabinet base is great for dust collection, seems a bit more stable than some of the contractor saws I've used, takes up a little less space (no motor sticking out the back), and of course when people come to the shop it has a little more of the all important 'wow' factor.
So if I were you I'd go with the hybrid saw. The Craftsman seems to get good reviews, and has a good value factor to it.
Hi don't know if you have bought a saw as yet,but if you havn't, RUN from craftsmen saw's.I know of two folks who bought there best model and less than 2 years later the motors went out on them.I bought there laser miter saw and the laser broke on it 6 mo.later and they said that was not covered under warrenty.Unfortunately craftsmen power tools have gone to the dogs over the last few years.They talk a great game,but that's about all it is with them,a game.Good luck in your woodworking.
Ken
Sheesh......Seems Craftsman bashing just keeps running rampant.....As Scott pointed out the OEM is important to know when purchasing from the Craftsman line at Sears. The miter saw you bought was likely Ryobi made. 'Nuff said. Orion (as well as Dewalt and Bosch) make a very good product for Sears. I own a 22124 and find it to be a great saw. My latest Craftsman purchase was the router combo kit made by Bosch. Nice thing about this combo is that it accepts both Bosch and Craftsman accessories. Anyway, given the choice, I'd go with the Craftsman. Scotty summed up the reasons why quite well.
In peace, Todd
Hey how's it goin.Sorry about the bashing,but it I guess some folks get the wrong side of good luck with some tools.You said that the miter saw I bought could have been made by ryobi.Would there be a way I could tell this?All the info just says craftsmen.I will admit that this was the first laser saw they came out with.The laser as you probly know actually holds the blade on.The housing cracked on it and when I took it back they tried to tell me that I must have put it on wrong????????????I'v been working around machinery fo over 40 years.Called sears forget it.Plus I also had bought there contractor model table saw,can't remember what model and it was nothing but a pain and the motor also went up on it in less than two years.Around 600.00 bucks.Gave it away.Again sorry about the bashing,but in the last five years I have heard to many bad things about sears power tool's.I am glad you got a good one.Take care and be safe.
Ken
Hi Ken - My Sears CMS is made by Ryobi and I don't like it b/c it's not accurate, and no adjustments I make seem to help....it's fine for chopping framing lumber. Ryobi made the Sears contractor saws from ~ 1997 to 2004, then Orion made the infamous "zipcode" series for them. Ryobi still makes many things for Sears including some of the other table saws. Prior to 1997 it was Emerson which became pretty much the same contractor saw Ridgid produced that is now made by Ryobi again under the Ridgid name. The first three numbers of the model number indicate the manfufacturer. I think, but am not certain, that Emerson is 113, and that Ryobi is 315. FWIW, I wouldn't have been happy with Sears either if they told me what they told you.
Edited 1/19/2006 4:02 pm ET by scotty
Hi Scotty~
You're corrrect, the way to tell who the OEM is by the first three of the model number. 315 (&316) is Ryobi. 152 is Orion. 130&135 is Bosch. 900 is Dewalt.
Emerson (after losing the Sears contract to Ryobi) landed the contract with Home Depot to make their house brand - Ridgid. Initially the original Ridgid tools - the grey ones were US made. Long story short a company called TTI came along and purchased Ridgid, Ryobi and Milwaukee tools and thus TTI got the Craftsman contract for most of Sears tools which are made by the Ryobi division of TTI. There was actually a time when Ryobi made quality tools. Anyway....
Orion (and soon we'll be seeing alot of higher end Bosch made Craftsman tools) is one one of the best things to happen to Craftsman tools in years and their hybrid is a well built saw.
PS: Scotty - what are you doing up so early? Did the kids get out of Orion's cage?
ToddD said: "PS: Scotty - what are you doing up so early? Did the kids get out of Orion's cage? "
...And another day of druggery begins...the kids are still asleep in their cage...I"ll leave that to the wife! I'm a fan of the "early in, early out" philosophy....less traffic, better parking! :-)
Morn Scotty
97 to 04 would have been the time frame that those table saws I mentioned were made. As for the miter saw,it works great except for the laser light housing being broke.Oh I forgot to say that they kindly offered to sell me a new one for about 60.00 bucks.Have a great day.
Ken
I have a Sears Radial arm saw., I mention radial arm saw just to talk about sears. I have had it for 16 yrs and have made many things with, but it has become that I can't trust the acuracy anymore. I have just bought a General 50-220C Table saw( but have not picked it up yet) I have heard tremendious things about it. Rears is very expensive unless u get it on a really good sale.
Tks Mark
16 Years isn't a short time... I have a few craftsman power tools, (a drill, circular saw) for the price they were good investments. When I was purchasing my saw I went to look at the craftsman saw available (there were no hybrids at the time), and wasn't impressed. But apparently the quality is up...
I have the same saw. I can not say enough good things about it. I wish I could have fit the longer fence rails in the shop, but life is life. I've been using it steady for about 8 months now. I don't regret the purchase.
The only thing I can think of is that I haven't been able to find a good aftermarket splitter for it yet.
Buster
Thank you to all have replied and your great advice. I tried to get one of those sweet deals on the Craftsman 22124 but the local guys refused to match the price. So I am going to keep my eye on sales for a little while and if the Craftsman does not come into my price range then I will go for the General. Thanks.
I've checked out the GI a few times at Woodcraft and it looks really nice. Just to help confuse your decision, Grizzly has a new hyrid (G0478) that's fairly similar to the GI 50-220CM-1. It's $695 plus $85 s/h. Also, Amazon currently has some amazing deals on Delta and PC saws....the Delta 36-715 hybrid w/T2 fence would be $590 delivered with all the current promotions applied. $110 off in instant "Power Saw Savings", plus free s/h and $100 of a $500 Delta/PC purchase if you have the two codes from the back of the current Amazon tool flyer. The same promotions would put the 36-717 w/Biese fence at $740 delivered.
Archtekt,
Keep your eyes open for deals on the 22124. Sears seems to have a promo every couple of weeks, and signing up for the "Craftsman Club" will deliver the promo notifications to your e-mail.
Don't know if you are tied to the $700 figure, but I scored a 22124 at 0% financing for 12 months by opening a new Sears account...
I can't speak for the General, but am aware of good reviews and happy customers from what I have read online. No one locally deals in or had one that I could look at, so I focused on the DeWalt, Jet, Delta and Craftsman hybrids.
I decided on the 22124 after months of research and verifying that this is essentially the same machine as the new Delta Hybid. The cast iron wings are larger on the Craftsman (12" vs. 10'"), and there are no legs on the extension table, but the 1 3/4 hp motor, professional quality Biesemier fence, good dust extraction, and delivery (the crate was almost 500 lb!) were the "tipping points".
The rest of my shop is largely Delta, Dewalt, PC, Milwaukee, and Makita, as I hate to buy anything twice. I think that you will find the Craftsman 22124 to be a worthy contender.
By financing and holding on to some cash, I upgraded the miter gauge and added a Forrest Dado-King and a Woodworker II. Great set up, and am very happy with my descision.
Best of luck, and let us all know what you choose.
STEELHEAD
Also, on the Craftsman, the trunnions are cabinet-mounted, a superior design to the Delta.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
I have a GI 50-220 the so-called hybrid. Have had it for only about 3 months now but wish I had a saw like that for years. Have had two contractor saws before and really like the cabinet style with the improved dust control and less sapce. Its a lot quieter as well. Mine came with the General T-Square fence wich is a small version of a Biesmiere (sp). So far NO complaints at all.
Bill
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