Replies

1. 
   Walker1 | Oct 12, 2005 07:32pm | #1

      I think that 2006 Tool Buying Guide is for the most part a complete joke.

            The Craftsmen 22124 was tested against contractor saws, not other Hybrids, like the Delta (and yes It was available during the test),or the General International, as well as many others. The test should have included more Hybrids, or the Craftsmen should have been excluded. 

        I also noticed in the SCMS test the Bosch was given top rating, while the Makita wasn't included. These tests were not shoot outs of similar machines to see which ones come out on top, It was smply a list of the companies willing to pay to have there machines advertised in this magazine.

      I subsribe to FWW, and FHB, and I have to say I'm glad I only thumbed through the 2006 TBG, and put it back on the shelf, and didn't waste a even a dime on it.

                           Cheers.                         Walker1 

1. 
   DanWelty | Oct 12, 2005 10:19pm | #2

   Walker1...

   You sound pretty knowledgble...laying aside the FWW issue, which of the two table saws would you consider buying, the Delta Hybrid or Craftsman Professional? (If they're pretty much identical spec-wise)

    

   THX>>>DAN

1. 
   Walker1 | Oct 13, 2005 12:23am | #3

       Dan;   I would choose the Craftsmen, even though the specs are the same because it has a few features that make it stand out from the delta, and I think the customer service, and warranty support would be better from Sears.

                             Cheers.                         Walker1

2. 
   Knotscott | Oct 13, 2005 01:06am | #6

   Hi Walker - I haven't seen the FWW Tool Guide this year. While I do think the 22124 is a good tool, I don't put much stock into any mag recommendations. It's fun if they say what you want to hear or if they recommend your tool, but it doesn't make them any more credible. Regardless of how many times they deny it, money talks. Period. Think about the table saws getting the most positive press right now, then think about who sells the most saws.....see a correllation? ;)

3. 
   MatthewSchenker | Oct 14, 2005 01:53pm | #9

   Walker1,
   I took a look at the 2006 Tool Buying Guide at Barnes & Noble yesterday. It does seem rather paltry. It's full of superficial statements about classes of tools without really giving any details about which ones are good, and why. Several times, I got to the end of a section about a certain tool and thought, "That's all they are saying?" I could have written this book in a week.

   Edited 10/14/2005 6:54 am ET by MatthewSchenker

2. 
   woodk2 | Oct 13, 2005 12:34am | #4

   One positive the Craftsman has is cabinet mounted trunions.  Don't believe the others have this feature.  It is commonly thought of as an advantage. 

   However, I did see a recent post stating that table mounted trunions were actually superior.  But keep in mind his was the only such post I have ever seen, heard, or read of in 8 years on forums, magazines, books, etc...

3. 
   Knotscott | Oct 13, 2005 01:01am | #5

   Hi Dan - I've heard and read several unsubstantiated claims that the Delta was made by Orion, but have never gotten confirmation from a reference source. That said, after owning the 22124, pawing over a Delta, and glancing through it's on-line manual, I can tell you that they share alot of parts.

   The trunnions on the 22124 are indeed mounted to the cabinet, and having gone from a good contractor saw with traditional trunnions to the cabinet mounted trunnions, the alignment on the 22124 is considerably easier. It's about a 7 minute job vs 1-2 hours, and the 4 bolts are very accessible vs reaching way up under the table on a contractor saw. The whole philosophy of aligning the table to the blade makes more sense to me that trying to align the whole trunnion carriage to the table.

   The Delta and the 22124 share the same motor, motor mount, serpentine drive belt, switch, cabinet, throat plate, dust port, blade wrenches, and several other things....even the arbors & arbor nuts look the same. The 22124 has 12" wings and 4-bolts, I think the Delta has 10" wings and 3 bolts, so those are not the same, and some of the accessories are different.

   I've been very happy with my 22124. The things I like about it over a contractor saw are the stability due to the mass (425#...it feels like a cabinet saw when you push on it), the smaller footprint, the easy alignment, serpentine belt, and the improved DC...the Leitz blade is very good too. I got it at an insane price. For full price ($1k), I'd have gone with a Griz 1023 or Shop Fox 3hp cabinet saw, but total cost would run close to $1200. Actually, I'm pretty satisfied with the power of the 22124. At $850 the 22124 is a good value IMO...better if your BIL can get 10% off a sale price of $850. I think either the Delta or the GI hybrids would offer most of the things I like about the 22124, except for the alignment. Orion and Sears were great to deal with. Pick the one you like.

   http://www.epinions.com/content_184778395268

4. 
   mudman | Oct 13, 2005 05:19pm | #7

   I'd go with the craftsman. And I am not generally a Craftsman fan at all. However this is a good saw and you can get it at a great price if you wait till it is on sale and use any discounts availible. There were 2 or 3 on this forum who got the saw for $300 off!!. If something goes wrong or you don't like the saw you can always take it back to Sears. You will not likely have that option with Delta.

   Mike

5. 
   WhatKnot | Oct 13, 2005 07:19pm | #8

   Both Saws are O.K. They are certainly an improvement over the previous versions of hybrid saws we saw early on in the game. However, one hybrid stands out above them all and that is the General model 50-200CL-M1.

   The Delta is being made in China (at last rumor) and rumor has it that all of the Delta QC guys were let go after the Black and Decker takeover. Those guys were hired by Shop Fox (aka Woodstock Intl. (aka Grizzly)).

   Of note, it really makes no difference where the products are manufactured. It all has to do with who owns the patent on the better manufacturing process and who has the better on-site Quality Control.

   The General International Saw is made in Taiwan and these plants tend to be more seasoned than the chinese plants. This is a testament to their outstanding on-site QC folks and the double (UL and CE) standards that they strive to meet. 

   You are correct in assuming that Craftsman is a branded name and not a manufacturer. All of their products are usually of good quality as long as you remember that the market that they are targeting is primarily home owners.

6. 
   Ribeye | Oct 14, 2005 08:29pm | #10

   I've owned a Craftsman 22124 (full cab w/ Biese fence) for a year now. It's seen a LOT of use and I become more and more pleased with it as tme goes by. 

   There are many similiarities between the Craftsman and the Delta saws -- and there are several major differences as well.  The Craftsman's trunions are mounted to the cabinet -- just as the "big" cabinet saws. The Delta's trunions are mounted to the top -- just as you'll find with Contractors' saws.  Pick your poison here, but realize that alignment is FAR easier to do when the trunions attach to the cabinet.

   If you can wait for a sale at Sears, wait for the Craftsman Club discount (in addition to a sale) and get that relative/employee's extra discount all at the same time, you can walk out with one he** of a da** good saw at a bodacious (and enviable) price.  (I got mine gor $820 including sales tax, a three-year extended warranty and delivery.)

   -- Steve

   Enjoy life & do well by it;

   (it might well be the only chance you get.)

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/14/2005 1:33 pm by Putzger

1. 
   DanWelty | Oct 15, 2005 01:07am | #11

   Thanks to everyone who's replied here. It's pretty obvious that at least this group of woodworkers thinks the Craftsman is definitely the way to go....As soon as the planets are lined up (sale at Sears, Craftsman discount, Brother-in-law discount, etc), it looks like I own a new table saw. 

   My only issues to date: I wanted to join the Craftsman Club. The website says you have to visit the store. The store said all you had to do was call the number in the back of the catalog. Once you call that number, they say it will be 6 to 8 weeks till you get the card that gets you the discount.  I'm still pretty young, but 6 to 8 weeks is a long time in a woodworker's life. Now that I've done all the research, I'm totally unmotivated to use my old Craftsman TS....and remember...

   "so much wood, so little time..."

   Thanks to everyone on this thread.....DAN

1. 
   Knotscott | Oct 15, 2005 02:25am | #12

   You should still be able to use your C-Club membership even if the card hasn't arrived. Just explain and have them input your phone #.

1. 
   DanWelty | Oct 15, 2005 07:33am | #13

   Scotty....Thanks for the tip...I'll try it.

    

   THX>>DAN

2. 
   kdbeyer | Oct 21, 2005 04:07am | #14

   Hello,

   I have been following the discussion and was wondering if the next saw down in this series #22114 has the same cabinet mounted trunion system as the 22124 you have all been discussing?

   I know the other differences are a 1.5 hp vs. 1.75 hp motor, the fence, 3/4 lenght cabinet.  Other major differences to look out for?

   Thanks,

   Keith

1. 
   DanWelty | Oct 21, 2005 05:21am | #15

   Keith...these differences are news to me...I thought it was just a cheaper fence. Good research....anyone else able to answer his questions?

    

   THX>>DAN

   "So little time, so much wood!"

2. 
   Knotscott | Oct 21, 2005 08:53pm | #16

   The trunnions on all three models are the same, the motor mounts and serpentine drive belts are the same too.  The cabinets on the 22104 & 22114 are 3/4 length enclosures with short legs vs the 22124's full cabinet.  As stated, the fences are different, the miter gauge on the 22114 and 22124 have some features that the 22104's doesn't, the blade in the 22124 is a Leitz, the wings on the 22124 are 12" vs what I think are 10" on the others (not positive), plus there's the outfeed table and laminate extension table on the 22124.  In addition to the extra 1/4hp on the 22124's motor, I've heard that it has a slightly higher duty rating too.  I think the 22124 costs another $10 or $15 bucks too. ;-)