Does anyone have any good luck with craftsman power tools? My table saw lasted just over two years and my router just was repaired a month ago and is broken again. Neather tool was over worked or abused.
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Hmmmmm, are you fishing for a rant, LOL? Plenty of naysayers here re: Craftsman tools. In general, I stay away from their power tools. Do a search on Craftsman and you'll find plenty of input, a little positive, more negative. The one exception may be their new table saw. Only time will tell.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
No I am not looking for anything. I just really wanted to know that it wasn't just me. A lot of good money wasted not to mention confidence. I wish snap on made woodworking tools.
"I wish snap on made woodworking tools." Hah, I know for sure if they did, I couldn't afford them, LOL! But they certainly would be fine tools! Perhaps Festool is the "Snap-On of the woodworking world."
To summarize my postings in the past on Craftsman power tools, they usually cut corners, if you look at the specs thoroughly you will find shortcomings compared to other tools at the same price point; they are not a tool company, so they don't have the investment in being consistent that companies like Porter Cable, Milwaukee, etc., have; parts and service can be a huge headache down the road from your purchase.
I've always harbored the suspicion that many of their tools sales are made because people have Sears credit cards. Makes it way too easy to go with Craftsman when money would be better spent on a better company. Sad part is, the tool can fail long before the price has been paid!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 1/30/2005 2:58 pm ET by forestgirl
People buy them for the same reason that I did, don't know brand names.Everyone has used some sort of craftsman tool at some point in there life. The craftsman name has been around for ever and that is what you end up trusting.
Many years ago I had a friend who built his house with Craftsman tools. He didn't have a lot of money; Craftsman was all he could afford. At that time they had a no questions lifetime guarantee, so he just replaced his circular saw every 4 or 5 months when he burned it out. If I recall correctly he got a little more milage out of the drills.
To summarize my postings in the past on Craftsman power tools, they usually cut corners, if you look at the specs thoroughly you will find shortcomings compared to other tools at the same price point; they are not a tool company, ...
All in all I doubt that you'll get any argument about that for a "Craftsman" labelled power tool. But those tools with the "Craftsman Professional" label on them are are a definite "cut above".
Just as one example, consider the Router. The router with the "Professional" label is made by Bosch. The others with the "Craftsman" label are Ryobi tools. -- Steve
Enjoy life & do well by it;
http://www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/
I've heard plenty of differing opinions on Craftsman tools. I wouldn't go to them for big important purchases, but i had a craftsman 16.8v drill that performed just fine under pretty heavy regular use for a year and a half before i dropped it off of a rooftop. I aslo have a set of 20 craftsman carbide router bits which have seen plenty of use in hard, knotty materials and mdf and after two years are all still sharp and accurate. I aslo just bought a craftsman dado blade half price, knowing it wouldn't be premium quality, but figuring it would be fine for rougher work, and that's just what it is. It doesn't have perfectly flat bottoms, but it cuts pretty clean and accurately width-wise. I've used other craftsman tools, like a router and chopsaw and circular saw, and the general feeling i get from their tools is that they're not bad for the money (especially since they're constantly on sale - don't pay full price for anything at sears!) but they won't hold a candle to most power tools in the same catergory made by companies like dewalt or bosch or the like. If you're on a tight budget, you can often get tools that are far cheaper, yet will perform better and have better warranty service than a lot of the other inexpensive brands - and then when you do upgrade, you have backup tools that you feel happy to lend to your clumsy brother in law. But if you want pro quality, for the most part i don't think craftsman is the way to go.
Jesse David
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before," Bokonon tells us. "He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
Edited 1/30/2005 2:19 pm ET by JesseDavid
Edited 1/30/2005 2:20 pm ET by JesseDavid
The Craftsman tools I bought 30 years ago are still working fine.
The Craftsman tools I bought 3 years ago are broke, burnt, beat-up, bad deals. Any other brand name will get my money first.
FWIW, I bought a Craftsman then-top-of-the-line table saw in '96, when I recognized I needed a whole bunch of things to get started as a serious amateur woodworker. I could buy a Unisaw, a 12" jointer and a 15" planer, or I could buy something like 35 or 40 different things, both power tools and hand tools, for the same price.
My TS works just fine, probably because I know it so well. It has no runout on the arbor, cast iron extensions on both sides, and because it's a contractor and not a cabinet saw, I'm sure it makes more noise and has more vibration than a cabinet version. I've had very good luck with my Craftsman tools, the vast majority of which are hand tools and have a lifetime guarantee. Would I buy another Craftsman TS? Probably not, unless the new cabinet/hybrid everybody's raving about turns out to be the real deal; but even then I have to admit that I covet a Powermatic 66, Unisaw or some of the other top performers. Still, I won't need to replace my TS for a long while - when I do, it'll be because I want to.
Btw, ForestGirl, I'm not sure I'd agree that Sears isn't a tool company - they haven't been a power tool company, but if their latest entry is an indication, they may be trying move in that direction. And I like your theory about Sears credit card holders, although I'm not one. But if you've been making hand tools for decades with no-questions-asked lifetime guarantees, I'd say that makes you a tool company, even if not in the upper quality range.
So, there's another token check in the positive column...
Cheers,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
You mean Sears has tools made for them, not making tools, right?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"You mean Sears has tools made for them, not making tools, right?"
I guess that's true, and in the end that probably does bring some question to the definition of "tool company" or "tool business." Wilke doesn't make any of their own tools, but they're certainly a tool company/business. And the Yorkcraft YC-6J jointer I purchased from them is the same tool as the Delta X5 6" jointer (same manufacturer, same features, different color). I have to admit, I was surprised to find that Delta didn't make all of it's own machinery, and if they're not a tool company, or in the tool business, who is?
Btw, how do people find out about the true origins of some of these tools? I never heard of Orion before - that just may reflect my relative inexperience, but I don't think I've ever seen an ad for any of their tools. But even if they do market under their own name, is there some source prospective purchasers use to find out who actually manufactured a piece of equipment, or is it just a conglomeration of various sources like the magazines, forum users, distributors, etc.?Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
I let the context specify for me power tools. Next time, I'll be more up-front about that adjective. BTW, I still will pick up the occasional old Craftsman power tool -- I have a combination belt/disc sander and a new-in-box grinder with fancy tool rest, both picked up at estate auctions. Just wouldn't buy their new power tools, with the possible exception of the new table saw.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I've had a number of Craftsman tools during my life and haven't had any problem with them. The only things I've replaced have been a contractor saw and belt/disc sander; replaced them because I wanted newer, more powerful versions; they were still working fine when I sold them. I've got a circular saw, a couple of corded drills, a jigsaw and a drill press that work just fine anytime I need to use them. In general, I take care of my tools and don't beat the daylights out of them when I use them.
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
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Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
I've got some good and some bad. My $50 router is 5 years old and running strong. The CMS has been a disappointment but works. My 14.4v cordless drill seems fine, although the batteries charge life is about average. My circ saw is a beast....nearly 20 years old.
Some of the new stuff is very good. The new ~ $200 router is a Bosch 1617 wearing red. The three Orion made table saws are looking impressive in their price ranges and are a HUGE improvement over the Ryobi made stuff from the past 7 or 8 years. Orion also makes their 6" jointer which gets high marks from owners, although I don't care much for the fence support.
Sears markets and sells alot of tools. The sheer numbers of sold units are likely to result in a higher number of defects....that doesn't necesarily equate to a higher defect rate....we'd need more input to determine that.
I have had a tendency to steer clear of most of their tools lately, although I'd put the 22124 and the Bosch router on my short list if I were in the market.
I really like older Craftsman tools, like my late 50's era 6-in. jointer. I also have a very nice Craftsman power hacksaw (made by Atlas) at about the same time.
I recently purchased an older Craftsman jigsaw with the metal body for $4.00 at an auction. It's not as refined as some of the newer jigsaws, but it works quite well. I also have a newer plastic-bodied Craftsman jigsaw that I received as a gift, but I don't know how well it works because it's still in the box. I guess that pretty well illustrates my feelings on Craftsman power tools.
I used to rant at every mention of Craftsman tools, when they slipped from first in retail sales to 5th I was really pleased and thought maybe that would teach them a lesson..
There are exceptions though. I bought one of their lathes.. a big cast Iron thing (not that whimpy tube thing) and have been pleased with it so far. The only reason I purchased it was with the sale price, taking a floor model ,and signing up for their credit card (which I never used) I got it for about $350.00 It was something like twice that price originally. Oh and I still have one of their old shop vacs that is at least 25 years old. Heh, heh, I have never bought a filter for it, just knocked the dust off it when it became too restrictive! (in case you aren't aware they make a serious profit selling replacement filters and parts... )
Anyway I buy thousands of dollars worth of tools per year and it's a rare year when $100.00 goes to Sears!
I also have a craftsman 'professional' 8" bench grinder i was given as a gift over a year ago, and equipped with am 80 grit aluminum oxide wheel it's a fine machine to have in the shop. I don't think it has a very high price tag, and it's smooth and precise and quiet, with a durable flexing lamp to boot.
Jesse David
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before," Bokonon tells us. "He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
I bought a Craftsman TS (the big $850 model) almost three years ago. It has a good fence, is easy to adjust and has adequate power for most operations.
My only complaint is the difficulty in removing and replacing the blade guard/rivving knife/splitter assembly.
I've put this saw through many hours of use and have always been completely satisfied with the results.
I also have a Craftsman 1 1/2 HP router/table combo which I am somewhat less satisfied with. The router is fine.. but I have trouble setting up the fence square to the table because it's track is not machined well.
I wish I had a 3HP Grizzly TS and a router table with a high tech fence.. but I can't justify making the switch because these tools do get the job done.
My TS has good cast iron tables and when I outfit it with my WW11 blade and the crosscut sled and panel jigs I made.. I can sometimes surprise even myself.
My jointer and planer are Delta.. my BS is a Grizzly 1014. I wouldn't get any of those three tools at Sears.
I have the2hp combo and the router broke twice and you are right about the fence it is a bear to adjust.
I'm gonna replace that table someday in favor of a combo kit with a good fence that adjusts easily and accurately.
I am also thinking about replacing that system to. I just don't know with what.
Well, speaking of Craftsman ...............When Jimmy Carter left office, I understand his staff chipped in to buy him a whole shop's worth of Craftsman tools. I always felt sorry for him. But he has turned out some nice work, and I always wondered if he did it with Craftsman tools.
New issue of Workbench just rated four top-of their-line hybrid saws -
General 50-220 M1, $750;
DeWalt DW7 46X, $900;
Craftsman OR35504, $950; and
Jet 3301, $1,000
They salivated over the Craftsman, giving it their Editor's Choice award "You could spend about another $1,000 for a bona fide cabinet saw, and all you'd gain is one more horsepower. Hardly seems worth it.";
The General got Top Value, but recommended springing for the optional Biesemeyer fence for another $100;
Felt the DeWalt was behing the curve in cabinet and wing construction (stamped steel vs. cast iron wings);
Thought the Jet was underpowered and din't like the belt-driven blade raising mechanism.
Only the Craftsman had its trunnion attached to the cabinet as pposed to the tabletop. Only the Craftsman and DeWalt came with blades - the Craftsman 40t, DeWalt 30t.
Just FYI. Don't know why Grizzly wasn't included, and don't know how this Craftsman model differs from the model (22144?) that everybody's been talking about.
Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Edited 2/2/2005 10:21 pm ET by mvac
mvac,
the Grizzly at $955.00 is a true cabinet saw 3 horsepower 220 volt or 2 horsepower 110 volt and if you want a left tilt saw go to page 17 same price!
Model G1023S page 16 of their currant catalog
Frenchy,
I'm not knocking the Grizzly. But this thread is about Craftsman tools, and whether or not they're of any quality, getting better or worse, etc. I just quoted the results from the Workbench evaluations, and as I said I don't know why a comparable Grizzly wasn't included.
My point is that Craftsman is now making a few tools that are highly competitive with, and sometimes thought to be superior to, what we commonly accept as "real" wwodworking power tools. I mean, to come out first, even in a subjective evaluation, against DeWalt, Jet and General saws of the same price range is pretty impressive.
Anyway, that was the thinking behind my two cents. If you're lovin' your Grizz', though, I'm happy for ya!
Regards,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Went to the Rockler store yesterday and got me a new Router table system.
I got the table package that includes the JessEm Router Lift FX, the Rockler table, fence, steel stand, table switch, and accessory pack (hold downs etc) on sale for 349.99.
I can't wait to get it all set up. I'm going to mount my Bosch 1617 to the JessEm Lift.
I hear this is a good system.. but anything's bound to be better than my old Sears router table combo. LOL
Been over looking at the rockler site to. They got some nice packages.Much better than what I got. Don't know what I am going to do yet though.
I actually picked mine up at the store here in Houston.
The Rockler website says the package I bought is currently oversold and back ordered.
You can get just the table and fence for alot less but the JessEm lift is so nice.
Bill,
I shouldn't say this, but I haven't used my Craftsman TS guard in years. BUT, I DO use a MJ Splitter on my shop-made zero-clearance insert. If you haven't heard of it, go Rockler or Woodcraft. The thing rocks, costs less than $20, was rated something like "superb" or 4 stars by Pop. WW or ShopNotes or some other mag, and is something I wouldn't ever do without again. I'd also buy two, since it's plastic, and someday it's gonna break. Check it out.Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
The main reason I take the trouble with the blade guard is that it catches the dust and sends it down into the blade dust chute which is hooked up to my collector.
Using the saw without the guard is a real mess sawdust wise.
I have used a Craftsman 10 contractor TS for over 25 years. Has done most everything I asked to but was under powered with 1 HP. Replaced the motor with a 2HP and will probably remain the only TS I'll ever need (moderate hobby use), depending on if a new link belt gets rid of some vibration. Craftsman 36" lathe and a 6" stationary sander purcahsed about the same time have seen less use but do all I need. A portable belt sander and battery screwdriver purchased more recently were of little merit. Then again, I also bought about the cheapest available 14" off-brand bandsaw and 12 sp floor drill press at about the same time as the TS and both are doing great after finally changing tires on the BS last month. They were all the most I could afford at the time and don't really have any regrets. Definitely got my money's worth. Expensive isn't always best.
Ells
While I agree with your sentiment, I certainly disagree with your experiance.. I used to be a loyal Sears buyer untill time after time I felt cheated by them.. Once I found that I could buy superior quality tools from Grizzly for less than Sears prices I was converted.. trust me once you use the Grizzly stuff you'll see the light too!
As to those poor souls in Canada who don't have access to Grizzly my heart goes out to them,,,
I really would like to try grizzly. I am thinking about a spindle sander but after my sears disaster I am not feeling to brave right know since there is no grizzly store around me to go and look.
mt330,
Well,... my experiance with stuff that I looked at and held and debated about has been anything but positive while the stuff I've purchased sight unseen from Grizzly has worked well for me.
Have you ever gone to buy a car and after you've bought it come to the realization that it was a lemon, dud, or plain old P.O.S. ? If so your judgement isn't any better than mine..
I will say that if so many others agree with my pleasant ownership experiance, chances are that Grizzly does make decent stuff..
Now if you need the latest gimmick or wiz bang, if you need flawless perfection and spot on attention to details don't buy the Grizzly.. they are simple basic well made tools that don't have a lot of flash and splash. They do however let you make some wonderful things at a price that will allow you to be able to afford the wood you'll need.
Frenchy,
Well, truth is, I haven't bought any major power tools for a long time, last was a Delta chop saw a few years back. I guess one reason is because none of my Craftsman's, or even cheaper ones, have failed me, yet. That said, I doubt if I would look closely at Craftsman or those off-brands for replacements for several reasons. But, thought that all the bad rap they seem to be getting may be undeserved if people would realize at the time what they were buying and how they would be using it. And yes, I'm sure that there are plenty of stories out there about all sorts of short commings of various tools and how quality has changed overtime. I quess I just happened to get lucky and got the tools that did the job I had for them to do.
Ells
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with a link belt. If you haven't done it already, get machined pulleys, too. Make sure it's all aligned and you'll find that stuff doesn't want to dance off of the table any more when you start the saw. - lol
As I've said before, Craftsman used to be pretty much the only choice for DIY'ers and their focus was more about quantity than quality. I don't remember them ever claiming that their power tools were on par with professional grade stuff. They did, however, give large numbers of hobbyists a low-cost way to try their hand. Some of them (us? - lol) caught the bug and moved on to better tools. Most, however, finally decided that this wasn't really their thing and their tools got shoved in a corner until they got sold or given away.
When the DIY market exploded several years ago, people started watching Norm and thought "Hey, I can do that" followed by "What's a Porter-Cable, anyway?" (Actually, I think Norm used Craftsman tools in the earliest Yankee Workshop shows.) The stampede was on and Craftsman got left in the dust. Mass production dropped the price of higher quality tools to levels within reach of DIY'ers and Craftsman never "got it". - lol
I think they're beginning to "get it" now. Their new cabinet saw will be in my 'top five' list when I upgrade - probably this year. I'm also favorably impressed with some of their other stuff - it's way better than what they had even 10 years ago. - lol
Hey, thanks for the update. Thought it was kind of ironic that I was not paying much attention to the tool market because I busy building stuff with my Craftsmans. Interest has surged and wanned over the years but just learned of the link-belts and still waiting for delivery (used Amazon free shipping) and if that smooths out a couple of them I will be tickled indeed.
Ells
My Craftsman router made a pretty good one-time use shotput. I think I got near 70ft with it. I almost made it out to the treeline where my Craftsman mower resides. I haven't had the urge to chunk my Dewalt stuff anywhere.
Thanks, 'Freak - I got a good belly laugh out of that one...Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
I get serious distance using the hammer-toss technique- hold the cord, coupla twirls around and let er go. Much more satisfying than the shot put. I almost put a 2 1/4 hp circ saw in orbit that way.
Stash
Shotput, huh? - lol
My '75 vintage Craftsman "Commercial" router is still going strong after 30 years.
Yeah, about a 97 vintage. My dad has lots of older Craftsman tools that are still running strong. Most have ballbearings and just seem better built all the way around.
I've had good luck with Craftsman portable power tools of 20+ years vintage, In fact, I'm still using a craftsman 10" table saw that I bought used 30 years ago. And a 4x24 "commercial duty" belt sander of the same vintage keeps right on chugging along as well.
But I've also been inside of one of their newer top of the line routers, and I wouldn't want to repeat that experience. It was a collection of cheapo manufacturing methodology that one would not expect to stand the test of years of use, and didn't even last as long as the issue of the catalogue it was listed in.
Old craftsman was reputable, I'll pass on the newer stuff.
Eric in Cowtown,
Just my opinion
HI,
Regarding your Craftsman question. Like many people I have a work area full of craftsman tools. They work wonderfully. 7 1/4 circular saw is twenty years old, 3/8 drill corded drill is even older. After twenty years I had to finally put electrical tape on the drill's cord.
My wife purchased me the LaserTrac radial arm saw the first month it came out. I have cut 8/4 red oak, 3/4 oak plywood, and MDF with it. Never had a problem.
When I rip cut red or white oak I do install a 24 tooth Frued ripping blade which I purchased at Sears. It is easier to rip with then the factory bland and it leaves very few burn marks. The rest of the time I use the original blade that came with the machine. The original blade has had two professional sharpings and coming up on third one this spring.
I have a Shopsmith and the Craftsman tools are a perfect compliment.
Best wishes
To All,
I see alot of postings referring to Sears as a maker of powertools. To my knowledge, I don't believe Sears as such makes much of anything. I was told or read somewhere that many of their low end stuff was rebadged Ryobi and even Singer might have been in there too. Looking at their Professional catolog a while back it appeared that many of their high end grade equipment was way overpriced Tywanese clone machines with added safety features and their trademark horsepower rating. At any rate, I truly believe Sears are or could be the founders of the Co Branding practice which is most noticed at Supermarket chains. Sears is a Department Store, not a tool/machine maker. Did they aver have factories churning out tools? I know they did develop the catolog home business and had a mill to process the lumber. But I don't believe they have factories all over the States (oops I mean China) churning out all manner of stuff.
At any rate, my early tools were Craftsman, bought with my card and not too pricey. My wife wouldn't let me make any major purchases unless I showed I had any aptitude for wood working. These tools were noisy, vibrated and generally chincy. They did start me off though. Whats funny is that their silly extended warranty people were still trying to sell me warranties on 35.00-70.00 tools that cost as much as the tools.
Regards, Earl
I don't think that Sears ever claimed to be a tool maker. For as long as I can remember, their ads referred to the "Craftsman line of tools". J.C. Penney and Montgomery Ward also had tool lines in the 50's and 60's.
As far as I know, none of them actually made anything (tools, clothing, furniture, whatever) of their own. They just contracted with other manufacturers to sell their merchandise under a 'house' name. Since they were buying in huge quantities, they could make it work.
I ran into a similar thing a couple of years ago when I was replacing windows for a customer. The millwork manager at the local Home Depot told me that his windows (I've forgotten the name) were actually made by Pella. The name change let Pella sell more windows without appearing to compete with their own distribution/sales network.
Many of us used Craftman tools until we learned better.
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