I am using a Kreg jig for assembling cherry face frames for new kitchen cabinets. I fabricated some, sanded them to 220 and set them aside in a space with controlled humidity for a couple of weeks. I noticed that the corner joints have creeped and will require resanding to level the surface. What can I do to prevent this from happening? Glue them? Biscuits? I spent a lot of time making these with a cock beed and they look great except for the ridge at the joint. I am concerned that it will reoccur with seasonal humidity changes.
Jim in Woodstock Vermont
Replies
The corner joints are between what two materials and how thick are they? Are you using glue or just the angled in screws?
John W.
Hi John,
Thanks for your reply. I am using 15/16" x 2" cherry. I used screws only for the first few frames. I did begin using Franklin Titebond as well on the latest ones fabricated three weeks and don't notice any movement on those yet. I have used dowels and biscuits before and never experienced this problem with either of those methods. I used the Kreg system for reasons of speeding up the work. My wife is beating on me to complete our kitchen project. I keep my shop humidity at 50% with a dehumifier and let the material acclimate for two weeks prior to assembly. I milled the material from 5/4 rough. I am going to roughen up the joint faces with sandpaper and continue to glue the joints until I can come up with a better solution. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Again, thanks for your reply. Ain't Knots great!
Jim
I think you answered your own question - no creep on the glued up frames...and the other methods you mentioned that were not creeping imply that they are glued...the pockets screws are great at holding together two pieces of face frame and applying what would be adequate clamping pressure to them for glue - and even the Kreg folks say that any pocket hole joinery would be stronger with glue...unless you want the joint to be reversible, why wouldn't you glue it?
Glue and screw.
There are many factors that affect wood movement. The cells in the lumber still absorb moisture as they were intended to do. None of us can completely control relative humidity. Using the lumber at optimum moisture content and getting a finish on as soon as possible can help but there are no guarantees. Humidity has been very high in most parts of the US this summer. I expect shrinkage will rear its nasty head come heating time. We try our best to abate the movement but it's not a job for mere mortals. I've been running fans in my shop to keep the air moving and I'm very cautious about storing lumber and projects under way. Because pocket screws are basically a butt joint, swelling of the wood can can take the path of least resistance. The only way I know to help with moisture absorption is to allow good circulation on all faces and sides as you go through the various building steps. Sometimes we have to accept the fact that absolute perfection is elusive.
You can't get a pocket screw into the beaded section of the frame. A slight amount of twist in the face frame can cause the beads to move past each other. You didn't say how wide the frames were, whether the lumber was KD, how you stored it, if it was surfaced, what position you put the screws in, if you also used glue and how you stickered the assemblies. Pocket screws work well for pulling narrow faceframes together but they won't do anything for slight twisting or cupping of the lumber. I suspect that is what is happening.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Jim ,
It sounds from your post that you may not have used glue . The pocket screws pull the joints tight the glue will keep them there for the most part. There is always a chance of some movement but glue will help much.
good luck dusty
Jaime, When you get as old as me you'll have creaking joints too.
(especially on rainy days.) OH! You meant "creeping" joints . Use to hang out in those too. Many's the night I'd find creeping home preferable to driving 'Steinmetz %)
Edited 8/2/2005 9:02 pm ET by steinmetz
If you have a quarter sawn rail meeting a flat sawn style, for example , the chances of a step at the joint are quite good-I am assuming you are talking about the frames for cabinet doors.
Hi Phillip,
I have been gluing the joints which helps must does not eliminate the very small step on some of them. Maybe I'll try a small biscuit as well. That would really be overkill. We have had a very dry summer punctuated with periods of high humidity. I recently installed a dehumidifier in my walk-in basement shop to stabilize the working environment. Perhaps that will help. I should also do some research on the movement of wood. Many thanks for your reply.
Jim from Woodstock, Vermont
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