hey,
I was wondering if anyone could send me a copy of the 1981 issue 31 because i’m needing this 4 a school g.c.s.e project. thanks luke.
Edited 1/11/2007 3:51 pm ET by luke19
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Edited 1/11/2007 3:51 pm ET by luke19
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Replies
Man i guess i am getting old, it took me three tries just to read this post and understand what was being said.
Doug Meyer
Luke,
May the force be with you!
Would you like a free copy, or will your mom spring for the $6 to $8 for one off of ebay? If so, I can point you in the right direction.
Lee
well really if someone has got a copy if they could copy and paste it would be more efficient. luke.
Edited 1/11/2007 3:51 pm ET by luke19
If I have the magazine, and I probably do, I will send it to you for free if you'll go back and re-write both of your posts to come close to correct spelling. I know you can do better than that. Life is going to be very tough if you're not able to get a tad better with writing.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
ok sorry i can spell its just quicker to write in an abbreviated form. So if you wouldn't mind pasting me a copy i would be very grateful. thanks. luke. And by the way I'm an A grade student and top of my school!
Edited 1/11/2007 3:55 pm ET by luke19
Luke,
".....I'm an A grade student and top of my school"!
I see you also have an A grade in obscure teenage argot. 'Twas ever thus.
If you post in that argot again I shall compose answers in Geordie, which is a fine diction but unknowable by even the hippest US dudes and hepcats (to use some now-defunct argot).
Of course, the content of my answers will also miss your memeplexes entirely, as the latter came from Zog on an asteroid - or so I believe, as they seem alien in some way.
Perhaps you will agree to communicate rather than be "quick" (ie take 3 posts before you are groked) in future posts?
Lataxe, a potential helpmeet from elsewhere.
Sahib Lataxe,
<<If you post in that argot again I shall compose answers in Geordie, .....>>
Actually, I would really like to see that. I have something of a running bet with meself on how much of your native lingo I would be able to decipher. If you were so inclined to indulge me, I'd look forward to the challenge of trying to make sense of your dialect.... ;-)Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
James,
The plea to Luke, in Geordie:
How man, yee Luke!
Ahsee yuh hev a setifikit in daft lad's taalk, like aal bairns dee.
If yuh gaan-on-n-on taalkin dafty, Ah'll pugle-back in Geordie, a geet canny lingo, like, but hard-as-oot freh even cliver lads like yee t'get, knaaworramean?
Worra pugle on aboot'll hev yuh scratchin yir bonnet an aal, as yee must come frem Zog via a jawnee inter spayus - yuh soond so spayussed-oot, like.
Perhaps yuh'll agree te taalk propa instid a klyin yer wurds aal ower we, in future?
Lataxe, mebbe yer marra frem elsewhere.
Man I have trouble understanding you all when you are speaking english! :)
Doug Meyer
Lataxe,
Mighty fine, sir! I thank you for indulging my curiousity. "Twas relatively easy, even though I had to read it a bit slower than usual, to catch the meaning.
Direct translation: see post #7, this thread.
Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
This was Luke's original post.
33723.1
<hey,
I was wondering if anyone could send me a copy of the 1981 issue 31 because i'm needing this 4 a school g.c.s.e project. thanks luke.>
It was polite. Brief. To the point. I fail to see any rudeness there. Yet the responses he received were ones of derision. How is that justifiable? Where is it written in this forum or anyplace else on this website that you must conform to certain grammatical or social standards in order to post here?
Again, this is no way to treat a new member of the forum - or anyone else for that matter.
Zolton
Z,
You'll find that your quote is of Luke's edited post.
Still, I agree with you - although one should play the kindly headmaster now and then, don't you think?
I hope Luke will grin a bit at we red-faced old f**rts and start again. I hope Forestgirl will forgive the impetuous youth (should he put his impetossitude aside for now) and grace his postbox with the thing he demands.
Lataxe, a disciplinarian of the old school.
Edited 1/12/2007 1:50 pm ET by Lataxe
Being the first to post on this in response to the original posting I will say that I was not personally trying to be mean or nasty. I was trying to state that the younger set (and keep in mind that I am in my 30's so I am not really old) likes to type in a manor that is very hard to understand. I literally had to reread the post to get it all (and I still don't know what those GC what ever stands for)
The post was edited I think when someone suggest that he may want to do so. However being as the viewer here does not show when the old posts are edited and that you have to go back to look as you do not see read post, I think that most of us never realized that he went pack and edited it when we old farts said we had trouble reading it.
So I will give him credit for the edit so that the rest of us could figure out what was being said. The issue with the short cuts in use today is that they are really a slang and if you do not keep up with slang you can't understand it very well.
Luke this is not and was not a slam but please keep in mind that when in a group of older people that the short cuts that you think are logical are just difficult to understand and often considered rude by others. My father may have understood what you said but he would not have responded well to it and my mother would not have understood it because they were not raised to it the way you have been. I am sure that you have seen this with older people that do not like or understand computers. IF you want to see the kind of mess it can cause when you change spellings look up an article by Mark Twain on the subject of spelling. It is really funny, but informative at the same time.
Now one thing I do take exception to and think was utterly uncalled for and think deserves an apology was the comment "Shortening words is not an art it is common sense and for some strange reason to you americans it seems to make me ignorant and impulsive. Why is this?" First off this is an insult to a lot of people on this forum as they are NOT all from the US :) and to assume this is presumptuous. And second to those of us that are from the US it is also an insult. First off blanket statements seldom are true, and even if it is true I fail to see the logic of going onto a sight that is mostly Americans and is from (What I think is) and American company and making comments about Americans when you want something from the people on the forum. Call us rude if you like.
And if you really want to know the truth is it does not make a lot of sense either. What time did you save with it? You ended up typing it out full and you have had to defend yourself. The reason we use standard spellings is so we all fully understand the other and trying to save a little bit of time in a form of communication that is known for misunderstandings buy being even more vague is not logical it is just one more attempt for instant gratification. I realize I am trying to push back the ocean but there you have it. Maybe I can use this example when talking to my nephews that are around your age.
Doug Meyer
one of those "Americans" that you seam to find so distasteful.
Whenever I see a forum on the Internet, I usually approach from a lurking to get a feel for the site. This post sort of piqued my interest from several points of view. One being clear understandable communication, respect, manners.
At an early age I would also think that proper use of grammar should be at the forefront of the thought process. That being said one should consider that first impressions can sometimes be lasting impressions. Like everything else, the more we practice, the better we get.
Best to get the wrinkles worked out before you need to send a resume to a prospective employer..................
Would it be appropriate to say that "Haste makes waste"?
Cheers to ALL,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
Kidderville, NH
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Well, I usually try to stay out of these, er, "debates", but I wanted to make a comment on this one. First, I thought FG's initial responses were elequent -- the soul of polite, reasoned restraint, especially in light of the tempers beginning to rise all around this post. Second, the "shorthand" did not offend me in the least. No more than a post from someone whose first language is not English (and there are a lot of those on this forum, and I appreciate the multicultural input here -- a lot!)
What did put me off towards Mr. Luke was his apparent attitude that folks here owed him a duty to jump to fill his wishes so he could do his homework without breaking too much of a sweat himself. He could have gotten the article as a reprint from FWW, but he chose not to spend the, what is it, $3? Rather, he fully expected someone here to spend considerable time and effort to locate an OLD article, scan it and post it for him, all in violation of FWW's copyrights. I must admit, the word "spoiled" did come to mind.
I find this feeling of entitlement to be gaining popularity, not only with younger folks, but all over. My own philosophy is that I'll never feel entitled to have you help me with my load, but I'd be happy to accept any help you may be willing to offer and happy to help you bear your own if I can. I wish more folks shared it.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
My thoughts completely. If all had that philosophy, we would be in a much better world.
As I read the original post, it had a very similar resemblance to some of the work that I have received from students of mine. While this is not a formal setting, people tend to judge you by what they first "see" of you (first impressions). Obviously Luke's first impression ruffled some feathers, not a bad thing, went back and fixed the problem, edited. Obviously he learned something he didn't intend to. Some would have walked away and been done with it.
Without informing people of what the norms are in different social settings, how elst wuld he lurn it?
Donkey
are you accusing him of being american...? he did mention GCSEs - he's probably British!
Sir Lataxe the patient, is Luke truly one of yours'? I am very sure that at least 500 of US have the article that he requires but he fails to understand in his myopic view that it is only most efficient for him and perhaps not for the provider to provide that labor.
I am also so proud of FG the patient for not verbaly tearing his heart out for the glib, inconciderate arrogance that was displayed. Thus shall the young be educated, regardless of their "A" standing-should we all now bow- there are a "few" bright folks on this international site and I think that his scope is not that wide. All the best, Paddy
ps. I must beg forgiveness for the rant but he really pressed my wrong button. PFH
I don't recall him giving his age. A very young chap is understandably immature (ignorant).
"A very young chap is understandably immature (ignorant)." I prefer to think of him as quite possibly impulsive, and quite probably writing in the vernacular that's acceptable on whatever web sites he regularly participates. I've never been to any of the sites the youngsters inhabit these days, but it could well be that the first post characteristic of whatever cyber-vernacular is in vogue at the moment. Of course, I could be way off base there, who knows?
And, let us not forget, the job of youngsters, especially teenagers, is to be different from their elders! Sometimes they forget when it's not in their best interest to follow through on the task, LOL!
Ok, gotta go take a look in the bookcase for that article. i trooley hope i cn fnd it fur hiz fine se'f.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'll see what I can find tonight -- I'm on the West Coast, so you may not see anything until tomorrow.
Glad to hear that you're literate. Remember, when you post in an internet forum as a newbie, it's just like walking into a room full of strangers. If you're in the mood to wow them with non-conformity, that's one thing. However, if you're looking for help with something, and hoping for a certain amount of friendly welcome, it's best to dress up a little, comb your verbal hair so-to-speak, and compose your messages accordingly (at least if it's populated with middle-aged adults). If slow typing is contributing to the urge for the short-hand, try Miss Bacon or Miss Marvis or whatever her name is, LOL. Fast typing is a joy once it's learned (says formerly 100 wpm forestgirl)
(off the soap-box now) Welcome to Knots!!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 1/11/2007 7:21 pm by forestgirl
Luke,
Buy the Fw DVD. It is only $125.00 US plus shipping and handling. Then you will only be insulting your pocket book. JL
Luke, as it turns out, I have two copies of that magazine, so you're welcome to one of them, let's say $2 plus shipping, eh? Do you live in the US? There's some speculation you're on the other side of the Atlantic! Click on my name and send me an email.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
OK, I hereby withdraw my offer. You've exceeded my tolerance for impetuous behavior by pretty much being rude. Bye. Have a nice life. Hope you look on this episode when you're 30 or so and blush just a tad.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie
Well done. I wouldn't help that squid for $100.00 plus shipping.
Lataxe
I think I actually understood 2/3's of what you were saying. I'll wait for the translation from James to confirm. I'll gloat later!
Luke
Learn some manners. They'll take you alot farther in this world than an "A" in ignorance.
And to all, a good day. Back to my dovetailin'.
Jeff
Jiminy,
Let's give the lad a break. He came onto this site seeking a very legitimate item, asked about it properly and was roundly taken to task for, of all things, the manner in which he asked for the thing he sought. He was not demnading or rude, yet some of the responders to his query were.
Is this the way we want to encourage the next generation of woodworkers? I think not. It's a good opportunity, instead, to turn the other cheek if he initially rubbed you the wrong way and get to know him a bit better before dumping on him immediately just because he didn't "meet standards." That's more than a little intolerant. Maybe, as a person who stutters, I'm more sensitive to this type of thing than others might be, but a little friendliness, patience and tolerance go a long way...
I agree the young can be impetuous, arrogant and rude at times. I know I was. And it's a wonder my parents didn't kick me out of the house sooner than they did. Yet I don't think it's up to us to school someone on "proper" language or spelling here. If that were the case, many others could use instruction as well - including me at times. And I wouldn't like it a bit. Neither would any of you.
I'm going to try and get the information the original poster sought to him, and I hope all of us can be a little more lenient to newcomers to the forum in the future. There's a lot of good information and exchange to be had here. But it won't draw reasonable people in unless there is reasonable discussion. This was not.
Zolton
I don't care what you say, there is always room for please and thank you. This person has to be aware they are asking a favor that causes the giver way more work than the asker. That has to be recognized by the asker. To me, it's all part of polite social actions that help maintain smooth relationships between people.
Well said. Luke19 came seeking help; forestgirl offered it to him; He responds by being rude to Lataxe and Forestgirl. Good manners do count. Hopefully he'll learn. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Nice work KNOTS, How would you answer the question - Do you like kids?
How would you answer the question - Do they like you?
Do you ever work with kids?
In what capacity?
Coach, Youth minister, teacher, mentor, big brother/sister, teachers aid, scout leader, etc.Kids need guidance and encouragement- they make mistakes and don't always learn lessons the first time.Zolton had it pegged - this forum did nothing to encourage and share.The kid tried and got slapped, tried again and got slapped harder.Some of you missed your calling- Quit your job and run out to get your teaching credential- The world needs your expertise and patience.ouch,
Dave
I got it and would like to suggest perhaps an alternative for a school project.We're Crew 1338 and we are building skis along the lines of NorthHouse.org which as illustrated on a Woodwright show. We have 12 pairs in production now. Six bent and six ready to bend this weekend. These skis are single board skis. The items in #31 are laminated. We chose the former because it would be more traditional. We have built a dog sled with hand tools starting with a 9ftx18"d ash log and show shoes from regular ash lumber.The TV show illustrated using spoke shaves and plans for the tapering. We built a fixture and use a router mounted to a sled to form the taper and a table router to do the bottom grove. We are bending them in a pair of simple open box forms with a toe piece with the shovel radius and dowels to create the camber and heel uplift. One box can bend 2 pair with shovels at each end upside down. The box height is about 1ft and they are about 10 inches wide. We steam them in another 1ft square box using a 5 gal can and a turkey cooker for the heat source.This design is a simple leather binding like show shoes wedged in to hold tight in a through mortise in the middle of the ski. Poles will be 1inch bamboo. 26 poles cost us $40 and 10lbs of leather $25. The stock used was 8inch or so 4/4 rough ash 82". We jointed thebottoms flat and cut to 3.5" wide. Then used the jib to form the tops. Takes about 1.5 hours in the steam box to get the suppleness we want with almost a full inch in the center thickness.If interested, I can post some picts of the activities.Good Luck.
hi, thanks for offering an alternative and would be grateful if you would send me the pictures for these. thanks, luke
Wow!
A young man comes on to the forum from one of the world's premier woodworking magazines and asks - in his own way - for some help with a school project and we dump all over him because he "offended" us with his grammer, spelling and style of internet chatting.
Tomorrow we will dicuss how today's youth seems to have no interest in the world of woodworking.
I spent a fortune on deodorant until I finally realized that people didn't like me anyway.
ok, i would like to apologise for my bad manners and impetuous behaviour, and would hope everyone I offended would igve me a second chance. And, next time I will remember to make a better first impression. thanks, luke.
Luke,
I hereby rechristen you "Cool-head Luke" and even now imagine you as a Paul Newman-like figure of noble profile and gimlet eye.
So, what other woodworky things pique your interest just now? Being as how we have used you as a scapegoat, whipping-boy and all them other unpleasant things, we probably now owe you 35.8 gigabytes of succinct and pertinent information, at the very least.
Lataxe
thanks for accepting the apologie. And could you please tell me how to contact the fine woodworking magazine? thanks, luke.
Luke,
If you want to have a public discussion about something with a FWW representative, post a new message to Matt Berger or John White; they are FWW editors who frequent Knots.
Otherwise, click on the "Home" tab above then, in the "Magazine" section, click on "contact us", which throws up a page with various means of corresponding with FWW.
The direct link to the contact page is: http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/fw_contactform.asp
Lataxe
ok thank you. i'll give it ago now. luke.
Sir Hatchet;I am most impressed you are willing to overlook the fact young Luke traded you to our Team America with out a squeal of protest. Very big of you.Would a 'gimlet eye' be pale and watery, almost onion like?AndyObserver of things missed.
Pointer-Outer of the Obvious
Andy,
A gimlet eye is a sharp and piercing thing, usually of pale blue a la Newman. As mine are cow-brown, I have to use my beetling eyebrows to cause fear and loathing in my enemies. Of course I have no enemies, so that is an easy trick.
As to being mistaken for an American - this could only happen in cyberspace as I lack the necessary physical attributes: teeth as unnaturally even as a Caddy's grill, a large everything and a geet big gun (or even seven, including the Gatling). Also, I never chew gum, especially in the face of others, or eat junk.
On the other hand, I try to be can-do, tolerant of weirdness and garulous in the presence of strangers or neighbours alike. Lastly, I am a friendly beast in a very American fashion.
If I had to be one, it would be a welcome adventure, albeit scary.
Lataxe, surfer-not-cowboy
Edited 1/13/2007 6:08 pm ET by Lataxe
Luke,
As my Cheshire born wife would say, "That's a good lad".
You'll be amazed at the amount of enthusiastic help you'll receive from this forum. (For what it's worth, I started out on the wrong foot here by failing to understand the unwritten rules of etiquette before posting my first few times. And I'm old!!!!)
What part of the UK do you live in? If you click on your name, you will bring up your profile - put at least your country in there so when people respond to your questions they can give answers that might be more location specific.
Best of luck with your project
oldfred
oldfred,
thanks for the tip and have now updated my profile. Cheshire is just over the border from north wales isn't it? I'm going to need lots of enthusiastic advice if I'm to finish this project, reading through the plans it doesn't seem as if it's going to be very easy.
thanks, luke
Yes, Knutsford, Cheshire - fairly close to the Welch border. We've spent a few holidays in Northern Wales and have driven through the South. (I destroyed a transmission in an old Ford Rent-a-Klunker in those mountains.) You live in a beautiful country.
Cheers!
oldfred
thanks i live on the egde of the brecon beacons national park in a little town called Blaenavon which has been given world heritage status for its industrial past, so theres no shortage of inspiration around here.
luke.
Luke, I am happy to see that you are still using this forum. I appreciate your apology. Knots can be a great asset to you. I hope you continue to use it. Knots is a little more formal than a chat room, our participants are used to trading words without much in the way of short cuts.
Good Luck with your project. AB
Thank you Luke. I hope you don't lose interest in this forum or working with wood because of the response here. There must be something to all this hoopla if it can stir up so many responses so quickly. I hope you will enjoy taking part here, and I look foward to your input. This forum can learn from you, as you from this forum.
Wow, that was quite a nice read!
what was the artical about? Making cross country skis? being from the mountains (Park City) I would like to see such an artical.
ron
Hi, Ron, sorry to be late -- I lost my armor (antivirus) for a couple days, just got re-equipped. This issue has 2 articles on making cross-country skiis. Here's part of a paragraph from the first one, I love it. He's explaining that he was once intimidated by the prospect of making skis; then:
In 1980 dollars, he says they cost about $20 for materials. LMK if you'd like the issue, as I have two in my bookcase. Bought out the stock from a used bookstore years ago when they were closing their storefront and relocating.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
In response to your offer on the artical on the skis, I am a cross country skier,of sorts, I would like to see how I could make a pair of skis just for the heck of it.
I would like to buy the artical if it is available.
thanks, ron
OK, now that I've recovered from the Seahawks OT loss yesterday: Shoot me an email with your address! I send it off. We'll work out the details later.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forestgirl and the others who 'slapped' Luke for his initial post did him a favor. Students have gotten into their heads that they, and they alone, know how to do things efficiently.It isn't just language. Lately, I've had students asking me for the final exam two weeks before the end of term, so that they "can get a head start on it." Nip that crap in the bud, says I, and "texting" along with it. Life takes time.Riverprof
river,
I have apologised to everyone I offended so there isn't much left I can do. If there is anything tell me and I will be happy to do it.
thanks, luke
Dear Luke,It isn't just a matter of apologizing -- although it is good that you did, and a sign of good character. My remarks weren't so much addressed to you as to those who thought you should be "given a break."Forms of graceful interaction have taken centuries to develop. For instance: some of the manliest men in history have had no trouble beginning letters "Dear Dr. Riverprof."Suddenly, we've got "Hi Riverprof." Well, hi backatcha. Emails are letters in electronic form. Nothing else has changed.With best regards,Riverprof
Prof,
You are one o' them teacher blokes. I remember them from school, when we lads would conspire to prick their pompous old bubbles and cause them to dance and fume a bit. Of course, we all got the cane and gymslipper-leg afterwards, in those days.
I have noticed you have some pomp about you and if I were still a lad I would have you waving that gym slipper at me and issuing unpleasant threats, as you fulminated.
But you are probably one of them wimpy modern teachers with no frightening cane about your person, just a bit of laughable sarcasm.........
Schools out forever!
Lataxe, a rude boy
Alas, Lataxe, you would grow very frustrated pricking this pompous old bubble. You write in sentences and you spell quite well. You have interesting ideas, crafty ways of expressing them, aptness in your literary allusions, and no fear in rising out of the stew of mediocrity and distinquishing yourself.You, sir, are a model student. I regret to inform you of this, as you entertain the conceit that you are some kind of troublemaker.Perhaps a piercing through your nose would make you more, uhm, threatening?
Prof,
I would not sully my perfect body with a piercing or even a frightening tatoo. I do wear disturbing trousers, however, which have been known to cause trouble of one kind or another.
I am also now thinking of a leather apron - far too much really, as it is bedtime.
You disappoint me with your response. I have missed being chased with a cane although never cared to be caught.
Lataxe, aged fifteen & threequarters (in the head at least).
PS I would like to know how Luke is getting on with the skis and if we can offer anything useful to his efforts, as opposed to all this drivel.
Lataxe, there is a company in Seattle that makes, "Working Kilts", much more shocking and disturbing than a mere apron. They even have a Workman's version with hammer loops, and a holder for a tape measure. And, a modesty snap that hooks the front hem to the back, for those occasions when your friends holding the ladder for you.
http://www.utilikilts.com/store/models.php
River,
I admit I'm not the best behaved person while in school and most of my teachers probably don't like me, but at the end of the day teachers are there to help their students and give them advice, not to "slap" us for thinking we know better. Everyone else has been decent enough to accept the apologie and had it done with. So, I'm hoping you would do the same.
thanks, luke
Wow,
What a thread this has been!
My hat's off to Luke for apologizing and for being a good sport after all and to Forrestgirl for masterfully chiding him on his initial bad manners and pouting without any sign of rancor. You're a good soul. And to Lataxe who is a rascal but always a gentleman. And to most others who have shown various amounts of annoyance, tolerance, good sportsmanship in all of this. And even to Riverprof who is a fellow curmudgeon.
One thing I can't seem to figure out - Luke, did you get the information you requested? Are you making, did you build the skis?
Rich
rich,
yes i finally got all the information that I needed but my teacher has now told me that the project is to be postponed to a later date! so no I haven't yet made the skis.
luke.
What?!
Get crackin' lad. We expect rapid progress - a full set of working drawings and images of the skis under construction, finished and in use!
Rich
rich,
ok. Will message you as soon as I have started the project.
luke.
OK,
But don't "message" me. Post it to here.
Rich
To Luke,I have to say that I for one am impressed that you stayed with this thread and this forum. While I will admit to being one of (the first in fact) person that disliked the mode of talk I do understand were it comes from. I just think that it is not as great as todays youth think it is. But I will chalk it up as something you and your generation will have to learn or figure out for themselves. I am glad that you stayed around and I hope that you continue to do so. I think we could use some younger people here. It would help us when we fall into the fatal trap of doing something because that is the way it has always been done. So stick around and when you see something that the old goats are just taking for granted call them on it.
To Riverproof,
I do have to agree with you that certain forms of behavior have gotten really bad. While I have never agreed with the idea that just because you are older then I am you deserve some special treatment, I have to say that in my generation and even more so today we have moved to a point that we treat everyone the same but that we treat them all like dirt. My dads best friend made his kids call my mother Mrs Meyer when she married my dad (about 50 years ago) and she was only about 3 to 6 years older then they were. Two years ago one of them looked at my mother and asked her if she would mind him calling her by her first name, being as he was in his 60s and had just retired. Today most of my friends avoid calling my mother anything because they don't feel comfortable calling her by her first name (and she would not be comfortable if they did) but they never learned to call anyone buy their last name.
This is not an improvement it is just the way it is. When was the last time you saw anyone under say 50 hold the door open for a lady when the walked into a building (a lady they did not know) ? Sad but the truth is that we have gotten so caught up in being equal to everyone that we brought everyone down to a level vs bringing everyone up.
And yes I do realize that their are exception. I had a proof in school that I called buy his first name (at his request) but we went on to be more then just teacher student, to this day when I run into him we will sit down and talk for hours. But I would never have dreamed of calling a proof buy his/her first name unless told to do so. Oh well like I said in the first post on this thread that I made perhaps I am just getting old.
Doug Meyer
IN the old days I had to WALK to and from the school bus stop, in the cold snow and rain, over a 100 yards both ways! Todays youth just gets someone to drive them to the stop and then they sit in the car until the bus shows up! :)
Doug,
You obviously had a cosseted childhood. "IN the old days I had to WALK to and from the school bus stop, in the cold snow and rain, over a 100 yards both ways! Todays youth just gets someone to drive them to the stop and then they sit in the car until the bus shows up"!
<Begin Yorkshire boasting>
When I were a lad, we had to walk one whole MILE to school in the snow, with the wind biting at our little legs clothed only in the regulation short trousers. Also, the Big Lads would pelt us with snowballs, the while, and steal our apples.
<End Yorkshire boasting>
I suppose we'll have that Richard or that Mufty on here now, telling us they had to go to school in bare feet with nobbut snails for lunch.
Lataxe, rescued from the penury and early death by the welfare state.
My father, born and raised in Houston, TX and now 80 years old, used to tell us his 'hardship stories' about how poor, how hard life was, etc. when he was a boy. He always included this line (remember we are talking Houston--sub tropical climate and all) "We had to walk 5 miles in the snow to school and it was uphill both ways. I only had a hot potato in my pocket to keep me warm, and it was also my lunch!" We would all roll our eyes appropriately and move on. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
No, no.
It's . . .
5 miles to school, uphill, both ways, in snow to my knees, with holes in the cardboard soles of my shoes.
Smack you kids if they role their eyes!
Yeah my grumpy old guy used to use something like that. But being as he is just old enough to remember WW2 in Germany and just young enough to have avoided the mess when they started drafting everyone over their he has some pretty nasty stuff to talk about. Of course then he came over at the age of 18 in the 1950s to the land of Milk and Honey and what did we do? Draft his butt and send him to Korea. Never have figured out how with all that he became so attached to this place.
So I guess when the old types start going on about this type of thing they have earned a bit of us putting up with them. I would not want to have lived through some of the stuff those of 70 plus years have seen.
Still I did feel compelled to point out that the area he lived in was flat. (I went and saw where he lived when I was younger) That worked well until he pointed out that he spent a year in the Alps when the sent all the kids from his area out of the city to avoid the bombing. And I thought I had him too, d@#! Oh well maybe next time I will get him. :)
I guess I will just have to settle for pointing out that my first motorcycle did not have electric start or some such so I can claim that I had to tough it out. I mean when we went camping as a Kid it was in a tent! (well until they bought the camper when I was two)
Oh well I guess I just have nothing good to use to show the youngens (did I get that term right?) anyway to show these young wipper snappers how tough things were in my youth.
Doug Meyer
Say what is a whippersnapper and how do you tell a young one from an old one anyway?
My complaints about students seem like the ravings of a curmudgeon, but let me assure you that they are not. One way that students "save time" when "messaging" me is to eliminate any mention about which of their courses they are taking. They also end up providing information that they might not wish to provide. So, for instance, I get a message like this (in its entirety):"Hey riverprof whens the quiz?"I cannot reply with an answer, since I do not know which course the student is taking. What I do know is that the student has missed at least three, possibly more, lectures, since I routinely mention the date of the next quiz. But pertinent to the present discussion, I have to reply:"Dear [email protected],"Forgive me for neglecting to address you by name. I cannot do so, because you did not sign your email, and your email address is unrevealing. (I can find your name by scanning the class manifest for your email address, but I consider it an inefficient use of my time to do so.)"You have not told me which of my courses you are taking. Until you reply with that information, I cannot answer your tersely worded query."With best regards,"Riverprof"The student's purportedly efficient form of communication has quickly become very inefficient, both for the student, and for me.Be assured that faculty all over the world are currently embattled against the rise of text messaging standards in email communications.Generally speaking, my students of late have been engineering students, who take great pride in their belief that they, alone among all students (and professors) at university, are practical when they are nothing of the kind; rather, they are merely possessed of myopic vision, for which they are rewarded (by engineering faculty) whenever they further narrow their view. In a wider sense, and if you think this is about "manners," have a look into the demise of Enron. It was just such thinking -- "the old rules are old fashioned and inefficient" -- that caused one of the great business collapses of all time. (There are comparable geopolitical examples, but I won't go into that.)The only reason that students feel the need to be "efficient" with language in their text messages is that they are (sometimes) typing on keyboards the size of toothpicks. Using undersized keyboards is not necessary, or efficient; it's just a silly-stupid fad. As a fad, it's fine -- in its place. When behavior designed for those teeny keypads spills out into ordinary email, it's time for a whack with the cane, as Lataxe would say.Rp
Edited 1/17/2007 7:14 am ET by Riverprof
Prof,
May I also recommend my technique for dealing with the evil plague of mobile phones - a 5llb lump hammer.
Incidentally, I see you have read your Edmund Burke and perhaps also Professor Oakeshott.
Still, I believe Luke is just captive to a fad and this is what teenagers enjoy. I will not list my many teenage fads, as you might choke on your breakfast whilst laughing very hard at my folly. But then you probably had your own little pecadilos in your teen years? If you are American, they will have been Utterly Ridiculous Fads and now the subject of comedic nostalgia movies from Hollywood.
Lataxe
My dear Lataxe,You have me pegged. Burkean to the bone.I did indeed have my teenage fads, one of which was to make myself to appear as much like your Liverpudlian lads as possible. Fortunately, I had adults around me who gave me the occasional whack -- physical, verbal, or with no more than a whithering glance -- and I matured over time.The danger for today's teenagers, and those of the past twenty years or so, is that our culture(s) care little for maturity. A thirty-something is as likely to take up a teenage fad as to point out the silly-stupidity of the particular behavior.Rp
Rp, My reference to you as curmudgeon was more in jest than you have understood. And since it really does take one to know one, let me offer my advice to your dilemma about your students' lack of courtesy in identifying themselves or providing sufficient information for a response to their offensively inadequate text messages. Simply don't answer. Don't complain and don't waste time with your own long, sarcastic and poorly-veiled, angry responses. Tell them the simple rules of social etiquette (which their boorish parents have obviously failed to instill) on the first day of class and don't repeat yourself. Talk softly and carry a big stick. Personnaly I would not make my cell phone/pager/email available. They're part of my my private life. I provide class room time and office hours. If I want to be a good guy, I provide information on an up to date Web page. Period. Besides, they delight in watching that vein pulse on the side of your forehead. Rich
Sounds reasonable, Rich, except that it goes against my vocation, which is to teach. I consider "repeating myself" to be part of the calling.
Indeed, I consider "repeating myself" to be part of the calling.Rp
Repetition is not the only technique that teaches. Telling your students you will not answer a "rude" request, and then actually refusing to answer when the rude request comes in is the most powerful means of getting the message to sink in.
Repeating, "I'm not going to warn you one more time," in response to the thousandth repetition of misbehavior generally only guarantees that you're going to have to say it once again.
Rich
Rich,I generally only have to say things once. But I will say them twice, thrice, or as many times as needed.Rp
Lataxe,
<<When I were a lad, we had to walk one whole MILE to school in the snow, with the wind biting at our little legs clothed only in the regulation short trousers. Also, the Big Lads would pelt us with snowballs, the while, and steal our apples.>>
Well...if your regulation short trousers looked anything like the high-fashion ones you modeled for us in another thread, I can certainly see why the Big Lads would be pelting you with snow balls and nicking your apples.... LOL
[BTW, for shop wear, black sweats and white running shoes go quite well with any accessory tool (hand or power, iron/steel or bronze/brass), and can be worn morning, noon, and night in even the most formal shop....] ;-)
With high-falootin' fashionista regards...Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
Ok why would someone be damaging your apples? Over here the big kids would just steal them.
Doug Meyer
Doug,
"Nicking" is Brit slang for stealing.Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
I kind of figured that out but was being a bit of a smart@#$.
Doug Meyer
Lataxe,
You 'ad trousers? And apples? Why we 'ad to walk 50 miles, just to get to where we could see the smoke from the smoldering remains of what used to be our school. Oh' and then walked home and slept under the road.
Ray
Ray,
And I bet it was uphill both ways too, right?
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
Kidderville, NH
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
You only had uphill? We had mountains, cliffs to scale woth only our bare bleeding hands between us and a sheer fall. With eagles eating our livers.
Ray
Ray,
Bah!
At least you had livers! We had already become organ donors just to get enough money to buy scraps to eat!
And those eagles really get angry when they can't find livers to eat.
Rich
Rich & Ray,
I'm humbled by your experiences.
And there I was being chauffered in a limo while dining on caviar and springwater imported from Mexico! I was too young to imdulge in such luxuries as the fruit of the vine. That came later in college!
BobBob @ Kidderville Acres
Kidderville, NH
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Rich,
Scraps? You had scraps?!!
One year our folks told us we were finally gonna have meat on the table for our Thanksgiving dinner...it was an animal cracker.
Ray
Lucky stiff!
Our "scraps" were chips of wood from dirty old packing crates. Sometimes we scraped the dirt off by rubbing them against the concrete. Then we placed the "clean" piece between 2 dirty pieces and called them "Oreo cookies."
Rich
Rich,
Oh, so we're bragging about crates, now, and concrete. Our neighbors up the gully, had a crate, and 4 rocks. They put it in their dirt yard, on the rocks, and let on that it was a car, up on cinder blocks. Social climbers! Rich folks have cars up on blocks...
Ray
*sob*We always lived downwind from those wrecks up on rocks-for-wheels.Had to breathe the noxious exhaust fumes all the time!
Starting to sound a bit like Python, "our father got us up each morning half hour fore we went to bed the night before... off we go noth'in to eat but a lump of dry poison... then e would kill us dance bout our graves singing hallelujah... next morning it would start all over again"
I can't wait for Ray's response. That was funny!
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
Kidderville, NH
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
AB,
Okay, you nailed me. But, a father? You 'ad a father?!! We 'ad to brew up our own poison.
I have a feeling this thread is the one another poster impugned as an example of the site not being serious enough about woodworking.
Ray
Ray,
Unless there is more than one of these threads that are a waste of time for woodworkers, I believe the poster was talking about a thread in ''quality'', where mention was made of a French Canadian food which he promptly twisted with his advanced knowledge of French to mean prostitute. Go figure... Of course, this one may also tick him off, so I better stop now. I wouldn't want to upset the fellow by challenging his superior presence, since I did say I would stay out of any threads he initiated, and I am a man of my word. JL
"Get cracking lad......" I hope you're smiling.
I'll respectifully disagree that I verbally "slapped" Luke. I requested that he work a little harder on his initial post, tried to take some heat off of him later on, offered help with his request -- and chastised his rudeness to Lataxe. There, that's my synopsis. My original intent was to encourage a different approach, and help at the same time.
Am glad to see the thread's taken a positive turn. Hope it continues.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
<Forestgirl and the others who 'slapped' Luke for his initial post did him a favor. Students have gotten into their heads that they, and they alone, know how to do things efficiently.
It isn't just language. Lately, I've had students asking me for the final exam two weeks before the end of term, so that they "can get a head start on it.">
My, my. Are you now reduced to painting Luke with the same broad brush of behavior that you find irritating in your students? That's bigotry in its worst form. You're assuming quite a bit about someone about whom you know nothing.
Zolton
Luke, you got to like this stuff!!!!
As a Bear fan, I can't say that I am sympathetic. But I do have to say that the Seahawks are a class team from Holmgren on down. They are one of the teams I root for when they are not playing the Bears. People around here are actually up in arms about why the Bears didn't beat the Hawks like a drum. They are well coached, have some great players and already played the Bears once this year. So they came prepared, and Holmgren had a good game plan. I thought they played a great game, which could have gone either way. A great weekend of football all around.Look on the bright side, you won the Super Bowl last year. Well not according to the officials.
Chicago fans shouldn't be too hard on their team for not whompin' on the Seahawks. The main reason the 'Hawks didn't have a better record this year was due to injuries, every darned week it seems, with Alexander out for quite awhile, Hasselbeck out for awhile, and various key positions rotating like a revolving door! Hard to put together a cohesive, consistent team under those conditions. But, like you say, they were well-coached and the players on the field are no run-of-the mill practice team! They were conference champs last year, and that counts for something. Looking foward to next year. Good luck to your Bears from here on out, I root for them too!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Ron,
If you want to build a pair of wooden cross country skis, you are biting off a big chunk of project. The best wooden skis I have ever used were made by the Lampinen company in Finland. Having broken many, not because they were poorly made, but because I was a miserable skier. I found out a little about their inner workings. They have alternating strips of wood and empty spaces the same width as the strips of wood,(many) running for about a third of the ski length, where the camber is. I repaired more than I care to remember over the years, mine and the kids', replacing tail pieces and tips, edges and chunks of soles, using different techniques, from sold wood that I steamed and clamped into forms to multi-layer laminations that I glued up cold to forms made from particle board. You need to keep the weight down and both skis balanced. The camber of the ski is critical, because if you do not have the flex that happens as the ski is compressed by the body weight of the skier and the push created as the weight leaves the ski, you will have no forward mechanical advantage that is created by the ski, and the whole exercise will be probably very pretty to look at, but no fun to ski on. The edges need to be of a wood that is designed to handle enormous stresses without splintering. The Lampinen ski used resin impregnated wood edges, and the sole of the ski also needed to be resistant to abrasion. The depth of the running groove under the ski is very important. Good luck finding a printed article and good luck building the skis. I put the production of a pair of class country skis right up there with building a violin. I guess that is why I never thought of building a complete pair and limited myself to repairing what my family and I broke. JL
Jean,
Thank you for your information, I agree that is a bit more than I will do. I live in Park City Utah, where I mostly down hill ski and have tried a little snowboarding, spent most of the day on my face. I do cross country ski on occation in the Unita National forest, which is close by.
I mostly do wood turnings, I have a small shop in my barn. when I saw the discussion of cross country ski it sparked my interest, but like you said there is a lot of work involved.
But thanks for your interest.
ron
Ron,
Snow is great stuff, but can you imagine skiing on a pair of boards you built yourself?Don't give it up because it sounds difficult...save the thought for when you feel the drive to do it, and then do it. JL
Edited 1/20/2007 2:46 pm ET by jeanlou
Oh, now he pouts. Nowhere did I use the word repulsive or a synonym for it. I speculated that, like all teenagers, you might be a bit impulsive, and rather impetuous. Look those up in the dictionary if you don't know what they mean.
I stopped in this thread and saw that some heat was building, tried to damp it down a bit, and offered to spend probably 1/2 hour my time helping you out. Lataxe was giving you a bit of tongue-in-cheek chiding, but you took it overly serious and blasted him and me.
You've got a bit to learn about how to approach a new group of people and ask for their help.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Luke,
I hereby christen you: "The Duke of Pout" (or perhaps The Luke of Pout). :-)
At 15 you can't afford to be getting offended when ribbed for your inconsiderate online manners. Well, not if you want to form good cyber-relationships and pick our old brains for woodwork stuff (or even our pockets, if its free plans and such that you want).
So settle down, lad, and say you'll be nice. Then I will be a very helpful woodworking friend; and so will all them other coves of Knots. Forestgirl will certainly forgive you, despite your sulks, as she is Very Nice and Good.
Lastly: the problem with "common sense" is that it just ain't common, in such a large and diverse culture as that of Knots. You must learn some new ways.
Lataxe, your would-be-pal & good-chum.
One of the other reasons that FG's generous offer to mail you her extra copy is more appropriate, though less efficient than scanning and posting or emailing, is that doing as you requested is against copyright law. That may not bother you, but asking a stranger to break the law for you is different from doing it yourself, and can be considered rude.
Hello Luke,
I didn't go down through all the replies to your request, so someone may have answered your question. But if not, I would suggest calling Fine woodworking and requesting a copy of the article. I asked for this very article acouple years ago and since there are no back issues of this # left,they will send you a copy free. Good luck with your skis.
luke (deliberately not capitalized),
I shall furnish you with an argument which you might appreciate. It is a story told without ever using the correct word to express the thought yet it communicates! Reading it aloud helps plus it is a barrel of laughs.
That you don't expect to be insulted is fine by me. However, we oldtimers assume that we have earned that right by being insulted so many times ourselves. It really doesn't hurt that much either. On the other hand, when younger, we must be careful not to insult. Believe me, that is an almost impossible task as I learned again only last evening. And we should not be too proud to apologize even if we have difficulty understanding what the offense is as was also my case last evening. Personal injuries could be the result. I definitely belong in the camp with Forestgirl.
FYI, Lataxe is a Brit. In the USA there are some enclaves who believe that they own the correct form of English and all other should heel. Southern folk are aware of this attitude moreso than others. Unbeknownst to the believers their version is one of the more modern variations of English!
Good luck with your project.
Cadiddlehopper, "A" student in English
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