Does anyone know where to buy the Crown chisels with the yellow and red plastic handles? I’ve checked all the on-line catalogs I know about including WoodCraft, Woodworker Supply, Rockler, Constantines, Traditional Woodworker, etc. Can’t find anyone that carries them.
Thanks
Bill
Replies
Are you sure that they are not Marples.Most crown chisels have rosewood handles.If they were Marples then you may well have a problem as they are now owned by that famous tool group Rubbermaid!
Yes. They are Crown. Crown's website (www.crownhandtools.ltd.uk/)
lists them with stock numbers 170A thru 173A. They were one of the group of chisels tested in the Dec 99 issue of FW. They also list a set with black plastic handles. I don't know if they are the same chisel with different handles or not.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill
Try Highland Hardware, they carry most of the Crown Line. If they do not have them (I've never seen that yellow and red handle model in the store), I'm sure they can order direct order from Crown.
Regards...
sarge..jt
I did check their on-line catalog and they don't show them. I'll ask if they can order. Thanks for the suggestion.
BTW, if I end up getting the wood handled ones, do I want the long bench chisels or the short butt chisels for general use. I can't afford both.
Bill
Bill
I think calling to see if there Crown vendors catalog list them is a good idea. I have never seen them in the store and I'm there often. Probably be in this week-end as I'm off next week. Will check if I go Sunday.
Butt Chisels or Long Chisels? I just got a new set of Ashley Iles American Pattern chisels. They are shorter butt chisel style, but the handles were reduced in size and bubinga. Real butt chisels have big fat handles. I love those things for small work. They are well balanced and great for small joints. But.....
If you don't have any, I would go long. I don't mean the English Paring which are very long. I mean about the same lenght as the standard Marples. This is the reasoning.
The short balanced chisels are fantastic for small work. But it you have to go deep, they won't reach. The longer chisels will go deep and are fine for small work. They are a little akward for the small joint, but still will perform well. Latter on when you can afford another set, the shorter style can be added.
If I only had the budget to afford one of the two, common sense will dictate the longer to cover both ends of the spectrum until a latter date when the luxury of several sets for specific purposes is more of a reality. My first set was the standard Marples bought back in 73", I think. Marples used decent steel those days. Still have them (stubbier from sharpening) and still use them as the "go to" on deeper clean-ups.
BTW, I have 3 Crown mortice chisels. The steel is not the highest grade, but they are very heavy duty. They are the 5/8", 3/4"and 1". Well built and the sockets are very sturdy as the handles. The tips will roll with heavy use, but in those sizes use is a minimum and sharpening is not a problem. The Barr is the best hand-made mortice chisel, but requires a King's ransom to purchase.
I think the Crown's are a good way to start. There might be those that say buy the Two-Cherries, Ashley Iles or the Iyoris's. Are they excellent chisels? Yep.. But I read between the lines to see you can't afford them at this point and just need a good set of chisels. If sharpened properly, guided by the right hands and possessing a positive attitude the Crown's will take you to "the promised land". ha..ha..
Good Luck...
sarge..jt
Edited 11/14/2003 2:09:40 AM ET by SARGE
Sarge,
Thanks for the advice. I was kind of leaning toward the longer chisels eventhough the short ones look like they would be real comfortable to use.
I'm rather surprised at your comment about the quality of the steel after re-reading the Dec 99 FW test. The Crown beat out such names as Garret Wade, Robert Sorby, and Harris(one notch better). I know this test report was hotly debated, but it seems to me that with equal treatment during the test, it should show good relative comparisons. Oh well! Let's not rehash that one.
I am also considering the Two Cherries. I think they are only slightly more $$ and rated one notch better in the test.
Are there no good American made chisels?
Thanks for taking the time for the thorough resonse.
Bill
Bill
I an not aware of the test in 99'. Let me clarify what I meant on the Crown steel. Keep in mind I was referring to the Crown morticing chisels. I have not used the Crown bench chisel. I stated that the tips rolled. I did not state under what conditions. I will describe those now.
Just built a work-bench. The larger Crown chisels were used to mortice 1 1/2" wide X 3" long X 3 1/2" deep through mortices. That requires a lot of pounding. The tips eventually rolled, but not one chipped. I did not use a micro-bevel to save time. I stropped pretty often and had to run a high grit re-hone once or twice. That isn't bad for a $24 chisel compared to a $100 Barr. The sockets and handles are superb and extremely well built. The blades are very thick. Would I buy another Crown mortice chisel? You bet'cha.
My opinion is the test was run in 99'. That was 4 years ago. Do all those companies use the same grade steel and design on currrent chisels? Unless I saw a current test by un-biased sources (folks that don't depend heavily on a companies advertising) the only way to compare is either from owner feed-back or use all them yourself.
I have Marples from the 70's. They are not the same as the current. Same with Sorby. I do own the larger Crown motice chisels and they are excellent for the money. I highly recommend Ashley Iles as I have them. I do not have or have not used Two-Cherries. I hear nothing but good, though. Same with several of the Japanese chisels. But, until I use them I will hold my reservations.
I think trying to compare today's chisels with a test for 99' would be similar to comparing current Stanley planes to their dis-continued Bed-Rock design from years ago. It isn't even close. Maybe the chisels are. I don't really know without doing or seeing the current comparison.
Hopefully this helps clarify the comments on the steel used in the Crown. I can tell you about the excellent morticers, but have to hold reservations on the benchs. I just don't know till I try them personally. What I do know is any chisel that is sharp and in the right hands will perform. Some just perform with more agility than others and hold an edge longer to boot.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Bill,
If you're looking for a whole set, then I suggest you take Sarge's advice and at least check out the Ashley Isles. I just received two of the "regular" size (1 1/2" and 2") and man are they nice. Had to tune them up a bit, but the process for both only took 10 or 15 min. Well made and nice heft. A set of 11 (from 1/8" to 2") is 211.55, set of 6 is 100.82, and a set of 4 is 69.45. That's less than 20 bucks each. Don't think anyone else can beat the price/quality factor right now. The individual prices are good, too. If these had been available for the infamous chisel shoot-out, I have a feeling the outcome would've been different.
I have a set of Czech-made chisels which have served me well for a few years, but I have a friend who's getting into woodworking, and I may sell them to him. If I do, they'll be promptly replaced by the Ashley Isles.
R R
I got the set of 6 new American Pattern chisels. They are about 7" long and based on the old American butt chisel. They changed the handles from large and round to a more comfortable tapered size in bubinga. I wanted a set for smaller work as I have medium hands. They are extremely balanced and the steel is great. Found the prep time about the same as you did, 10 to 15 minutes.
Their standard English bench chisels are great also. Ashley Iles is a small English Co. that has been making quality carving tools for a long time. Most are not aware of them. I think word of mouth will change that. For anyone interested the website to buy them in the U.S. is:
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
This is the same company in Manhattan that sells the C & W planes. Poplar WW did a chisel shoot-out in 2001 with 20 different chisels and this was their favorite "hands down". A current review of this chisel is in the Nov. issue of Popular WW on pg. 28 at the bottom.
For anyone shopping for chisels, these are worth a peek.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Thanks to everyone for the great advice and information. I wish the all mighty dollar didn't influence this so much. I'm thinking the Crown is more bang for the buck. But, you've sure got me thinking.
Bill
Hi there Sarge,Do you use a convex bevel on your mortise chisels?
jako
I am not too sure what you mean by using a convex bevel on mortice chisels. Shows how dumb I am.. Are you referring to a convex on the face of the bevel, or a convex on the back where the junction meets the edge like the old Sorby's used to have for fulcrum purposes?
I assume that you are not referring to "hollow grinding" as that would be concave. I definitely don't use a "hollow grind" as I feel it weakens the tip. You might get away with it on bench chisels, but on mortices I feel it weakens what doesn't need to be weak.
Let me tell you how I do handle them and we'll go from there. The Crowns came with a 25* degree bevel. Normally I would flatten the back and that primary bevel. Then I put a 30* to 35* degree secondary bevel on about the last 1/8" at the tip. I start with 30* degrees and test to see if the edge rolls. If it does, I move about a degree at a time till it doesn't up to 35* degrees. The steeper angles are required on mortices to take the licking.
Now, what I did with the Crowns I bought to do this work-bench was hone it at 25* degrees as it came and went to work. I was pushed and didn't have time to add the secondary bevel (similar to micro only larger). This is probably the reason I got roll on the tip of that Crown. That secondary bevel is now sitting at about 34* degrees after the fact.
Not sure if that explains what you originally ask. I am curious if there is a method I am not familar with on a mortice. If so, I want to know and would like to see what I think. I will adapt a new method if it is a better way. ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Sarge, I have a couple of old boxwood handled Marples mortise chisels at least 60 yrs old .The bevel is convex where on a bench chisel it would be concave.They were like that when I bought them a few years ago.I tried them chopping deep mortises after just honing a micro bevel at 32*.They worked so well that I said "why mess with success" and have left them that way!One thing for sure they have a mass of metal behind the cutting edge
jako
That's interesting. Read Mark H's next post if you haven't already. I think he's on to something. I found the comment in Leonard Lee's book he referred to. Guess that goes to the old adage that "they don't make them like they used too".
I got an old junk Marples 1/4" mortice that I don't use. I'm going to experiment with it and round the bevel to see if I can detect any difference. You guys may have dug up some lost art here. ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I really enjoy your posts and always learn something new, though as a beginner, that' easy. Chopping mortices by hand is on my short list of things to learn. Have been reading your "review "with interest. As a beginner to hand tools, I just finished my first reading of Leonard Lee' s book. He describes old mortice chisels rounded at the top of the bevel and says it makes levering out the waste easier. Obviously no first hand experience though.
Edited 11/17/2003 12:05:18 AM ET by Mark4
Mark
As I just noted to jako, I think you guys hit pay-dirt. I dug out my Lee book and found the comment you referred to. The practice got dis-continued accroding to Lee. I will try it as I noted to see the effects with the leverage Lee noted. It sounds solid and have a feeling it will be.
You chose a great book there. Every time I read it, I pick up something I never caught previously. The Work-Bench Book is the same way. There is just a mass amount of information and unless you were a full time student you won't absorb it with a quick reading.
WW'ing remains interesting because nobody will know every detail of every aspect of the craft. There's just too many little things like the one that just came to the surface. This internet can be very useful getting info passed quickly. I have learned a lot of new things since I logged onto this forum a couple of years ago.
Good luck with your WW'ing journey...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Bill,
I searched all over for these after seeing them reviewing in Fine Woodworking, in their now famous and hotly debated chisel review.
Finally found them at the apparently sole US distributor- Klingspor's!
They are only on the web site, and not in the catalog. Good assortment of sizes, but no pre-built sets.
Klingspor's is http://www.woodworkingshop.com
Hope this helps!
John
meikj,
So. There they are! I'll be ..... I could have sworn that I checked every supplier in my boodmarks. Guess I just thought about it. Another senior moment.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill,
There are some pretty good deals on Two Cherries promotional 4 and 6 piece boxed chisel sets right now if you’re interested. I just bought the 6 piece set last week for $84.58 plus shipping at:
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html/fine_tools/two_cherries/two_cherries.htm
The prices shown are discounted an additional 15% at checkout.
By the way, I found out about this deal in a round about way from a post ToolDoc made last week concerning woodworking catalogs. I fully intended to chide him by email for indirectly costing me another $95.00. Needless to say, I now regret not having done so.
LR Smith
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