Does anyone have any experience with a crowned router table insert? I recently discovered my (Rousseau) insert is raised ~1/16″ in the center – with the router installed. I can imagine the plate being designed not to bow with the weight of the router, but this pheonolic doesn’t seem to flex easily. It’s not a noticable problem with narrow stock, but raising door panels requires making the cut in a continuous pass under significant downward pressure otherwise the drift in the panel edge and undercut is noticeable.
(It’s way too late to return the insert…I’ve had it for a couple of years and just noticed this after learning to use a newly purchased door and panel kit.)
Thanks in advance for any advice,
Replies
Is yours the black with grey and red inserts or the red and yellow inserts? Mine is the latter and I asked about it at the WoodWorking show last month. The guy said they have reduced the camber since I bought mine and that it was for keeping the weight of the router from making it sag and causing it to go concave. He said that if I warm it with a heat gun, it may sag a bit. Personally, I think they could have made it a little thicker, added ribs and done more research to make it totally flat. That way, my stiles and rails would have turned out better.
Mine has the red and gray inserts and I bought it about 18 months ago. Hadn't thought about using a heat-gun but it might be worth a try. Considered fastening it to the table from underneath to draw the camber down, but that would make changing bits a real pain.Thanks for the reply. Jeff
I think they could have just made it thicker, then there wouldn't be a problem since it wouldn't sag even with a big PC router. If I can't get mine to go flat, I may just make my own insert. Hardwood or aluminum wouldn't sag.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Rousseau is full of BS. That crown is built into their product and it seems like they offer up different reasons for why they did it. I have the same thing and the packaging claims that it is to keep the stock at the highest point relative to the bit. I even called them when I bought it (before installing) and they assured me this was a benefit, not a negative.
Translated; they built it to sag and tried to pass it off as a benefit. I'm tempted to send it back directly to Rousseau and tell them to give me my money. I suggest you do the same and tell them why that crown is garbage. When everyone else talks about an insert milled perfectly flat, does it make sense that you would have one that would allow your stock to rock? As you noted, it is especially problematic with big pieces that can't simply reference off that high spot at the bit (panels, etc).
I won't ever buy another Rousseau product.
Sorry to hear you're experience was similar to mine, but I'm a little relieved that it's not another episode unique to my shop/skills.
Thanks for the feedback,Jeff
I hear ya. While my skills are OK, I don't need "help" in butchering anything as I do well enough on my own. I'm especially annoyed that in speaking w/ them they assured me the intentional crown is a benefit. I should have trusted my intuition.
Jake
I build my router tables with a very slight crown in them. There are often times when I want to run an edge on stock that is not perfectly flat. The crown keeps the work in contact with the table and allows full contact with the intended cutter depth. A 1/16" crown shouldn't affect your work negatively. You never even noticed it before. If you are using a panel raiser with a back cutter attached, slight variations make a difference, whether it is the flatness of the stock, evenness of the thickness or variation in the table top. There are also other routing operations where a slight bauble will show badly. I've always considered it an advantage to be able to insure good contact with the table at the cutter. A sag just isn't acceptable. A flat table requires flat stock always, a crown works in all situations as long as it isn't so pronounced that the work can rock.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Been away for a couple of days and missed your post. Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate what you say about the narrow stock, but still think I need to find a solution for the door panels. That,or find a way to stop torturing myself over what's probably a minor imperfection.Jeff
GA Jeff,
That is why I bought the Rockler metal insert...same as Norm uses...end of problem.
"That is why I bought the Rockler metal insert..." Or....
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[Hi BG, had to put in .02 for the Veritas table from Lee Valley!]forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,I had to stick a word in here since you mentioned the Lee Valley table top. I bought the LV round stainless steel insert since they recommend that instead of the sqaure top for heavy routers ( > 10lbs). It is crowned, too. Intentionally. I'm sorry, but I don't recall how much. I wouldn't be surprised if the square LV steel top and even most of the aluminum inserts are not crowned. For all, it might be wise to check with the tech consultants at the dealers before ordering if you want to be sure you get an insert that is not crowned....but I would suspect they might be hard to find.
Edited 3/31/2006 3:58 pm ET by bd
They seem to be covering their derriere's with that recommendation. I've read that they recommend reinforcing the flat tabletop (like mine) if you're using a big router, but in the same thread, one or two people who've had one for years reported having no problem with sagging.
I've got the big Freud plunge router in mine. No reinforcement at this time, but possibly when I build a cabinet-style frame for it, I'll run a couple stringers across just for fun.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,Pls lemme know how it works in the long run. I thought about going that way. I like that top. No hardboard top to build & worry about flattening/keeping flat, no insert to fit & level, etc. The only two possible drawbacks I see is the limited size & lack of a miter slot.Did you get the T-slide part of the fence? If you did, is it smooth enough to use as a backer instead of some sort of sled or miter guage mounted fence when doing end grain? Does it have sufficient clearance for panel raising bits, etc.?
Edited 4/1/2006 7:51 am ET by bd
BG, I've had the top for a couple years or more, and I love it! As to lack of miter slot, I see no need for a miter slot, and I never have to clean the dust out of one, LOL. The ability to use magnetic accessories is a plus. A sled takes care of any 90° operations you need to do, and for any other angle, a jig to compensate.
I don't have the fence/sled yet, am using a shop-made fence. My birthday is next month, and I think the fence and sled are what I'll campaign for. Not sure about the panel raising bits, but if you write Mr. Lee, I'm sure he'll go over it with you. One old Knots member I corresponded with had used it to make some pretty big mirror frames with, and he used the sled for the end grain operations, really liked it.
As to advantages, don't forget the universal mounting system. Any ol' router, in and out, no problem.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'm building a router cabinet and haven't purchased the insert, wanted to look for the best way for me to change multi routers with the insert attached. I'm changing from 1/4 to 1/2 routers often. I don't think the top of 1 1/4 " thick will ever sag.
Thanks for all of your input on the subject.
Building Furniture to become Heirlooms.
If the crown in the plate is so pronounced it affects your work, that isn't good. I'd probably just sand the insert flatter and wax it. You don't want the work to be able to rock on the table.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
The crown also presents a problem when routing stock across grain, such as tennons. Even using a sled it doesn't provide for a consistently flat surface across the table.
I'll be getting an aluminum insert soon.
Remove the insert for raised panels, install a piece of 1/2" mdo over the entire top with the appropiate size hole.
mike
Actually, a small crown should not be a problem. It will not affect the depth of cut. However a depression could affect the depth of cut.
My 10 year old Rousseau has a slight crown. My Freud 3 1/4 HP router has been in the insert for all the time and the crown has never been a problem.
Have you ever tried to rout stiles and rails with a crown in the top? Unless you have a way to hold the end down where the router is, they won't all be the same.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I have the same rousseau router insert. The crown is quite pronounced. I used a straight edge and both the infeed and outfeed were 3/32 below the middle of the plate. That is no good if feeding a raised panel that is 30" in length because it reflects the angle of approach in the work, especially if its going to be painted. ( POS. IMHO) I bought a picece of poly carb or lexan (cant remember exactly) clear and milled my own and have since run several hundred ft of hardwood floor t&g with excellent results.
A do not disagree with the other posts about a small crown is okay and can be used as an advantage, but a 3/32 crown is dangerous because of the amount of rock that is possible. As far as I am concerned, it is a poor product.
joe p
For safety & quality cutting on the router table: The stock has to be flat, square and straight, the fence has to be too, and the surface the work it's fed on has to meet the same criteria. If any of the 3 are screwed up, expect adversity especially when routing with cutters that are stuck in the work.
A slotter, for example, will widen its pathway as the work progresses past the cutter. It (the work) may also self feed or kick back if the crown in the table top or bow (in poorly prepared work), is pressed out and then relaxed.
More on router table design at the RT link.
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