Today I took my first cuts with my No 2 and 3 smoothing planes. I had a decent experience planing for the first time but there were a few experiences I’ll need to address. First was chatter. I think my blades need to be sharper and more chamfer. At time the plane would “dig in” to the wood and stop. I think that may be due to my not being clear where the grain was running. The board appears to be flatsawn. Lastly the shavings weren’t long and fluffy they we very crumbly and on the No 3 almost like sawdust. I think this also means I need a sharper iron.
would appreciate all insights into my issues and my thoughts on solutions.
Replies
It would be helpful to know what type and brand of planes you are using however you should be able to get good results out of most new planes, especially Veritas and Lie Nielsen. If you are super sharp, you should be able to get decent results no matter which direction the grain is running, although getting a feel for the ideal direction will be helpful.
So it is most likely a sharpening issue, but do check the plane soles for flatness. Sharpening is certainly not easy!
I have had a lot of success getting sharp with a good sharpening jig (my fav is the Lie Nielsen one) and a set of flattened waterstones. There are many methods - I liked the video series by Mike Pekovich on this site and the videos by Deneb on the Lie-Nielsen website.
Try practicing on a narrow piece of stock (narrower than the plane blade) - this eliminates the issue of corners digging in, and gives less resistance while you work out your methods for sharpening and planing. Good luck and enjoy the journey!
Assuming that your irons are sharp, back off the iron so that it is only taking a thin shaving. #2 and #3 planes don't have the heft of a #4 and #5 so they may tend to chatter more easily. Be sure ALL screws and bolts are tight. Given the type of shavings you are most assuredly dealing with dull blades. All new planes need to be sharpened initially...I found that to be true even with my Lie-Nielsen low angle jack plane when new.
Thanks for the affirmation that I had irons that weren’t sharp enough. I’ve gone back and honed them. These are older Stanley No 2 and 3 planes. Definitely not new. I’ve working on flattening the soles of both planes and I think they’re flat enough to work with sharp blades. Are their recommended ways to check sole flatness? I’ve been using a pencil to mark the sole and then run it across 600 grit sandpaper to see if any markings are left.
sooo....flatness...only needs to be at the toe, in front of the mouth, and at the heel. I flatten my plane soles with 120 grit sandpaper that has been double taped to the cast iron top of my table saw. I mark the bottom with a sharpie before flattening. Then I stop when the marks disappear in those areas --I am trying to create a great working plane --not a collectible.
I don't know what year your planes are (here is good link--https://woodandshop.com/identify-stanley-hand-plane-age-type-study/)
Hock Tools make great new blades for #3's and larger. They are thicker and make of superior steel--get the 01's (Ron Hock himself likes the O1 better than A2's--the former hold a sharper edge as the carbide particles are smaller.
I hollow grind them so I don't have to sharpen the whole bevel each time the blade needs attention. I take them to 8000 grit and that is plenty sharp for planing.
Thanks for the info and tip on flattening the sole and knowing when to stop. I’ve been using 600 grit and really taking a long time so I went to 400. I imagine 120 grit will be much quicker!😄 I’ll try the sharpie instead of pencil.
Grain Direction - look at the edge of the board. Is the grain generally parallel to the faces or is it diagonal? If diagonal, you want it rising away from the end you are planing from. At any rate try turning the board around.
Chatter - Start planing with the blade retracted and advance it as you plane. Start with thin shavings and deepen as needed. Check that the chip breaker is tight to the blade and the blade to tight the plane and the frog tight to the plane. Try these easy fixes first. Sharpness should be a given. Do you know how to sharpen? Three tests I use are (1) slicing paper (2) digging into a fingernail with a light touch, (3) looking at the edge for bright spots. If you see some, you are not sharp.
Along my thoughts (but better stated than I would have). It is possible to have the chip breaker either too loose or too tight. From using it, you will find the sweet stop of proper adjustment.
I struggled a little when I first started 7 years ago. The difference between just getting the finest of shavings and a heavy cut doesn't require much rotation of the dial once the yoke has engaged in that direction (think minutes on a clock of rotation).
Thanks for the info on grain direction. I do think I may be trying to take too large of a cut. I’ve watched videos on sharpening and am trying to follow them. I don’t really have a test to tell sharpness. That probably doesn’t help me.
Try my sharpness tests mentioned in the previous response.
Based on what you described, and based on the fact that they are older planes, I suggest you look in 2 areas. 1 - Sharpness of the plane. It seems to me that your blades are not as sharp as they need to be. the vintage planes are made of high carbon steel, so if they are not pitted, getting them super sharp is fairly easy to do with your method of choice. I would also check to make sure the backs of the blades are flat. I have yet to find a vintage blade where the back was flat. The other thing I would look at is the chip breaker. Make sure that when it is screwed onto the blade, where the breaker meets the back of the blade right before the cutting edge that there are no gaps/ daylight shining through. The Edge of the chip breaker may need work to ensure it mates with the back of the blade properly and does its job supporting the blade. Roland Johnson has a wonderful video series on restoring and tuning vintage planes on this website. He takes you through sharpening, flattening the back of the blade, tuning the chip breaker and the rest of the plane. I would recommend watching the series, and doing the same things Rollie does. You will likely find your planes work much better. I tune every single vintage plane I come across using his techniques and they always end up working better.
I’ve worked on flattening the backs of the irons. So the chip breaker goes on the back and not next to the bevel? I hadn’t realized that! I’ll look up Roland Johnson and the video series. Thanks much!
Well, that'll cause chatter alright.
You don't need to go nuts flattening the back of the iron. Look up "ruler trick."
The learning curve is steep at first, but it will all come together pretty quick.
Thanks, I’m familiar with the ruler trick.👍
Yes, and the bevel faces down.
As for flattening the back, I mark the back, near the edge with a sharpie. It should all dissapear. I confirm flatness visually by looking at the reflection as I gently rock it. A tube light (fluorescent/LED) is ideal. I look for distortion as the reflection nears the edge. Also you should get a nice even burr when honing the bevel if the back is flat. And you can camber the edges with finger pressure as you hone the bevel. This helps prevent dig in. For a smoothing plane it the camber can be quite small. Hold a piece of wood against the edge and look for a wee bit of light at the corners.
Hope this helps.
Appreciate the instruction and all your help with sharpness measures.
Lots of good tips. Sharpening plane blades and chisels to mirror polished finish is not complicated but it does require practice. Same with plane set up. Give it some time. Ron Hocks book on sharpening is excellent resource.
IMO, ALL plane blades need attention, whether new or old. Take the time once (flatten and polish back, grind to desired angle, hone and polish bevel) and subsequent touch ups will be quick.
Also, I have found that not all planes work equally well. I have umm… more than 20 planes (either my wife finally understands that they are all needed for different jobs or she has given up asking why) and for some inexplicable reason, some just give better results than others. I used to think I just needed to fiddle a bit more with the set up but now I accept it and move on. Good luck.
Thanks to all for the replies. Just a follow up that I was able to make smooth long and thin cuts with the No. 2 and 3 plane. 😁 it certainly was important to have the bevel down!😄 I also set the blade per instructions here about incrementally advancing the blade until I get a shaving. Lastly I hadn’t anticipated how much force a good bench needs to withstand when planing the face with a No 3, or even 2! Part of my chatter problem was using a B&D workmate table for my bench. I also think I needed to get lower and more “behind” and not “over” the plane.
The soles needed a little more flattening too, thanks for the sharpie trick. I’m glad to see my irons were sharp enough. This is learning on a whole different level than computers!😄
A shaky work bench will certainly produce chatter. Glad you got sharp. Cheers.
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2021/03/03/restoring-a-block-plane-ep-6