Replies

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 23, 2003 08:46pm | #1

   ASK

      Even 1/4" MDF and tempered hard-board are pretty stiff. I would use the wiggle board as you know the bend properties of that. Hopefully Dan Kornfield of Odessey Design will wander along and see this thread. He does a temendous amount of bending and can answer properly.

   Good Luck...

   sarge..jt

1. 
   ASK | Oct 23, 2003 09:01pm | #2

   Sarge,

   Thanks for you thoughts.

   I agree with the wiggle board but was looking of other possiblities. I guess I'll have to find some other projects to use the rest of the 4x8

   Thanks

   ASK

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 23, 2003 09:21pm | #3

   ASK

      I get it local Atlanta for about $20 a sheet. It doesn't hurt to have extra for the next time. Save you time going to get it and you'll think how incredibly smart you were by purchasing the extra. ha..ha..

      I always ty to turn a negative to a positive.

   sarge..jt

1. 
   ASK | Oct 23, 2003 09:24pm | #4

   Your right. Maybe I'll make the dining room table in an oval instead or a rectangle

   ASK

2. 
   jackiechan | Oct 24, 2003 05:42am | #5

   ASK,

    

   Wiggle board isn’t the best materials for a table skirt, for a couple of reasons – first is that you’ll have to contend with the facets that may show up at the wood’s hinge points as it is bent around the form.  This will be further compounded when a veneer is added (and one should be to give a finished look to the piece) to the outside of the curve, as it will just amplify the facet.  To avoid this, the finished curve will require a fair amount of sanding, which is no fun and it is far too easy to sand right through a veneer layer. 

    

   MDF and masonite are both too stiff for anything but large radius curves.

    

   The best option for your table’s skirt would be lamination bending.  This is the gluing up of thin layers of wood stacked on top of each other, and bent/clamped over a form to of the desired curve.  This technique gives you a very strong and stable finished product.

    

   The materials you will need for this procedure are: plywood or MDF to make the bending form (I prefer plywood), the wood that you would like to use for the skirt, clamps, glue (more on this in a minute), clear packing tape, and whatever you'll need to draw your template (e.g. pencil, compass, etc...).

   Your first step is to layout the curve on a piece of 3/4" plywood.  Cut the piece out (should be half moon shaped) staying just outside of the line.  Sand and smooth the wood right to the line - remember that any bump or dent in the edge of the form will transfer itself to the final curved skirt.  Use this first piece of plywood as a template to cut out three more pieces - staying wide of the line again.  Stack each of the new piece onto the original, and with a flush cuting router bit with bearing, bring all edges flush.  To keep the pieces together while routing, secure the original template and use either screws or carpet tape to hold the others in place.  When finished, stack up all of the pieces and screw them together - keep all screws at least 4" away from the edge of the form.  Only five or six screws are needed, the form won't be under the same extreme pressures that a steam bending form would be subjected to. 

   Using a wide spade or forstner bit, drill a series of holes in the form spaced evenly apart on the smoothed side approx. two inches from the edge.  The holes need to be large enough for your clamp heads to fit into. 

   Place packing tape on the edge of the form (this keep the glue from sticking), and then secure the form either in a strong vice or clamped to the work bench.

   Now its time to cut the layers of wood to be bent.  This is usually best done on a table saw, but with each piece being 2.5" wide it should be done with healthy caution.  To achieve the best possible results with a lamination bend, multiple thin layers of wood are more stable than fewer thicker pieces.  If possible aim to get each layer to be approx.' 1/16" thick.  All pieces should be cut longer and wider than you need - they will be trimmed and sanded once the glue has cured. 

   Now, you have your form done and the layers cut - you are two steps away from a perfect laminate bend.  Cut some scrap blocks of wood with one side concave to match the outer radius of the bend stack.  When everything is being glued up, use these clamp blocks (one under each clamp) to evenly distribute the clamping force. 

   Finally it's time to glue.  Which glue should be used?  I use either Plastic Resin Glue (Weldwood), or Unibond 800 which you can order from Vacuum Press Systems (http://www.vacupress.com) in Maine.  Two part epoxy also works well, but cures very fast which leave little/no room for error.  Which ever glue you choose, follow the instructions and safety precautions to the letter! 

   Let's glue!  Using a roller, brush, or plastic spreader apply a even layer of adhesive on the top and bottom of each piece - Remember, no glue on the outsides of the top and bottom pieces!  With all of the pieces lined up, place the center of the stack onto the center of the bending form and apply one clamp and glue block.  Now continue clamping from the center outwards being sure to keep the layers aligned.  Finish clamping and you're set!!

   Once the glue has fully cured, remove the skirt from the form and sand/smooth and cut it to the final dimensions. 

   This whole procedure moves more quickly than it seems - you may find that most of the time was spent creating the form!

   If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!

   Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 24, 2003 10:26am | #6

   Dan

      I knew you'd show in the nick of time. ha..ha..

   sarge..jt

1. 
   ASK | Oct 24, 2003 03:32pm | #8

   Sarge,

   I just posted a reply to Dan, (Jackie Chan) with some info about the cad software I use to do all my drawing

   ASK

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 24, 2003 05:56pm | #9

   ASK

      I read it. A number seem to use the CAD here that I see mention in post. I am a computer illiterate with help from a spouse that is a programmer. This seems to be a very useful resource for design purposes. Unfortunately, I am limited to the old fashioned way. A cup of coffee, a note-pad, a pencil and a lot of vivid imagination. ha..ha..

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

1. 
   ASK | Oct 24, 2003 09:19pm | #10

   Sarge,

   the program can be had for about $60.00 at one of the office supply places: Staples, etc.

   It's not really hard to use and the User's Guide is well written.

   If you find yourself with the software some day and need some help give me a yell. I spend about 8 hours a day using it.

   ASK

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 24, 2003 09:57pm | #11

   ASK

      It does sound interesting. My wife is capable of installing it. I am allowed to turn the computer on and off, but anything else I have to have permission. She trust me totally with a sharp tool, but considers me armed and dangerous when I sit in front of a computer. ha..ha..

      Seriously, it does sound interesting. Maybe I will buy "her" that program for Xmas. :>)

   sarge..jt

3. 
   ASK | Oct 24, 2003 10:31pm | #12

   Sarge,

   Let me know if your wife gets the software. I am convinced that I could teach anyone how to use it. I also think that anyone who works with numbers and geometry and spends time drawing what they want to build (woodworker) on a regular basis can learn to use it.

   ASK

4. 
   shopdoc | Oct 25, 2003 03:50am | #13

   Ask,

         Hey if Sarge isn't interested I sure could use some help with Quick Cad. Unlike other Auto Desk software I have (Auto Sketch) it didn't come with a tutorial so I'm kind of lost in figuring this thing out. I sure would like to be able to use QC instead of my sketches on the bench top. Help!

                                                         Steve (Doc)

5. 
   ASK | Oct 27, 2003 04:06pm | #17

   Doc,

   Let me know if you get Quick Cad. I'll try and lay out a step by step process on how to draw something send it to you. I am not familiar with Auto sketch so I don't know what you may know already.

   ASK

6. 
   shopdoc | Oct 28, 2003 04:24am | #19

   ASK,    I already have Quick Cad and have had very little luck with it, So any help you could provide would be very much appreciated. My experience with Auto Sketch is somewhat limited and confined to release 1 and 2. When I looked at release 7 it was completely different and since it required a new learning curve I decided to try QC. Again any help would be appreciated.          Steve (Doc)

7. 
   ASK | Oct 28, 2003 05:44pm | #20

   Doc,

   Which version of Quick Cad do you have. As far as I know there was only V 7 & 8.

   They are pretty much the same with a few new features. As I said priviously, I will try and put together a "tutorial" which you can follow.

   ASK

8. 
   shopdoc | Oct 28, 2003 07:50pm | #21

   ASK,    I have version 8. Looking forward to the tutorial.    Thanks,  Steve(Doc)

9. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 25, 2003 07:16am | #15

   ASK

      Thanks... I will mention that to her. It sounds like something she could have an interest in and I could benefit from. She rules the computer and I rule the shop. With the benefits that could be had, we might find common ground.

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

2. 
   jackiechan | Oct 25, 2003 04:36am | #14

   ... neither snow, nor rain, nor gloom of night, or twist of board, nor dull planer blade will keep me from my appointed rounds! :)Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 25, 2003 07:19am | #16

   Dan

      I knew you would show. You always do and obviously have a 6th sense. I figure you're out collecting all those large paychecks then hit the computer to see if the cavalry is needed in any "hot-spots". ha..ha..

   Have a great week-end Dan... and thanks for the assist..

   sarge..jt

2. 
   ASK | Oct 24, 2003 03:30pm | #7

   Dan,

   Thanks.

   I've actually used the procedure you describe with great success. My original question about using MDF or masonite was to see if anyone had used either of these successfully. I have also used wiggle board successfully with 1/6" veneer using two layers on the inside and outside.

   On another topic.

   I am an architect who got caught up in making my own furniture about 8 years ago. Since I spend my days drawing with cad software on the computer all of my designs and details for my furniture are drawn and printed before hand. The convience to this is that I can draw at any scale for general design and print at full scale for the details. It also allows me not to have to calculate some of the more complicated angles etc. I just drew them and the software tells me the length, angle, etc. I use a very inexpensive program called Quickcad which is an Autodesk produce which they bought from someone else a few years ago. Although I've been using it for about 15 years I don't think that it is a very difficult program to learn. I print everything on either a laser printer or an inkjet if I need color on 8-1/2 X 11 paper and tape them together to get bigger sheets.

   If anyone out there is interested let me know

   ASK

3. 
   KyleZ | Oct 27, 2003 04:12pm | #18

   Dan

   Awesome post!!  You made using bending forms seem almost easy.  Thanks

   Kyle

   Edited 10/27/2003 9:15:20 AM ET by Kyle