I have a basement shop with a concrete floor. I live in the south so cold is not a major problem. I would like to put in a floor that would be easier on these old feet and knees.
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Have seen several shops with OSB as a floor and read posts in May on this subject. Most seem to use 2×4 sleepers with OSB or plywood nailed or screwed to the sleepers. (Over the years I have tested for moisture by taping a plastic bag over the concrete, leaving it for several days, then removing. I have never had any moisture under the bag. So, am assuming moisture is not a major consideration).
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My shop occupies only part of the basement so I would like to minimize the floor height difference.
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1. Must the OSB be attached to sleepers or does the lack of sleepers defeat the cushioning effect?
2. Can 1x material be used for sleepers instead of 2x?
3. Do the sleepers have to be glued to the floor?
4. Some have used Styrofoam between sleepers… is it to insulate or is it to provide more support?
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Any advice appreciated.
Replies
Jim I would recommend interlocking rubber or rubber composition mats about 1/2" thick. I have them over about 1/3 of the area of my shop floor which is 330.75 Sq. Ft. They work real good & I can pick them up if necessary. They are much easier to install & stay in place real well. You can trim them to fit as I did around 1 bench leg. I can even roll my Belsaw planer out of the corner & right up on top of them of course I have 4 $15 dual locking casters on the planer base. You may find these mats at Sam's I found mine at Costco & as I understand it both stores are owned by the same parent company.
Edited 6/29/2008 11:40 am ET by Originalbart
Thanks for your reply. I am using a variety of rubber mats now but I may just upgrade to the mats you describe. Probably would be much cheaper than installing some sort of wood floor.
What about using Dricore Panels?
http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx
I just use rubber mats everywhere. Pull them up if I need to move machines. The type with the holes collect sawdust. You don't have to sweep up the shop floor for weeks. Easy on dropped tools, not so good with a spilled can of varnish, undamaged by floods.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Thanks for your reply. The Dri-Core panels sound promising. Do you know how much they cost? The closest city to me is Atlanta and there appears to be one vendor for Dri-Core; however, shows they are "stocking" whatever that means. I need to cover approximately 400 sq. ft. or about 120 panels.
I don't know the current price of Dricore panels. Home Depot carries them around here. They also carry the 3'x3' interlocking mats I use. I find them very comfortable to work on. They are murder with high heals, though, and one of the cats doesn't like them. Some odor, like a tire, when new but it's gone quickly. I would buy a couple every now and then. Now, most of the shop is covered with them.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I would put down a vapor barrier regardless. It doesn't take much moisture for the wood to get unhappy. If it were me, and I didn't need insulation (which seems to be the case for you), I'd go with the Dri-Core panels (you can get them at Home Depot). Cheap and easy.
"Must the OSB be attached to sleepers or does the lack of sleepers defeat the cushioning effect?"
You don't need sleepers unless you want to insulate. But DO NOT omit a vapor barrier!
"Can 1x material be used for sleepers instead of 2x?"
Yes.
"Do the sleepers have to be glued to the floor?"
No, but you will obviously get more creaking if they're not.
"Some have used Styrofoam between sleepers... is it to insulate or is it to provide more support?"
Primarily for insulation, but they also offer some support. Extruded styrofoam (the pink or blue panels) can handle about 60 psi. Expanded styrofoam (the little white beads that are adhered together) about half that.
-Steve
Thanks for your reply to each of my questions. Regarding the vapor barrier, there seems to be a lot of opinion, pro and con, so not sure which way I will go with that. Dri-Core sounds promising although I don't know the cost....my shop is about 400 sf.
I like the idea of something like tongue/groove OSB laid on the floor without sleepers simply because it does not raise my floor too much in relation to the rest of the basement.... and probably not as expensive as Dri-Core. If I decided to use sleepers, probably would go with 1x material. Assume sleepers also permits more air circulation under floor.
Dust collection in the floor is not a consideration.
If I recall correctly, Dri-Core works out to be around $2.50 or so per sq ft.
Any stories you hear about vapor barriers gone bad can be traced to one thing: improper installation. Seriously. People install vapor barriers so that stud walls end up on the wet side. And then they rot. Duh.
Go to http://www.buildingscience.com/ for enough information to make your head swim.
-Steve
Many thanks to all for a lot of very good information. Will post my experiences after I make a decision and install.
I'd recommend the rubber mats as well. That way you can keep your machinery on the solid concrete and run the mats around them. A heavy tablesaw or planer on an OSB floor that is set on sleepers will rock from side to side due to the "give" in the OSB - unless you place solid blocking under those areas. It may also increase the noise of the machines as the vibrations set the floor in motion.
OSB simply laid on the concrete won't accomplish much in terms of adding cushion. It'll still be hard and unyielding. Plus, OSB "flakes" off. I have it in one section of my shop and wish I didn't..
If you use the Dri-core product, you'll likely still have some wobbling of heavy machinery. If you keep the machines on the concrete and run the Dri-core against them, you'll work bent over because the Dri-core is about an inch thick - effectively lowering the height of the machine tops.
I'd steer clear of laying plastic down over the concrete to create a vapor barrier. That can trap moisture between the slab and the concrete, and mildew and mold can grow in that environment.
If you'd like a vapor barrier, use epoxy paint directly on the slab, then obtain some rubber padding and lay that up against the heavy machinery. You'd have the best of all worlds - a vapor barrier, cushioning underfoot, and the machines will be on a very solid surface (concrete). Plus, by not placing the mats under the machines, you'll save a bit on materials. If you'd like the machine-top height to not change, place 1/2 inch OSB pads under the machine bases, matching the thickness of the rubber matting.
One caveat: some of the rubber mats give off an odor. Make sure it's something you can live with before you buy and lay 400 square feet of it...
Zolton
If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
"That can trap moisture between the slab and the concrete, and mildew and mold can grow in that environment."
??? The slab is the concrete. And no, concrete will not support mildew growth.
-Steve
Steve,
I mis-typed. I meant to say that moisture can be trapped between the plastic and the concrete slab - and that can create an environment conducive to mold and mildew growth.
In my experience, concrete can and does support mildew and mold growth. I've seen it in the corners of many basements...
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
"In my experience, concrete can and does support mildew and mold growth. I've seen it in the corners of many basements..."
So have I, but it's not the concrete that's supporting the mold/mildew. It's something on top (e.g., a spill of some kind, paint, etc.). Mold and mildew need food, usually in the form of carbohydrate, and concrete doesn't provide any.
-Steve
jim1941,
I bought my Dri-Core about three years ago right after FWW did an article on the best floor covering and awarded Dri-Core a 'best buy'. At that time it cost $1.25 per square foot at HD. It's overall thickness is 3/4"...that includes the 1/2" OSB with the glued on 1/4" plastic nubby bottom. They slap together quite quickly and you can do a portion of the shop at a time. Marvelous on the shins and feet, I weigh 350 and feel only the slightest give under my feet. I put it in front of the workbench and lathe to get the biggest bang for the buck, it works. I don't think the cabinet saw would affect the flooring but I don't know that for sure.The plastic allows for air to pass though if any moisture accumulates. I kinda enjoy having the smell, look and feel of a wood floor in a wood shop...even if I can't afford the real stuff and my floor looks like a plate of leftovers....
Edited 6/30/2008 11:45 am ET by BG
I put Dri-Core in part of my basement last fall. Cost was just under $6 per 2'x2' panel ($1.25 per sq. ft). A similar option I saw online is a roll of plastic waffle material you roll out then put whatever you want on top - T&G plywood, OSB or Advantech usually. Cost seemed to be about the same as Dri-Core if OSB was used, but might be quicker to install in a large area, or allow using a different top.
The Dri-Core replaced carpet & pad which had been on that floor for many years, I believe (we've been in the house 4 years). Had to pull up the carpet when we got some basement flooding. Freak flooding situation, don't think it had happened before in the 23 year history of the house.
What I was looking hard at was the interlocking foam panels with indoor/outdoor carpet on top. With these, if it got wet again, I could just pull them up, clean & dry them, then reinstall. Not willing to spend the extra $$, though.
Not sure what will happen with the Dri-Core if we get another similar flood. Water never got more than about 1/2" deep in the finished part of the basement, but I bet that would still require pulling the panels up to let every thing dry out.
Don
If you raise your floor with sleepers, you might also consider running your dust collection ducting under the floor.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
"Sleeper" generally means 2X material lying flat (it's "sleeping" rather than "standing"). You'd be hard-pressed to get much in the way of dust collection through that amount of space. ;-)
-Steve
Didn't know that. What if the 2x s sleep standing up?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
"What if the 2x s sleep standing up?"
Then that means they're horses.
-Steve
Thanks for your reply. Although there are a lot of advantages to dust collection in the floor, I do not want to raise my floor too high in relation to the floor in the rest of my basement.
Have floated several floors made from 3/4" T&G exterior plywood using polyurethane glue on the T&G joints and biscuits plus polyurethane glue on the ends over 1" blueboard insulation. If point loading is an issue, you can get high density foam designed for use under concrete. Just a heavy duty version of floating a hardwood laminate floor.
Thanks for your reply and sorry to be so late acknowledging. I think your suggestion would work for me. I believe the heaviest machine I have is my Powermatic tablesaw (650 lbs) and that load is probably spread out enough not to be a problem.
Jim,
I used OSB as a flooring in my shop. I first put down 7 mil. plastic then 1/4" carpet pad. I then fastened the OSB with those "cartridge activated" fasteners. It is not flawless but it really is nice. It gives just enough "bounce" to ease those joints and it's very forgiving on dropped edge tools. Things roll around very nicely on it (which they do not on rubber mats).
The best thing about it is probably the cost---dirt cheap!!! It goes down pretty easy. My floor was old when I applied the OSB; the concrete was over 18 years old. Some of the fasteners bent over when shot in but with an average of about 7 to 8 fasteners per sheet it's now been down for ?? (several) years with absolutely no problems. I'm real happy with it.
Regards,
Mack
"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
Edited 7/2/2008 12:26 am ET by Mackwood
Mack, thanks for your reply and sorry to be so late acknowledging. After reading everyone's suggestions, I am leaning toward the OSB. I like the "dirt cheap" aspect. My only decision seems to be what sort of underlayment, if any.... sleepers, poly, foam board, carpet pad, etc.
I can empathize with shooting nails into the concrete... my floor is about 18 years old and I tried nailing into it a few years ago and about half the nails bent.
Jim - I did a similar job. I used 3/4" ply for the sleepers, in 4" strips. I purchased the pink T&G foam insulation in 3/4", which I cut into, IIRC, 12" wide sections. Laid the ply out on, thinking fast here, LOL, 16" centers, put the foam inbetween, and covered it with 3/4" underlayment. Never having had a water issue in 20+ years (we're on a glacial gravel deposit, you should see the grass ;-) ), I skipped the plastic. The ply is screwed to the sleepers, which are just laid (layed, damn, I can't remember) in place.
I move stuff like a Unisaw on this (on a mobile base), along with bandsaw, drill press, etc with no problem.
A BIG improvement on creature comfort.
Ed...
Thanks for your reply. Think I am definitely going with the ply or OSB floor. Will probably put down a vapor barrier even though my basement is sitting atop granite and is 18 years old (never a water problem). Am pouring an addition to the shop of about 250 sf and am not sure how long the concrete must cure before covering. This may be the subject of a later posting.
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