Hello,
This is probably going to be a hard topic for discussion. I want to get into custom built kitchen cabinets and furniture. I will go ahead and point out up front that my wife loves building woodworking projects with me, so that is a win-win in my book.
Next, comes the nitty, gritty part. We want to build custom kitchen cabinets. An example would be like a traditional 36” cabinet with doors. One of the things we would like to do is build a cabinet like that, but instead of doors, have drawers, either 2 or 3 for pots and pans.
The other thing we want to do is build a rolling island, with a built-in microwave area, a small mixer cabinet that when you open the door, has a shelf that you can pull out for using a stand mixer.
We have different ideas like that, and in theory, seems doable, however, would be nice to actually design one from scratch.
Lastly, we are looking for software that we can try before you buy that works on Mac. We have a 16” Macbook Pro Big Sur OS. I don’t want to use the Windows Bootcamp feature, if I can help it.
Is there anyone else that designs custom cabinets and furniture, that also uses a Mac, and can give me suggestions about design software?
Thanks,
Chris
Replies
Is this a business you are looking to start? There are a lot of companies making cabinets, and it's become extremely high tech. There is a lot of very expensive machinery out there to make cabinets faster, better, and cheaper. The days of someone with a regular woodworking shop being able to compete in that environment are gone, in my opinion.
As a CNKBA Certified professional Kitchen Designer I will echo John C2 in that if your interest is in making this a business you will have a tough road to hoe. It's hard enough getting today's consumer to invest in premium custom commercial cabinets vs cheap RTA Chinese imports and IKEA junk let alone small shop made custom cabinets. This is also not something you can do in your garage, since most consumers would not be willing to patiently wait while you make one or two cabinets at a time, you need space to be able to build 10-30 cabinets at once and that is a lot of shop real estate. You also should have a dedicated finishing area with a commercial spray booth to safely apply the conversion finishes to give cabinets increased durability. My grandfather gave up making custom kitchen cabinets 60 years ago as a losing proposition in favor of remodeling with commercial cabinets, but there are still a few out there, some of whom post here so maybe you can make it work.
Now if that diatribe was all for naught and all you want to do is build your own kitchen cabinets, the two leading 3D design software packages are Sketchup and Design 360 from Autocad both are capable of doing what you want, both have their advantages and disadvantages, and both have a learning curve before you will be able to successfully design complex cabinetry. If you happen to be familiar with Autocad, although since you are asking this question that's not likely, you will prefer Design 360 since it is by Autocad and has a similar interface.
esch5995 re. AutoCAD. I've used this for a long time...not sure what Design 360 is referring to. Do you mean Fusion 360?
Yes my bad. My son uses it, I use Sketchup, but he also uses Autocad as a Mechanical Design Engineer and found it easier. He keeps trying to get me to switch but I remain more comfortable with Sketchup.
I’ve heard of Autocad, but have never used any type of Autocad program.
Mostly, I want to build the cabinets for my personal kitchen. For now, we are drawing the cabinet and layout details on graph paper.
The problem you are faced with is any software you try will have a learning curve that may make it impractical if this is a project you want to undertake sooner than later, but if you intend to continue building its well worth the while to learn.
Both software packages have free versions available for personal use only so I suggest you take them for a test drive. There are plenty of videos, including here on FW about Sketchup, the de facto standard for woodworkers for years to help ease the process and I assume Fusión 360 has them as well.
https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal
Sketchup is available either as a 30day free trial for the pro version or free for personal use Web based version. I do not suggest doing the 30 free trial unless you thing you may be willing to lay out the shekels to purchase the pro version because the interface of the Web version is entirely different and it will just confuse you.
https://www.sketchup.com/plans-and-pricing
I've never taken the plunge with design software. I just don't want to put the time in to learn the software. I use graph paper and a variety of drafting tools to do all of my designing.
I am a member of the shrinking group John_C2 and esch5995 mention; I operate a one-man shop making custom cabinetry with woodworking tools (big woodworking tools, but still not beam saws and CNCs... nothing wrong with those but they are not part of my business plan and model). I do all my design work on my Macbook using SketchUp.
I use SketchUp for both my design and construction drawings. It has shortcomings compared to an AutoCAD-style program but it's very good for fast drawings for both clients or yourself. In a few minutes I can draw a kitchen of cabinets in elevation for a client to show them what their kitchen will look like. In a little more time I can turn those into annotated drawings for myself with construction details and part dimensions. For clients who want it, I can also push/pull things into a 3rd dimension for a simple rendering (and I believe with some plug-ins make them more lifelike).
If this is a professional endeavor you're thinking of starting, buying kitchen design books and cabinetmaking books (Taunton has several quality offerings) will be very helpful to learn standard sizes for various things, layout tips for efficient, useful kitchens and whatnot.
I would echo the other responders in that it is a very hard way to make money. If this is something you're thinking of as a money making venture, know there are steep learning curves both making cabinetry and running a small business. I don't mean to discourage; it is a fulfilling occupation. But it is not easy and I find myself more and more often considering closing up shop.
On a related topic. Kitchen design can be more complicated than most people think, the adage that "the Devil is in the details" certainly applies to kitchen remodeling. The last thing you want is to put all the effort and money into building your cabinets only to find out the drawer in the cabinet against the wall can't open because it hits the door casing or the one in the corner hits the dishwasher handle or the doors on that cabinet with the rollout shelves can't open past 90° so the shelves can't rollout. I might suggest picking up a copy of the NKBA book Kitchen Planning, Guidelines, Codes, Standards or something similar before investing too much time into this, it might just save you a lot of heartache down the road.
As if the above emails haven't been scary enough, think about this. If you're going to sell your design services you'll probably have to provide color renderings to the perspective customer. Even if you're just going to provide the cabinetry you'll have to include material samples for door and drawer hardware as well as the particular wood species in the rendering package.
Selling a design takes a lot of work and that's all before you actually start cutting wood.
I’m in the middle of building cabinets for my kitchen. I’m designing the kitchen and cabinets on my iPad with a pencil in Shapr3D, which now has a Mac version as well. So far I like it much more than sketchup, and I find it more intuitive than autocad as a beginner cad user. I don’t do this for a living, and with how slow I am there’s no way I could.
I'm going to go down the naive and positive route here, whilst also seconding the advice that this is a job for a big shop.
They say that a man who loves his job never works a day in his life. If you love doing it and are prepared to work for very little money then you can do the work just as well as a large shop. It will take you longer, but you will be able to be a bit more flexible.
So, because this is an interesting question and bearing in mind I am a doctor, not a professional woodworker, if I were DETERMINED to do this...
Start with software that will work with CNCs. For woodwork this probably means Fusion 360. It works on Mac and is compatible with most machines on the market.
Design your basic cabinets, drawers and doors by copying ones from a big box store. They are built that way because it works. Don't re-invent the wheel.
You will NEED a decent CNC - something like one of the better AVID machines, but you don't need a 3 phase monster either - the CNC is going to be doing the stuff that takes forever to do with a router and a jig like holes for shelf pins and hinge mounts on doors, fixing holes for Knockdown fittings too. All can be done with a a bit the size of your hinge pin holes (usually 5mm) so really expensive CNC options like tool changers will not be needed. You can get away with about USD 10K of machine and accessories.
You will need to cut the cabinet pieces to size on a table saw. The CNC can do this too, but it is probably too slow. A decent size slider with a scoring blade is essential. A single person can easily cut a full sheet to size without help on one of those machines. USD 6K or so.
Bits that the CNC does not do well like deeper drill holes into the side of cabinets can be done with jigs. They might take a day or two to make so they will last, but then you can make cabinets with fewer errors fast enough to earn a tolerable living.
Doors can be done in a similar fashion - you will have to design a basic door and set up your machines to do lots of each part all at once. Most of the hassle of making doors is the constant tool changes - you will need at least two routers and router tables to avoid this, but with quality bits, you can leave them set up to their one job really well. Quick test to check they've not moved and on you go. You don't need fancy tables or lifts as adjustment is going to be occasional.
You will need several species of wood and options with veneered wood panels and solid wood panels.
If you are buying a LOT of wood it might be better to have it milled to size off site - that may well cost about the same for bulk lots as it would to buy the raw timber in small units. If you design your units to use standard thicknesses that your local supplier often has in stock then you will save even more.
Learn to apply a catalysed laquer finish and have the room in which to do it properly and safely.
With that, you can set up and could probably sell your work. Think about how you would make it differently from the big boys. Perhaps with the CNC you could offer curved corner units? What about inlaid doors? What customisation could you add that sets your work apart?
I have nothing to offer in this space, but should just like to thank all the contributors for their well stated opinions. It was quite a pleasurable read.
I'm likely never going to make a kitchen for all the reasons stated above - I'll probably pay someone who is set up to do it efficiently and go on making the detail pieces I prefer to make!
I uses Sketchup on my MacBook Pro. It works absolutely fine and its free!! I've been using different versions of it now for about 10 years and I'm very happy it does everything I want for some quite complex furniture design.
I would say that when starting I found it not very intuitive and there are still many things that I think if I were to work at it could be done better, but I take the practical approach - I want to produce plans for making furniture, not works of art in themselves.
My version "Sketchup Make 17.2.2554" is downloaded, but I think many people now use the web version. I'm sure you know that you can try it for free, and there's tons of on-line help, but you might need to persevere at first to get the hang of it. (Or maybe not!)
You could open the attached file in Sketchup to see how I use it....
Hi Chris,
I use fusion 360 and it works for me on my MacBook Pro. Most everything starts on a sketch on paper prior to that. Programs are nice in that changes can quickly be made, and clear renderings made available to a client, but when just starting out it’s honestly hard to beat pencil and paper along with some basic drafting tools.
As others have stated it’s a competitive field of work, and can be difficult reaching the target clientele especially when starting out, but I would never discourage anyone from starting something. Just going in with both eyes wide open. Building your own kitchen island first would be a great place to start. The features you describe wanting in your cabinets is easily achievable. Good luck!
Edited to note I just noticed the original post is a year and a half old. Wonder how the kitchen turned out?
“[Deleted]”
Steep learning curve on any kitchen design software worth having. That stuff is sort of like Quickbooks, Quickbooks won't make you an accountant and drafting software won't make you a draftsman or a designer.
Do the first couple of projects on paper, as legit a drafting job as you can muster, then you'll be better prepared to pick a software package and know what it's supposed to do.
I dated an interior design major in college. Her capstone project was a mind-blowing kitchen designed in AutoCad (an early version at that). She knew what she was doing and worked in kitchen design for several years after college. Point being is that you need some training or online classes. The woodworking is the easy part. Designing is hard.
I use Cutlist to get my sheet layouts.
I don't do enough to warrant learning CAD. I draw layouts to scale on a good old fashioned drafting table using 24x36" paper on a roll. No need for expensive drafting paper.
I'm a symmetry nut, so I try to make as many cabinets the same size as possible. Also simplifies the building process.
I've built two kitchens in my life. One hickory and one painted. If I ever did it again, I would buy premade doors and drawer fronts.
Cabinets are all about the fit and finish, and this is where an amateur will have an issue.
I echo the use of sketchup. I do model joinery for some furniture, but never for kitchens (I am a one man cabinetry shop, probably doing a dozen kitchens a year? chiselplaneandsaw.ca )
I just pull up bases and boxes and draw doors and drawerfronts on them and put them in a simple room of walls and a floor. I had used sketchup for furniture design before I started building kitchens, but kitchens use only the simplest of sketchup tools. The model then gives the client a plan they can sign a contract for.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled