Cut Tenons on Radial Arm or Miter saw?
I was reading an older article on radial arm saws and near the end it talked about running a dado blade on a radial arm saw to cut tenons, rabbets and dadoes. I have been looking for a way to cut tenons, particularly on long stock. So after looking at and pricing several radial arm saws, including the ‘Original Saw Co.’ products, it crossed my mind that a sliding miter saw could do the same thing with medium width stock such as, say, door styles or window molding. Looking at several models I found some that have depth stops above the through-cut position and fairly long travel. Does anyone know if any sliding miter saw has an arbor long enough to accommodate, say a 3/4″ dado blade assembly? Anyone cut tenons or use a dado assembly on an Original Saw Co. saw?
red2erni
Portola Valley CA
Replies
Hi Red ,
Imo you would be better off using the TS or a RAS . The RAS has more stroke then a miter saw and a TS is unlimited and is how I cut mine .
I have cut dados on the RAS for certain applications , but prefer the TS .
You can cut tenons on the band saw as well .
dusty
You cannot put a dado blade on a miter saw! They will not accept a dado blade! I prefer a horizontal slot mortiser and loose tenons. Fastest and most accurate way to go, especially on long boards.
red,
I have cut many tenons on things like bedrails, using the radial arm saw. The dado head wants to grab hold and pull itself thru the cut if pulled into the stock. I set up a stop block, pull the saw forward, secure the stock against the stop block, then turn the saw on and push it back thru (against cutter rotation) to make the cut. It is much less harrowing this way. Just be safety conscious, and don't be tempted to reach around the moving dado cutter to move the stock into position. Turn the thing off first.
Ray
Ray
Ray (and others)Thanks for the information and experience on using the radial arm saw RAS. The RAS elevation seems like it is not as easy to get right as with the blade elevation on a TS at least on the RASs I've had. But it seems like not moving the part is a big improvement in many ways, IMHO. Your back cut is a nice improvement also. Do you back cut dadoes in sheet goods on the RAS also? Is there a dado set with a negative hook angle, as is now standard for SMS, that would not pull itself through? In any case, what I like for long and short boards alike is that the part isn't moving and can be clamped which also dampens the acoustics and improves the rightness and the cheek surface. Looking at some of the new 12" sliding miter saws (SMS) it seems like the rails and sliders are stiff enough to support a dado cut if the arbor were longer to take the dado cutter assembly and perhaps a depth of cut stop on the chop angle. That would be good value and differentiation for some OEM. Thanks for the safety reminder not to reach around! When I was an apprentice in metalworking, I worked for a tough old guy with a thick Scandinavian accent, who used to say;'to work safe, work straight,
to work straight, work smart,
to work smart, work clean,
and to work clean, work safe!'Regards, Red
red,
If the sheet goods aren't too wide, I back cut them. Usually, I dado on the tablesaw when I can, on the radial arm saw when I must.
Dunno about negative angle blades, I have the same dado set from Sears that I bought in '75... same for sliding miter saws, don't have one.
Re: reaching around, once worked with a fellow who had had a shirtsleeve ripped off by a drill press as he reached around to grab something off the rack behind it. He had some nice "stretch marks" on the inside of his bicep where the fabric of the shirt squeezed his arm before the seam gave way. He said it was a good thing the shirt had been washed many times, as the fabric had weakened.
Ray
Ray,Steve points out that most of the dado sets today have negative hook angles. Actually my question on that was a bit rhetorical. I did research and then buy two dado sets this year, the Amana 658040 and the SysteMatic 37160 which were both highly rated in a Fine Wood Working review, and which both have -5 deg hook angles, so they 'push back' a little, so to speak, instead of drawing the work into the cutters. After Steve's reply, I looked again and find the Forrest King sets have -12 deg. and the Freud DS500 series also have -12 deg. hook. But the Freud "Safety Series" SD300 has a + 20 deg. hook angle, albeit a novel implementation, so there is still some variation, even in the new high end stuff. Also, it's funny that you mention a seventies era Sears Dado, even more amazing that you still use it. Do you sharpen it yourself and was it a carbide or HSS set? The reason I ask is that, having outlived three Sears saws, two TSs and one RAS, I remembered I still have a seventies Sear "Adjustable Dado", the infamous model 3263. It was the first carbide woodworking saw blade I bought. It wobbled by design and shook the saw and the work, threw splinters, made a devil of a howl, chewed it's way through and smoked at the same time. Thinking about it, that dado scared me off of dado work for 30 years. So I went out to my garage just now and unburied it. It has an aggressive positive hook angle, I'd guess 15 deg. or more. Looks like it needs sharpening, even though I cut very few board feet. I remember my wife came out to see what all the noise was and if I'd hurt myself. I remember I also put on extra eye protection and heavier gloves before I gave up!! Well .. at least good old Sears had the push button socket sets (for awhile). So, to tell the truth, the RAS/dado/tenon question I asked in the first place was part of a thought train that led me to the 'Original Saw Co.' 12" RAS. What a beauty. Well time will tell if I can find enough reason (I'll need more than 3000 of them) to add that to my slowly expanding stationary tool set. But I bet you would really enjoy one of these new dado sets. Just face it, a guy with your skills and insight deserves a couple of great tools if you use them! Redred2erni
Portola Valley Ca.
hey red,
My dado set is a stacked type. High-speed steel, and it has been sharpened a few times. For no oftener than I use it, and the cost of a pretty, new, carbide model, I guess I'll put up with being out of touch with the times. Won't be the first time that has occurred!
For all the bad words I've read about the wobble heads, I used one for a time when working for another shop. I had no complaints with it. Must have been the only one ever made that met designers specs? Or my standards are so low that...
For what it's worth, my radial saw and drill press are both 70's era Sears Roebuck items. To top it all off, I have a sweet little Montgomery Ward's panel saw that I wouldn't trade for a pretty thing!
Take care,
Ray
Ray,My dad had a 'Monkey Wards' panel saw. He built quite a bunch of wooden boats with that and his sears TS and joiner. I remember when he came home with a 1/2" hand drill from Sears he had been dreaming about but he didn't have any drills that large! I learned to water ski behind those run-abouts on the Willamette. IMHO it is about how a tool feels when you touch it and use it, the satisfaction of the 'made' the 'making' and the 'may be'. I will be sure not to 'reach around' even though I ready with the 'thread bear' old shirts, they'r the best. Thanks again for the help.Regards,red
"Is there a dado set with a negative hook angle..."
I think all of the high-end dado sets have negative hook angle.
-Steve
It is not possible to mount Dados on a miter saw. Even if you did find a way mitersaws do not have the power. I have used a slider to cut tennons in a pinch on site and the results were not so good. I made several passes with the normal blade setting the depth stop to limit the cut. The arms on sliders are not rigid enough to maintain a consistant depth. RAS with a Dado head is very effective if your table is solid and stable.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
Mike. Of course you'r right, right now. But at least several 12" SMSs have 1 phase, 15 amps, the same as my (kinda punny) TS which does a good job swinging a sharp, nominal .5" wide, 8" Dado stack. Also, these new larger SMSs have pretty stiff sliders. What they don't have is arbor or safety shield capacity. I'm a tool builder in another trade, so it seems natural to me that the RAS and the SMS are converging. I talked to two folks at CPO Bosch. The first was a tech help guy. He was mortified by the safety issues and couldn't do enough to talk me out of the idea. He referred me to a product type who thought it worth while to pass the idea along. I don't know the armature/trunnion torque specification for out of plane deflection that would be required, but I'll bet the best SMSs are in the ball park of the lower end RASs today.red
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled