Replies

1. 
   garth | Nov 03, 2002 07:41am | #1

   I find it easier on stock that long to use a loose tenon.

   Garth

2. 
   Marcello | Nov 03, 2002 09:03am | #2

   Al,

   FW #156 has an article on making a queen size bed.  It has details, methods, and lots of verbage describing the process.  For the long rails the author uses loose tenons.

3. 
   fredsmart48 | Nov 03, 2002 09:35am | #3

   Lets see. you can do it like they use to a hand saw. skil saw just make mulital pass. Some use a band saw and a fence. jig for the router, radial arm saw.

4. 
   LeeEschen | Nov 03, 2002 10:31am | #4

   For the long rails, I suggest you use one of the many dismountable connectors available at almost any woodworking supply. Then the bed can be disassembled for moving.

   For you short rails, a 2HP or better routercan do a fine job of tenoning, but a weak router is worse than nothing. In that case, use a tenon saw and cut them by hand.

   --

   Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon

   On the Redwood Highway

1. 
   Marcello | Nov 04, 2002 07:15pm | #9

   Yes, you're right.  I should have qualified my response a little better -- I meant the rails at the head and foot boards.  If you don't use some type of breakaway hardware for the side rails, you'll never get that bed in thru the front door.  Hafele has some nice hardware for this application.

1. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 05, 2002 07:23pm | #10

   You think cutting 72 inch long wood for tenions is hard, try it with 226 inch long pieces  (or the really long 240 inch pieces I used in the bridge)  actually Mikita makes a toool for those larger pieces and if you have $2500.00 you too can have one!

1. 
   Marcello | Nov 05, 2002 07:47pm | #11

   If I ever have the need to cut them on something that long I think I would do it by hand, unless there are dozens of them to do - then the $2500 is warranted and can be charged to the job.  I'll start saving just in case {;-).

   I am glad you emailed me 'cause I have been thinking of your timber frame.  It would be cool to see the process you are going thru in constructing it.  Seems like with all the jointing you have been doing and the problems you have been experiencing on something that big it would be educational for everyone to understand it first hand from you.  What do you think?  Maybe you can start a new thread with it.  I know fine woodworking deals mostly with furniture but seems to me you are applying some of those concepts to a gigantic scale - joinery, sanding, finishing.  Certainly wood movement is a lot bigger issue with you there, how are you dealing with it? Maybe the Post Police would like to chime in if this is out of line.  Just a thought.  If anything, I would like to see some photographs of your work in progress, you can email me direct by checking the box at the bottom of the "reply" window.

   Marcello

1. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 05, 2002 08:30pm | #12

   I do post about the timberframe,

     Over at finehomebuilding, breaktime, under fests.  Just read what the wacko has been up to lately...

     Kinda wish I could post pictures though!

     And actually I have done hundreds of tenions so far, all by hand and all just a little differant from perfection...

     You should see the tool I use to cut the mortice pockets though!

2. 
   Marcello | Nov 05, 2002 08:42pm | #13

   "You should see the tool I use to cut the mortice pockets though!"

   I can only imagine.

   I'll check the fine homebuilding forum.

5. 
   BG | Nov 03, 2002 01:46pm | #5

   The router works well for me with all my tenon cutting.  I made a template with a straight edge and an attached piece of 1/4' plywood. I ran the router with a half inch bit along the straight edge.  I mark my cut line on the boards, clamp them together, attach the template at the cut line and go at it.  The only issue is with long tenons I may need to do it in stages.  Good luck

1. 
   woodctr | Nov 04, 2002 05:08pm | #8

   Thanks to everyone for their advice.  I am using metal connectors from Rocklers for the rails, it was the head and foot rails that I was having a hard time with.  I made a template as you suggested and the last two came out  a lot better looking than the first.  Thanks again for the help.

6. 
   ian | Nov 03, 2002 02:16pm | #6

   I agree with the others.  Tenon the head and foot rail but not the long rail.   Recently build Jeff Miller's sleigh bed.  To connect the long rails to the head and foot board used two dowels (to align the joint) and a bolt (for strength) that threads into a nut recessed into the tenon at either end of head and foot board rails.  You will need a jig to position the dowell and bolt holes at the end of each rail and on each leg.  Dry assemble the head and foot boards and drill the tenons to position the captured nut. 

   good luck

   Ian

7. 
   RSRose | Nov 03, 2002 09:12pm | #7

   Al,

   I use a tenon cutting jig on the table saw of the type used by Tage Frid. It's nothing but a plywood jig - an "h" viewed from the operator's position which fits over the rip fence. The high part of the "h" is the face which supports the piece. There is a vertical strip on the face to orient the piece vertically at right angles to the saw table. The face on my jig is 12" high. I have no trouble holding a 6' board using this jig. If necessary, the face could be made higher for even better control of the board.

   If that explanation is not clear enough, I could make a sketch and upload it.

   Rich

8. 
   ScottInMadtown | Nov 06, 2002 12:25am | #14

   How about a router and a precision adjustable fence?

1. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 06, 2002 02:12am | #15

   Nah!  waaaaayyyyyyyyy to safe!!!!!!!!!!!

     It's a chain morticer made by Mikita  This evil looking thing is clamped onto the timber and hoggs out the material like a super wide chain saw!  OSHA would have a heart attack if they saw this beast in action.  Gotta couple of other tools just for timberframing.  one looks a little like a Skil saw with a dado head, spits out cupic chunks of wood and leaves a nice smooth wire chase, the other is  a power handplane with a curved base.  That does two jobs, either smooths out curved surfaces or can be modified to give timbers the hand hewn look.  Not to mention two mikita 1806B's (Those are the 6 3/4 inch wide powered hand plane)  sometimes it's much easier to take the plane to the timber rather than the other way around...

     Timber framing has a whole new set of tools you can buy, for a serious toolaholic like myself that alone is justification to build a timber frame!!!!!!!!

1. 
   NormInFujino | Nov 07, 2002 02:19pm | #18

   Is it like this one?

   View Image

   Hmm, after a bit of looking around, I see that the Makita is advertised on the web as well (the one above is a larger model by Ryobi).

   View Image

   I'm shocked! This is one of the very rare cases where something Japanese made is cheaper in Japan than elsewhere. The catalog price for the Makita mortiser is 103,000 yen here in Japan, which would work out to a street price (15% discount) of 87,550; in dollars, that's only $717. In contrast, at the U.S. websites I've checked, it sells for $1500-$1700. Anybody wanna chain mortiser from Japan (of course, you'd have to use it on a step-down transformer 120-->100V).

   ". . .and only the stump or fishy part of him remained."

   Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township

   Edited 11/7/2002 6:55:22 AM ET by Norm in Fujino

1. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 07, 2002 07:23pm | #19

   Timberwolf tools sells it here for about that price!

1. 
   NormInFujino | Nov 07, 2002 07:42pm | #20

   >> Timberwolf tools sells it here for about that price!

   I don't know which price you're referring to, but that price is $1445 according to Timberwolf's Makita ad.  Can't believe it, but that's twice the Japan price.

   ". . .and only the stump or fishy part of him remained."

   Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township

2. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 07, 2002 07:49pm | #21

   Yeh but it's 110 volt!  of course it's not grounded except with a little clip on wire which I'm pretty certain isn't OSHA legal.......

3. 
   NormInFujino | Nov 07, 2002 08:05pm | #22

   You're probably right. Since they have such a small market volume, they have to double the price to pay for the cost of changing the motor voltage. --That's why I said stateside people could use a Japanese model if they were willing to run it through a stepdown transformer. I do the same thing, only in reverse, when I buy U.S. market appliances/tools and run them on Japanese 100V current.

   ". . .and only the stump or fishy part of him remained."

   Green Gables: A Contemplative Companion to Fujino Township

9. 
   JamesC67 | Nov 06, 2002 03:58am | #16

   I've used a  router, tablesaw but I prefer my radial arm saw for tenons but if I didn,t have either the tools or the room I think I'd probably make several passes with a skilsaw like some one else suggested only I,d cut the tenon a little oversized then use a good sharp chisel and shave a little material at a time to make it a snug fit. Good luck, I hope my $0.02worth may be of some help and remember its easier to take your time and take material off  then to try to put material back on...........Just my oppinion and you know what they say about oppions................. 

    JIM C       the "PUTTERIN YANKEE"woodworking shop

1. 
   woodctr | Nov 06, 2002 10:12pm | #17

   Thanks for all your help and advice.  I made the tenons with the router, however, it was not very easy.  The proof is how they will fit.  Hopefully by the time I tackle the next project, I'll at least have a plunge router.  Thanks again.

   AL