I’m in the market for a DC system for my small, one man shop.
After all that I have read, a cyclone system with a high efficiency filter is what I want to go with.
Can anyone here share their experiences with either Woodsucker or Oneida in terms of quality, noise level, efficiency of operation, after sales support, etc?
Also, what luck have people had with the home built “Wood” cyclone? I’ve seen a web site that tells of the modifications to the design that the author of the web page would make, but I’ve yet to hear, or read, of anyone’s first hand results after having built one.
Thanks.
Replies
I, too, was set to build the Wood cyclone and was unable to find anyone who actually built the thing, when I saw a post somewhere about the 2 hp Harbor Freight DC on sale for $119 (regular price about $200). It looks identical to the Grizzley 1.5 hp unit for $239, and from the 14A at 115V spec, it probably is 1.5 hp. I'll soon add a 1 micron top bag, I've already put a plastic garbage bag into the bottom bag, and I'll build a baffled enclosure around it to quiet it, although it's already quieter than most of my machines, and way quieter than a shop vac. If and when I get a planer, I'll use a garbage can pre-separator or cyclone, but for about $150 total with some hose so far, I've got no complaints. I still can't believe I bought anything from HF, but for $120 each, I may buy another one just for the spare motor and impeller. No regrets.
ps I have no connection to HF; I just saw people snapping them up like crazy and jumped in too, since I was in the market anyway.
Be seeing you...
Hey WoodButcher,
I'm in the same market as you. Have you been to this site: http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/index.html
Good info. Also, have talked to the guys at Woodsucker and they will help you design your system like Oneida. Don't know if they provide you with a drawing or not. I read on another site, believe it was http://www.woodworking.com, that the construction quality of Woodsucker was not up to Oneida. Don't know enough about the differences between the two 2 HP units to make an educated decision. Due to my small shop, the internal filter of the Oneida is a plus. Will keep you posted if I learn anything more.
Lance.
Edited 11/20/2002 3:36:45 PM ET by lancer
I am also searching for a cyclonic DC system for my basement shop. Last March at a WW show, I saw Blue Tornado's 102 Commercial system. Price and specs looked good. They also provide assistance with layout of the DC system. Anyone had any experience with these? They can be found at http://www.bluetornadocyclones.com/.
--Rob
Edited 11/21/2002 3:28:16 PM ET by Rob
Last year I bought a Oneida 1.5 hp cyclone system and spent several weeks installing it in my basement shop. I used metal pipe and fittings also bought from Onieda. (5" main run with 4" branches). The system was not cheap but the dust generated in the basement with a forced air heating system distibuting the dust throughout the house was more than I thought my wife should have to put up with (and she has been patient about it).
The system works well and I my overall experience with Onieda was good, they helped with the design ( I provided the shop layout and tool types/locations on a CAD drawing and they recommended the piping sizes, most of which I used although some I upgraded to larger size)
I used the book Woodshop Dust Control by Nagor Sand###### (don't have the spelling and never could pronounce the author's name) as a reference.
Overall I am very satisfied with the system. And althouth I could have bought a cabinet saw for the money spent on the entire dust collection system the reading I've done on fine wood particules over the long haul is not good for your lungs.
Oh, I also bought the silencer kit for the cyclone (makes a difference in the noise by a noticable amount) and wired a 24 v switch system for the 240 v motor so I could use standard toggle switches. My plan was to mount a micro switch from Radio Shack on each of the blast gates so when the gate was open the motor would come on but for now I just have one switch located in the center of the shop, which works pretty well.
Hope this helps in your decision.
I built this one for about $50.00 in materials and a day in the shop.
It's a shopnotes design an goes together faster than you might think.
Cutting the tin is a slice of cake with a set of aviation snips or better.
I don't even get dust to any extent in the DC. Hven't cleand the bag in more than 10 hours of continous use.
What you definitley need:
1. jigsaw or equivalent.
2. Table sawn or equal.
3.Tin snips or better.
4. Electric drill.
5. Silicone.
6. a pop riveter. Borrow you neigbours'.
Material as per Shopnotes
6. 2 or more beers for later today!
Gerome
Edited 11/22/2002 9:08:05 PM ET by 4333
4333
I couldn't find any info on your cyclone at the shopnotes site. Do you know where I might find plan info for that unit?Be seeing you...
I dug her out!
It is issue 13 Volume 3. -Shopnotes /Jan 1994.
http://www.backissuestore.com/backissuesstore/sn013.html
If you still have problems e-mail me.
Bob
Edited 11/22/2002 4:13:41 PM ET by 4333
The designer of the cyclone featured in ShopNotes was Jan Svec who is also the designer of the Wood Magazine cyclone. Jan left ShopNotes and went to Wood. The Wood design is very similar but a couple of years newer.
You can go to: http://woodstore.woodmall.com/ and then go to their "Downloadable Wood Plans" and get the latest plans and details.
Thanks, Howie and 4333. I have one of the two issues of Wood with that cyclone design, which I found by accident last night after asking 4333 about his design source. I was looking to use the cyclone as a pre-separator, since I already have a 2 hp DC (probably more like 1.5 hp, but it's got plenty of suck) with a 1 micron top bag and a garbage bag in the lower. I suppose I could canibalize it for the blower, but with the high quality bags I already have, I don't see why I couldn't just make it a 2-stage system, using the original DC bags and mounting as the second stage. It'll take up more room, but it's paid for.Be seeing you...
No reason not to use your existing DC as the suction power unit for a cyclone pre-separator. That's what most do.
I still suggest you download the plans from the Wood site. They include updated info not in the article and some spec changes if you use a larger suction unit. Also, Wood Magazine has a discussion group specific to Dust Collectors. Some who built the unit hang out there. Be sure to include a neutral vane in your cyclone to get maximum efficiency.
Here is a site where there is some good info also: http://home.pacbell.net/jdismuk/cyclone.html
Thanks for the additional info and links. I think I will spend the few bucks and get the updated plans. I don't know if my Harbor Freight 2 hp (yeah, right) DC has the cojones to drive the cyclone and ductwork, but if not I can always upgrade the blower in the future. It won't be wasted labor. Thanks again.Be seeing you...
I own the 1.5HP Oneida, and cannot say enough good things about it, and the organization in general.
For purposes of comparison, I run 6' of 6" to a branch to a 15' long 4" flex to my tablesaw, followed by another 6 feet of 5" to a 10' long 4" flex to my bandsaw, followed by 25' of 4" ductwork, including 4 90 degree large radius elbows out to my 6" jointer, 12.5" planer, and floor sweep.
So, in total, my planer and jointer are over 35' away from the cyclone, including a bunch of elbows, and I can run either tool, full bore, with _both_ gates open! This is, from what I have been told, a pretty impressive task.
Other anecdotal evidence, even though it makes me look like an idiot: At one point, I was doing heavy planing, and didn't notice my drum was full. In any case, I had filled the cyclone full enough, as it turns out, that it was completely packed all the way up to, and surrounding the filter. Of course, when I emptied the drum, it all fell out, _except the stuff packed around the filter_. I continued to use the tool for about another 3-4 months without noticing any degradation in performance (on a single tool) - it wasn't until I had a friend over and was showing off how it could handle both tools (and it didn't) that I investigated and found out it was packed. Again, filter completely surrounded by chips, and still able to handle any one single tool... And yes, I now keep a much closer eye on how full my drum is. :)
As for service, I sent over a schematic of how my shop was laid out, complete with all tool dust port locations as well as MANY restrictions on where I could run the ductwork (my shop is in my basement, and thus I have water, electrical, and heating lines to deal with). The called me to confirm receipt, asked a couple of questions, and then produced a full parts list and installation diagram for me, all in a matter of a day or two! I had questions, they had answers. I needed prices, a list showed up the next day, along with recommendations, based on the tools, of what I should plumb first.
When I actually took delivery of my collector (I picked my collector up in person since I was passing by), I met my sales contact as well as almost all of the rest of the staff (it was around Christmas, but most of them were there!), got a tour of their facility, and then had a great deal of help loading all the components into my Explorer.
As I mentioned, in general, their product is second to none, and I haven't met a better group of folks to deal with from a customer standpoint...
In the interest of full disclosure, I have NO affiliation with Oneida other than owning their cyclone.
Doug
I built the cyclone based on the Wood plans, but mine is modified for more efficiency. It really sucks!
You can see it at http://community.webshots.com/user/cna_cna
I should have some updated pictures of it installed this weekend.
Chuck,
I'm very interested in your modifications to the Wood Mag. cyclone design. Where did you come up with the ramp design? What size HP is your motor going to be.
I built the original cyclone with the 1-1/2 hp Penn State motor and was wondering if your design would increase my cyclone's suction.
I'll be interested in what your ductwork looks like and how you connect the rectangular inlet."He who is not busy being born, is busy dying." Bob Dylan
I got a lot of info from Bill's Cyclone Dust Collector Research page, http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/
This is the best site on the net I have found concerning cyclone design. He has a spreadsheet to download for calculating the dimensions of a very efficient cyclone.
I have a 240V, 2hp motor/impeller. It came off of a ShopFox DC. My cyclone is 18" in diameter.
I cobbled up a 6" round to square register outlet I found at Home Depot. That was a lot easier than making an adaptor from scratch. I soldered it into place, put on some Bondo to dress up the seams, then used hammered silver paint to make it look purty.
I should not just say I. Another much more experienced woodworker than I, Larry, worked with me building a pair of cyclones.
The square input and air ramp is what really increases the efficiency. It gets the air going in the correct path, instead of having to find it's own in most systems. Bill states that the performance of this design is approximately double of theWood plans alone. I sure would like to compare my system to a similar hp and sized system. But be warned, making the air ramp is a real pain. Laying out a spiral ramp on a flat sheet of paper was tough. I never really got it right. After I finally got the air ramp fitted in, I asked Bill, the author of the above site how he made his ramp. This is what he sent me.
"I fitted two air ramps. My first was a real pain with lots of trimming. I then realized that if you unwrapped both the outer and outlet cylinders, the places where the air ramp touches is the diagonal to a right triangle. The height is the height of the rectangular inlet. The width of that triangle is the circumference of the circle. The diagonals give the circumferences of the two circles that make up the two concentric circles that define the donut shape of the inlet. The last one I made this way as well as a number of others all came out right on with one problem. The inlet really needs to be angled to match the seam on the outer cylinder and air outlet cylinder. The easy way to do that was shown to me by a metal worker who used a single piece to make the outer cylinder and air inlet. He simply folded the inlet from the bottom. I've not tried making one like that, so did not want to change the picture until I give it a try.
Regardless, I think you will be happy with the resulting performance. I'm hearing roughly twice as good as those who used the Wood plans exclusively. Do make sure you use 6" ducting right to your machines for maximum airflow because 4" pipe is limited to about 450 CFM and 5" to about 550 CFM because of the size of the pipe. "
I took mine apart after hearing about this and modified the flow so the air could not crash into the inlet and dampen the velocity. I just cut a vane of sheet metal that sends the air down instead or allowing it to sweep around the chamber. A little silicone and 3 rivets. !!!
Subjectively, as I did not measure it , it seems to be improved.
Sure wont hurt anything at worst. <g>
bob
Edited 11/22/2002 9:09:21 PM ET by 4333
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