Replies

1. 
   dwyer | Feb 26, 2006 05:20am | #1

   Check out Bill Pentz's web page. He has done tremedous amount of research with cyclones and provides you with plans to build your own if you want. If you take the time to study his information you will be able to make a better comparison on you own as to what works and what don't. I'm in the process of building his cyclone and hope to have it up and running in a month or so. Check Bill's site http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/CyclonePlan.cfm

1. 
   mike802 | Feb 26, 2006 10:35pm | #4

   Thanks dwyer, The site you recommenced is excellent. I spent several hours there and have only scratched the surface.  I am very grateful to you and everyone else for helping me with this. I have decided to build my own cyclone from Bill Pent's site.  Bill should be commended for his efforts, I to believed cyclones from these companies would protect my health, fortunately I still have my health and would like to keep it! once again thanks to all.

1. 
   markwillson | Feb 28, 2006 03:31am | #5

   Hi  Mike , I'm finally  setting up my dream shop and I am wanting to run my ducts under a heated concrete floor. Not having the ducts running up to the ceiling would be a treat. Do you have any advice on this idea. I hear that plastic piping causes an electrical charge ....

1. 
   mike802 | Mar 01, 2006 01:01am | #6

   Hi Mark:
   I have never installed ductwork under concrete, but I have installed drain pipe under concrete and I would imagine it would be the same. You have to make sure your duct is below your peastone, insulation and wire mesh, but your duct should also be well surrounded by peastone to protect it from heaving due to frost. I don't know were you live, but here in Vermont frost is a major concern. Your local building codes should advise you on how much stone is required. I would think having your duct under the floor would be very convenient, but make sure you have a well thought out shop plan because any major changes, or additions will become impossible without going above ground with your duct. I watched an episode of Myth Busters were they tried to explode a piece of PVC pipe by filling it with LPG and generating a static electric charge. They were unable to make the pipe explode by only using static electricity. Bill Pentz has an excellent web site at - http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/CyclonePlan.cfm This site should answer all your questions and concerns pertaining to which material to use for your duct. I hope this helps Mark and good luck with your new shop!

2. 
   DougF | Mar 01, 2006 06:17pm | #8

   If you run the pipe underground, the PVC is automatically grounded although the danger from static charge explosions/fires with PVC has been demonstrated to be more myth than reality.  For machinery not set close to a wall, I would be more concerned about the permanence of the duct locations with underground: once you set them in place you are really committed to the layout.  The same is true when you run your electrical underground rather than utilizing overhead outlets.  I had this same discussion with the Oneida ductwork design person and they explained that the system is more efficient when the duct is overhead.  I don't pretend to understand all of the reasoning behind their recommendation but I accept that they are pretty expert at what they do.  I can't speak for others but in the four years with my current shop I have made major changes twice that would have been impossible if my duct work was underground.   

   Good luck and enjoy your new shop.

1. 
   highfigh | Mar 01, 2006 06:35pm | #9

   If the PVC is underground, only the outside of the pipe is grounded, not the inside where the sawdust is. Use a multi-meter to see how well PVC conducts electricity by checking for continuity. RE: the sawdust combustion issue- the guys on a local radio show had people calling in about jobsite accidents and one caller was doing jobsite cleanup, so he decided to burn the lumber scraps and other stuff he swept up, by starting a small fire in a steel barrel. He dumped a shovel load of small scraps and mostly sawdust in and the dust started flying up because of the convection, then the fire just climbed out of the barrel and up, into the cloud of sawdust till it was all burning. He said it looked really cool, but would rather have been farther away. The danger with sawdust in a collection system is that if it's in a partially enclosed space and it actually does ignite, the fire is going to try to go to an open space in a big hurry. As I have said before, if I use plastic pipe or tubing, I'll err on the side of safety and run a ground wire. Once I change to steel, it's a moot point.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

3. 
   SantaFeTom | Mar 01, 2006 06:35pm | #10

   Mark, When I built my shop, I had the same goal as you so I had the floor poured with a trench for both ducting and electrical supply. I left a quarter inch deep lip at the top and covered the trench with a 1/4" aluminum plate. It was a good idea but I figured the size of the trench based on 4" ducting and 4" turned out to be too small for my table saw. I really need 6" ducting but now can't fit it in the trench. Don't make that mistake.Re: plastic and grounding, my first attempt at ducting was 4" plastic with a copper grounding wire. Because I could never find an answer for how closely to space the copper wire if I wrapped it around the ducting, I decided to run it in the inside of the pipe. It worked for grounding but constantly caused blockages to form. I still don't know how closely to wrap the wires on the outside but I highly discourage putting the wire in the inside. If possible, go with steel ducting.BTW, I know of a good source for cheap used 4" plastic ducting and some used grounding wire. :-)...tom

2. 
   Dave45 | Feb 26, 2006 05:40pm | #2

   Everybody lies a little bit regarding the efficiency of their DC systems - lol.  Your collection layout will also have a huge impact on how well your system works.  Short runs, minimal bends, and smooth wall ducting make a big difference, too.

   Good blast gates make a big difference.  I use the cheap plastic gates and have to clean out the gate channels periodically so they will close completely.  Even a small opening in an unused gate can really "starve" the effectiveness of the gate you're using.

3. 
   SantaFeTom | Feb 26, 2006 06:55pm | #3

   I don't have any opinion on Grizzly vs. Onida but whatever you do, put in the right size ducts and use steel if possible. I installed 4" plastic ducts throughout my shop for use with a Jet 2HP collector. I still had a big dust problem. I then found the site

   http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

   and discovered that I needed bigger ducts. Moving to a 20" surface planer with a 5" port forced me to replace the 4" ducts and I went with 6" steel ducts.

   Following the recommendation on that site, I either modified the single ports of my machines to be 6" or added second 4" ports. Now there is no sawdust buildup on my bandsaw (I added a second 4" port and increased the air intake into the machine). My router table is virtually dust free (I now have a 4" port at the back of the bit and a 4" port into the router compartment).

   I do have a new problem though. I now move so much air that course dust that use to fall to bottom of the collector now gets draw into the pleated filter so I have to remove it and knock out the dust frequently.

   A good, though expensive, source of ducting is

   http://www.ductincorporated.com/

4. 
   JayS | Mar 01, 2006 05:30am | #7

   I bought the Grizzly 2 HP cyclone and use it in a home shop.  It has much more power than the 2HP standard type dust collector I had used previously and more than enough power to take care of machines 25 feet away from it. I did initially receive a defective motor and had to replace the motor.  Also the assembly was cumbersome because it is so top heavy that it did (as the instructions say), take 3 people to stand it up. I bought the stand rather than the wall mount, which I think would be close to impossible to set up since it weighs over 300 lbs.) I use 6 inch HVAC duct as a main line, with reducers to 4 inch HVAC pipe and finally a short segment of flex hose at the machines.  I run a Powermatic 15 inch planer and a 6 inch jointer on the system with no trouble.  I am using the cheap plastic blast gates and losing some air due to incomplete closure and still not had enough loss of ssuction to matter.  I have even inadvertantly left 2 gates open and it still seems to pick up all the chips.  I does not seem to separtate very well, in that very little fine dust ends up in the collection bag meaning that I guess it ends up in the bin under the cylcone, but I don't care, as long as it's not getting back into the air.  I think the filtration is very good.  Overall once I replaced the motor, I've been pleased with it.  I would imagine the 5hp unit would be much stronger for industrial use.

   Jay

1. 
   mike802 | Mar 01, 2006 07:09pm | #11

   Hi Jay:
   I am glad you are happy with your grizzly. I was planning on spending a considerable amount on my dust collection as I wanted the best system for my health. I am planning on using Bill Pentz's design and locating it outside of my shop. Not only will this help reduce noise levels, but also any dusty air that may escape will not simply be pumped back into the shop. I also plan on surrounding the cyclone with a small shed to protect it from the elements, and to cut down on any noise for my neighbors. I also had trouble with a motor from Grizzly, I bought a band saw from them and ordered a 220 volt. The motor was wired for 110, but they took care of it quickly and I have not had any trouble.

1. 
   JayS | Mar 01, 2006 07:25pm | #12

   Mine is in a separate room to cut down on noise.  Penn state industries sells a muffler for cylones, which I considered but didn't have space for, since the thing is so tall it is up to within 6 inches of the rafters in my basement.  (This is a residential shop.)  I think, depending on the ambient humidity, you might be cutting down on the lifespan of any machine by putting it outdoors, even in an enclosure of some type.  If you live in the south or southeast especially, I would be reluctant because of rust of cast iron parts.

   Jay